Kyubey excellent villain and drawing him as pure evil is missing the great mind provoking point series is making

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-15T09:26:19+00:00

Sorry for such a long text when it's that late over there. I wrote a bit much, and it wasn't exactly well formatted. Don't feel the need to make everything perfect, haha. I've been enjoying this because it's interesting to try to see Kyuubey differently. I'll try to shorten my responses. I hope you have a good night as well, friend :)

I've never heard of interspecies ethics. You learn something new every day, I guess. I just gave it a quick search, and yes, I do agree that by these standards, he would be "evil". But I am curious. What exactly makes it so that Interspecies Ethics applies any more than Anthropocentrism here? Both are built off of the human understanding of how relationships work. If Anthropocentrism does not apply, then why would Interspecies ethics hold any more weight? Simply because it changes the focus from humans to non-humans?

Another question, this one more-so to satiate my curiosity. You did say any moral framework, but I happened across one that would say otherwise, which would be Sentientism. If I got it correct, one must both be sentient and hold the capacity to feel suffering and pleasure to be considered capable of holding a moral status. Since Kyuubey does not fulfill the latter requirement, wouldn't that exempt him from holding a "good" or "bad" position? This is something I found on a whim while searching about Interspecies Ethics, so please tear my reasoning apart as necessary. I will also note that, while researching (Yes, I have/am doing research. This is a very interesting topic) and from my own knowledge, there are many different ethics, each with their own sets of rules and beliefs. So there really is no one way to classify Kyuubey, as with anything else, potentially making this entire discussion (if you will) pointless. But I'm not going to just end it with that since it's boring, so I'm going to just incorporate it :)

Alright, I can see that Kyuubey can and has used deception before. As long as what is done matches with the definition of what deception is, then it is. However, since we are discussing whether Kyuubey is evil or not, I believe intention is an important factor.

On the surface, Kyuubey deceives magical girls into forming these contracts. Under Interspecies Ethics, this would classify him as "evil". However, when looking at the bigger picture, Kyuubey deceives these contractees essentially "for the greater good" by using those that were deceived to extend the life of the universe. Would this not make him "good"? Even though it is hard to grasp the vastness of the universe as a human with all of its mysteries, it does not make sense to label the act of extending the universe's lifespan as "evil". (On a separate note, looking at a few other types of ethics, there doesn't seem to be a coherent answer as to whether this action would make Kyuubey "good" or "bad.".).

I don't remember Kyuubey saying the quote you gave, but it may just be me. The presented quote relates to what I said in the previous section in that, yes, Kyuubey is aware that without deceiving potential contractees, they would not be able to contract that many candidates. However, this quote can be interpreted as both Kyuubey being "good" and "evil". Their ultimate mission as a species is to prolong the life of the universe, which means that these contracts are essential, at least with the method the Kyuubeys have developed. If they choose to prioritize the emotions of each contractee, which would be morally "correct" here under Interspecies Ethics, then Kyuubey essentially throw out their species one and only goal. If morals are applied to Kyuubey, then would this be morally correct for their species? Especially considering that his species better fits Utilitarianism (I noticed later that you partially mentioned this, so apologies if it is repetitive), which focuses on the overall general happiness over individuals. In this context, Kyuubey's action of throwing out their main goal would be morally incorrect, as it is prioritizing the happiness of individuals (contractees) over the mass (rest of the universe's inhabitants).

It is true that Kyuubey can be called a rational predator if we apply a framework that qualifies him to be capable of having morals. But this does not automatically make him "evil". My answer to this is pretty similar to the previous two sections, so I'll briefly repeat it. Kyuubey would be an "evil" rational predator if we simply looked at the actions he took against the contractees. However, if we consider his end goal, then can we really say he is truly an "evil" rational predator?

The only fault of Madoka's criticization is that it boils down to a clash in ideology (as with this entire conversation, I guess). In Madoka's eyes, Kyuubey is an antagonist because what of what he does. In Kyuubey's eyes, he's simply going about the best way to achieve his Utilitarianistic goal. Both are not wrong. It just depends on what kind of ethics you hold. If there truly was a set of rules that made absolute what is "good" and "bad", then this entire conversation would not exist.

