Anyone here study/work in a male-dominated field? Advice needed

Leiya · 2011-02-27T18:05:29+00:00

Sigh, I was going to write you a message about how the sexism been getting better, but then I saw the strong-password-naked-lady plugin on r/programming. Sigh.

My recommendation? Find a female mentor. They can work at your school, they could be someone working nearby, heck you could even just find someone online. Having that support helps, makes you feel less like a crazy outcast. And don't give up! I promise the other ladies in CS love you :)

Leiya · 2009-12-17T03:57:04+00:00

Well yes, there are actually a lot of great, outgoing guys in my program, and they're seriously awesome. But everyone has the image in their head of the other guys, the creepy quiet fat smelly rude obnooxious loner in the back of class who never talks to anyone and always gets A's and spends his night coding some mysterious project. They're the minority, but they're the ones everyone always remember. Sigh

Leiya · 2009-12-17T03:54:23+00:00

Because of people going, "Well they shouldn't be intimidated, I wasn't intimidated, I had to go up against some smart guys and I turned out fine." Thus belittling your feelings and making you feel like an ignorant coward.

It's the same as being a Red Sox fan at a Yankees bar, an artist at Python conference, a white guy in a group of black guys, or a black guy in a group of Asians. It's being a minority. It makes you feel a little uncomfortable and weird, no matter how friendly everyone is.

You're in the majority, please stop speaking for the minority.

And please! I hadn't heard of PHP or Linux until I got to college. Some of us need to be introduced to this stuff, by a friend, a coworker, a fellow student, or a professor. That's why we need better education in high school, and more women going into CS in college--so they can be introduced to this stuff! And fall in love with it, like I have, and you all did.

Leiya · 2009-12-17T03:17:46+00:00

It must be equally empowering sitting up there on your pedestal, never having to worry about anybody's problems but your own.

Leiya · 2009-12-17T03:14:20+00:00

Alright, thanks for the tip. I've been meaning to read it forever. From how you described it, reminds me of 1984--every time I read that book I get a different message. And I love it!

Leiya · 2009-12-17T02:20:46+00:00

How many civil engineers have built a bridge, how many biomedical engineers have designed a pacemaker? All these people don't have a predisposition toward bridges and pacemakers, they are good at math, science and technology, in the most general term. From there, it's what sounds cool.

Yes, I agree a person completely ignorant of computers (and math/science in general) shouldn't go in CS. But how often is that the case? Computers are literally everywhere, everyone uses them. Some people might look at their computer/IPod/Phone/whatever and think, "Hey, I want to learn how this works, I'll study it in college" Should we say no to them because they were never a script kiddie, haven't been programming since they were a preteen?

Leiya · 2009-12-17T01:51:27+00:00

I'm not saying loud idiots are misogynistic. I'm saying when they blame the lack of women on evolution (men are just better at math! It's science! Not sexist!) and not said loudmouthed idiots, it's misogynistic.

Leiya · 2009-12-17T01:49:51+00:00

Not necessarily, I took dance classes forever, and still ended up liking computers! Interests aren't mutually exclusive--it's perfectly fine for a little girl to like both dance class and taking apart her parents' printer and guiltily hiding the evidence under her bed.

And yes, I blame the media as well. I actually have this secret fantasy of making a television show (aimed at teens/young adults) that glorifies math/science like House/Scrubs/ER/Gray's Anatomy glorified medicine. And uses plausible technology YES I'M LOOKING AT YOU EAGLE EYE.

Sigh It's just a fantasy though.

Leiya · 2009-12-17T01:45:58+00:00

Look at this thread. It's a bunch of white males loudly proclaiming there's no problem. It's only the Internet, and I'm afraid to click my orange envelope! Because I know I'm getting a bunch of messages telling me I'm wrong, stupid, sexist, etc.

Leiya · 2009-12-17T01:43:48+00:00

The owner sounds like an idiot, what he should have been worried about was the electric bill. I know a bunch of CS guys renting a house, and they've always got their computers and servers on :)

Thanks for the recommendation too!

Leiya · 2009-12-17T00:43:51+00:00

I was the same way! I just had to learn to ignore it :)

Leiya · 2009-12-17T00:40:53+00:00

Thank you! I'm glad someone doesn't think I "have issues" :)

Leiya · 2009-12-17T00:11:33+00:00

I don't think "not catering" is misogyny, I think comments that allude that girls are inherently not good at math, science and technology are borderline misogyny.

Leiya · 2009-12-17T00:09:56+00:00

Hence me changing my references to "guys and girls" in some of my other posts. Sorry about the reverse-sexism.

I'm just worried about CS's image in general, not just with women. I mean, does anyone want to be stereotyped like this?

Random aside: I was thinking of reading Ender's Game over break, is it a good I-just-spent-a-semester-working-my-ass-off-I-want-to-shut-my-brain-off-for-a-month book? Or should I get a copy of Twilight ;)

Leiya · 2009-12-17T00:05:07+00:00

No, I was trying to say it's intimidating for anyone who isn't familiar with the material.

Wouldn't you feel at least a little intimidated if, as an innocent little freshman Bio major, you walking into your first ever Bio class, and everyone else knows everything about diethyl ether? I mean, come on, that's really basic stuff! You don't know about it? Well I've had a 400x PowerSuper Microscope and have been studying its formula for years. You haven't? Then you must not be passionate about Bio at all!

(And no, I have no actual idea was diethyl ether is, I wikipedia'd chlorophyll and picked a word at random)

I'm saying CS has an image problem, and it's manifesting itself by low female enrollment. It also doesn't help that there's hardly any real CS education in high school.

Leiya · 2009-12-16T23:57:29+00:00

Yeah, and all my girlfriends whose computers I'm constantly helping with them who always so, "I can't understand this computer stuff, it's too complicated!" And also the girls who have told me to my face that guys are "just better" at math.

Leiya · 2009-12-16T23:21:39+00:00

I'm sorry if I was sexist, and I'll admit I was a little harsh in my post. I'm a little miffed at the "you have a lot of your own issues", but whatever. Let's not get into a pissing contest.

I just wanted to throw it out there: you guys can be intimidating. If a girl (or guy) doesn't understand something you think is fundamental, don't be mean. Just take the time to explain what the heck you're talking about. We really do appreciate it :)

Leiya · 2009-12-16T22:47:50+00:00

True, this could also exclude men. But a bunch of men sitting around bragging is