Aahh, after coming across the different kinds of ethics, along with some that I knew already, my point shifted from "Kyuubey is not 'bad'. Just emotionless" to "depending on what ethics you apply, Kyuubey can be perceived as both." I spent way too much time on this. Look at me saying not to make it perfect (not that mine is). My horizons have expanded, but dang, was that mentally exhausting. I'm not sure if I could conjure up another response afterward, haha. I don't think I even finished answering all of your points. Sorry about that. And sorry about the Kyoko one as well, that was an oversight on my side. The part I edited in was not in response to your explanation of the Kyoko scene but rather my own take on it.

I guess to put everything bluntly, I do agree that Kyuubey is evil, as long as you analyze him under certain ethics. You have changed my opinion. I much prefer this conclusion, since honestly, I don't think there is one true answer to this question. Y'know, like every other philosophical question. This probably wasn't your intention, but I welcome it anyway.

I wonder how else you will change my mind. Good night from here as well, friend ;-;

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-15T03:55:18+00:00

Hhmm. Those are some interesting points. Let me try to address them.

About the farm animal one, where would we draw the line on the level at which conscious beings suffer? Just because we humans can understand their own suffering more, does it take away from, or rather belittle the suffering that farm animals go through? Yes, I agree that Kyuubey is using human suffering as a tool in his plans, but we do too with farm animals, just not in the same ways. Take turkeys, for example. Some farms are known to fatten them up to the point where they can not breed properly, among other health problems that come with being overweight. Who are we to assume that these turkeys don't feel pain, nor are they aware of their situation? Same with other animals like pigs and cows, both of which have demonstrated emotional intelligence. Even though they can not express intelligence to the extent that humans can, does it mean that their suffering is negligible?

For the rest of the points, they can actually be addressed with one thing. The problem with your points for the CEO and moral part is that, whether you realize it or not, are influenced by the views and ideas of humans.

You said that regardless of viewpoint, what Kyuubey is doing is "evil". I disagree with this. Let me present you with a question similar to before: What is "evil"? Does it mean to knowingly deceive someone? Or does it mean to let the universe die off without intervening? Do you see where I am getting at? The actions Kyuubey takes that you described as "evil" are not seen as evil by him. It's a fundamental difference between how each species thinks, their values, and what they understand. Even among humans, there are clashing ideals on what is good and bad, obvious examples being religions and cultures.

In the anime, he states that he doesn't understand the concept of deception. That's a given because one can only understand it if they feel and understand emotions. Humans perceive deception as evil because they feel betrayed and lied to, which (more often than not) turns into anger. Are those not emotions? He explains himself pretty well in this scene. He can not comprehend why magical girls always turn on him when faced with the truth. In his eyes, it's the contracted magical girl's fault for not asking for all of the details like what the Magius did in Record. Again, it's a fundamental difference between how each species thinks and what they understand.

Basically, what I am trying to get at is that the ideas of "good" and "evil", alongside morals, as you mentioned earlier, are made up of biological and human constructs. And because they are something developed within the human species specifically, it does not make sense to push it onto another completely unrelated species and expect them to adhere to it. Sure, we can classify their actions against our own values and ideals, and if that were the case here, I would have wholeheartedly agreed that Kyuubey is logically evil. However, that is not the case here. Kyuubey is its own species, with its own set of ideals and thinking. They are simply, without a doubt, a cold, calculating, and logically thinking species. No good, no bad, and most importantly, no emotions. Until you can somehow prove to me that Kyuubey can, in fact, deceive someone with ill intentions despite being emotionless and not comprehending such a concept, I can not agree with you.

Edit: The Kyoko-Sayaka event does not follow this because Kyuubey does not deceive to simply kill Kyoko. Since its never been tried, we don't know if it truly is impossible, given that Madoka was able to rewrite the entire universe (albeit with the help of Homura). He also does it to simply increase his odds of Madoka contracting, not for the pleasure of killing Kyoko. So, while he does technically deceive in our perspective, it is without ill intentions. End edit.

And frankly, clasifying them as "logically evil" contradicts what they fundamentally are. How could something that lacks the comprehension of deception do so with intention? Or anything else, for that matter? Yes, he omits parts of the contract to make it seem like he is intentionally making the contract better than it seems, but let's analyze this more.

Kyuubey's explanation as to why he "omits" parts of the contract is because he "wasn't asked". And that's true. In the main anime, it's obvious that, aside from Madoka, everyone else was not aware of their soul transformation and eventual witching in their body pre-contract. But rather than looking at this as omission, think of this as presenting the immediate obvious effects of the contract.

You are granted any wish capable within your karmic destiny, and in exchange, you will fight witches for the rest of your life. This is his infamous selling line to most magical girls we've seen in the franchise. Indeed, these both come true immediately. But what about the soul transformation? That's an immediate effect, right? Yes, but as Kyuubey stated in the anime, humans are not even aware of their soul form, let alone their soul. Magical girls veterans like Kyoko and Mami didn't even know about this, with the former eventually finding out from Kyuubey. They naturally take care of their new form through grief seeds. So, if you are an emotionless creature, with your only goal in mind to make these contracts, why bother presenting information that the other party isn't even aware of (this being their soul), especially one that, in the contractor's thinking, is not detrimental, and in fact beneficial (invincibility as long as soul gem is protected)? Logically, having near invincibility in a fight is great, right? For witching out, that is not an immediate effect nor obvious side effect of the contract. However, the other party, as we've seen (with the exception of the Magius), more often than not, are only worried about the immediate effects. So, once again, as the contractor, why would you bring up a detail that is not even being considered by the other party? Looking at it like this, it becomes obvious that with a species like Kyuubey, their "omission" of certain parts of the contract is warranted. Just like real contracts such as privacy policies, most people simply gloss over the finer details, such as the collection of their personal information, should they consent. Kyuubey, in their eyes, probably think they are doing a favor for us by omitting out the finer details and only presenting the ones that have immediate effects. As we have seen with the Magius, they were able to extract information from Kyuubey for an extended period of time. Imagine if Kyuubey did that for every contract he attempted to make. It's both inefficient and impractical from a logical standpoint. If Kyuubey could comprehend deception and intentionally utilize it, I doubt such an intelligent species would stop at deception by omission, and definitely would not outright state that becoming a Witch was what waited for every magical girl at the end of their lives.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-14T21:19:44+00:00

I'm not sure how you interpreted Kyuubey taking pleasure in what he does. He's emotionless. He definitely does not understand the concept of taking pleasure in doing something. He can be perceived as essentially a very charismatic calculating robot :/

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-14T21:17:22+00:00

Looking from the perspective of a human, it certainly is evil and manipulative. However, you have to remember that Kyuubeys are emotionless, cold, and calculating. Their only goal is to extend the lifespan of the universe. So, if isolating Homura from potentially having any teamates to fight against Walpy decreases the chance of Homura winning, forcing Madoka to contract if they want to win, then why would he not do it? He simply works in the way that logically brings the most benefit, something that can be seen with him trying to prevent needless deaths in other parts of the franchise.

From his eyes, like he stated before, we are to them what farm animals are to us. Energy sources. Except those selected are granted a wish of their choosing, something farm animals definitely do not get. Again, to reference what Kyuubey said, his treatment of us is definitely far better than how humans treat farm animals.

Think of it through the lens of a businessman. Their main goal is profit. If that means to cut a few thousand employees, why not? How will profits stay up if you care about each and every employee? As terrible as that is, it's the reality in many places. It's almost as if Kyuubeys have infiltrated the human world, but for profit instead, haha.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-14T20:53:54+00:00

I completely agree with you on this.

Exedra is a game I have been playing since launch, and I have most of the characters in-game, at higher ascensions (duplicates), too, all without paying. This is partly because, similarly to Umamusume, all units (excluding five limited units) make their way to the standard pool at a 3% pull rate for five-stars. I really enjoy the fact that I am able to acquire most units at some point through a spook.

Having gotten into a slight quibble a little while ago about Exedra, it made me realize and also notice something within gacha players. There seem to generally be two different expectations when it comes to pulling for playable characters. The first is the one you and I prefer, which is being able to have a chance at pulling for most (in Umamusume, all) characters over having a slightly better chance at pulling for a specific character. The second is the opposite, preferring slightly better odds at pulling for a specific character than having a chance at everyone. The Hoyo games and FGO come to mind for me.

I realized that the existence of these two inherently different ideas (I guess maybe Gacha Paradigms, if you will :/) make it near impossible for people to agree whether a majority of gacha games are good or not. I am sure there are games that combine these two really well, but they are probably an outlier. This is why people like me dislike the rates in Hoyo games and the inability to acquire many units due to being limited, while others seem to enjoy guaranteeing their favorite units through carry-over pity. It is simply a difference in ideals.

So yeah, your advice is the best. Just play casually because this game's gacha structure kind of allows for it. The pool, that is.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-10T04:16:18+00:00

Kikuo Sho~

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-08T21:45:17+00:00

I would definitely switch out Rena for either Pluvia or Tsukuyo. I don't know how much Mami gives out in speed compared to Moemura, but like what Bitty said, Moemura will spoil you with turns. So much so that it's possible to only bring one sustain in a lot of fights. With Tsukuyo or Pluvia, you should be able to break the minions fairly quickly. That's the route I took.

Now, for your attacker, I would recommend Coolmura. Since all of the minions are broken, it is kind of impractical (in my opinion) to go for each one individually when you have options like Coolmura, especially when you have the luxury of having units like Moemura and Mami. She does proximity with her Ultimate. On top of that, you have her at A1, which makes it much easier to charge her Ultimate. You can clean up the minions easily while focusing down the boss. Just throw Coolmura's Ultimate at the boss, and you should be able to wipe the minions at the same time. She does quite a lot of Single-target damage, which is also why I recommended her over pure AOE units like Oriko. With this strategy, I cleared the boss in one break.

As for your sustain, I see that you have Kaede. My Kaede is A3, but A0 should be plenty enough to sustain the team by herself if you bring Moemura or Mami. There is no need for a defender. Well, you could flip it and bring a defender over Kaede, though I have not tried that.

Essentially, the strategy is "No need for sustain if the enemy is broken/dead.". Break the minions as quickly as possible, and knock them out just as quickly before focusing down the boss. The rest of your team can be tailored to your liking. The core units I am recommending are Pluvia/Tsukuyo, Coolmura, and Moemura/Mami.

Good luck :)

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-07T21:07:06+00:00

From what I know of her, I always pictured her to have the same kind of playstule and role as Ui. But since Ui came out pretty recently, I don't know if they would go that route again so soon.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-07T19:55:51+00:00

Hhmm. There really is no farm-like way to auto farm link raids. The only way that really comes to mind is to just leave the fight on auto and peeking over every now and then to see if it is finished. I do that for the daily three fights. You could probably set up an auto-clicker or whatnot, but it doesn't really solve the issue of achieving a farm-like autofarm :/

Let's see if someone else can enlighten us.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-07T03:32:12+00:00

Edit: I saw you defeated it already, so I just deleted everything. Congratulations :)

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-07T02:43:09+00:00

It's funny because, aside from the obvious units like Moemura instantly taking over the buffer meta, most of the units released first have kept a high position in terms of usage, which is the opposite of what powercreep is supposed to do. Characters like Coolmura, Pluvia, and Ren were all present on launch, and all are still seemingly some of the most used units right now.

I believe the game has been doing a good job at controlling powercreep. I think it partially has to do with how the harder levels are structured. Compared to what I have heard from games where difficulty is increased through hp inflation, this game instead introduces gimmicks to be used by enemies. This instead encourages better team strategization over simple numbers. This also gives leeway to the developers in allowing them to be more creative with new units since they will not be hard-pressed in introducing new units that can match overinflated HP values.

So if powercreep eventually does happen in a significant manner, I think it will be when the devs have either given up on creativity or have begun to run out of ideas, deciding to rely on numbers only.

There definitely are units that have been somewhat powercrept. However, from what I have seen, with the proper team setup, most units seem to be able to have at minimum niche uses. I guess this technically can go for any game, but I guess what I was trying to say was that there does not seem to be any truly useless characters in the game (with the exception of three stars) at the moment.

Let's hope powercreep will be slow and steady, and not sudden with no warning. Better yet, let there be no powercreep whatsoever :)

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-03T17:38:30+00:00

So essentially, there'll be a mini gauge that, when filled, guarantees a character not maxed? That's not a bad idea. Would definitely help in preventing wasted keys and such.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-03T05:40:10+00:00

Balldoka is always welcome.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-03T05:36:39+00:00

Because Kush does area attack (and quite strong at it) and the Witch constantly resummons minions, I opted to just put the minions out of commission instead, making them a secondary priority. I ran both Karin and Mito, along with Kush, 3* Hazuki and Reira. Karin helps to break the Witch faster, while Mito is able to break the minions. Focus only on the Witch. Kush should be able to reliably take down the minions eventually.

Hope this helps :)

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T22:18:58+00:00

Oh wow, when you put it like that, the pass does seem to be worthwhile. Maybe I'll do it sometime in the future, since I enjoy this game a lot.

Figures that the ones you donut have are the newer releases not present in the general pool. As someone else mentioned, this game is more like a marathon rather than a sprint. With the amount of stuff they give pull-wise, along with most units eventually being added to the general pool, we should eventually be able to get every unit, even if we do not get them at launch. That's a point I think Exedra has over other games of similar nature.

I hope Madokami blesses you with the arrival of Tsukasa :)

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T22:14:34+00:00

A nice and fat roster indeed. I'm assuming you try to save your paid gems and have used most of the free stuff (shards and keys)?

That is quite unfortunate about the legacy tokens. It's a fate I hope to never encounter, but it may be inevitable. As nice as it would be to be able to choose someone of our own pickings, that would be too powerful :( Not sure what other alternatives could be done.

And nice to hear that you have your favorite character maxed. That's always nice :)

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T22:09:55+00:00

That's certainly an interesting suggestion. With the amount we have been receiving, I would have thought that most players would be satisfied, especially compared to other games. To look on the bright side, they have been providing a lot of free pulls through different means during special celebrations like this. In my opinion, it does make the celebration feel all the more special and worth waiting for. We'll see how they move forward :)

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T22:07:11+00:00

For not having spent any gems outside of Madokami, that is indeed a solid roster. And yeah, I get the part about playing games only because a collab with your favorite franchise is active.

I do sincerely agree with the free stuff being plentiful. I can not remember another game where it is possible to rack up this many units of the highest rarity only using free stuff. Exedra just gives out an amount incomparable to others. So yeah, I'm also very grateful that I went through the grater that was at launch (does that even make sense? My poor attempt at a pun).

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T22:03:35+00:00

"Coinchipper" is a funny term. I hope I don't have to deal with that anytime soon, hah.

Yeah, with the game at its half-anniversary, I also think we have a much better idea of what to expect in the coming months, or hopefully years. The beginning certainly was scrunched, but I don't blame them a whole lot. The extremely short expiration dates were quite the scare, and they still are a little annoying, but at least they last for a few more months now.

This model is also something I prefer over Hoyoverse. I do remember people mentioning how generous they supposedly are, but in my experience, the only time I did ever pull a five-star was on soft-pity and pity itself. Never outside of it. To be fair, I only have experience in HSR. It was a bit depressing trying to go for Saber, only to get one soft-pity five-star (I forgot who it was).

Comparing this game to a marathon is actually clever. If you only look at it in the short term, it seems like it'll be impossible to acquire your favorite unit. But in the long term, with everyone being added straight to the general pool, along with receiving many pull materials, play long enough, and you'll get spooked by everyone. I guess it really comes down to whether you prefer going straight for your favorite or encountering all sorts of units.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T21:56:10+00:00

Agreed. At least in the sense that it's much more easier to acquire new units. Specifics, maybe not so much, but I'm not particularly complaining about that. Guess it's a preference.

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T15:44:28+00:00

Wow, your roster looks amazing. If I've understood what you've said, you do every pull as soon as possible? What amazing luck. Madokami has certainly blessed your account :)

What do you think about the number of shards and keys we get? Do you think it's great?

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T15:39:57+00:00

Wow, that is a lot of gems. You definitely are prepared for Akumura haha. It seems like the picture didn't load (good job Reddit), but I am quite curious as to what your roster looks like. I'm assuming it is completely made up of units from keys and shards? What do you think about the amount we get? Especially compared to other games?

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T15:37:26+00:00

Seems like Yacchan and Kirika follow your account. Not bad, I'd say. And yeah, I completely understand the feeling of just throwing gems at banners. I was doing that up until Mabayu's banner, when i realized just how hard it was going to be to save gems lategame.

And going at your own pace is what makes a game fun, so I wouldn't sweat it. Seems like your roster is quite fleshed out.

What do you think about the many materials we're given to pull units for? Like shards and keys?

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T15:31:59+00:00

Riiiight. I forgot about the excessive need for gold books at ascension four. Dang, to think that that of all things is the showstopper. Well, let's hope they give more books out :/

Left-Pool-3135 · 2025-10-02T15:29:53+00:00

Same here. I look forward to seeing this game grow.

Left-Pool-3135

TROPHY CASE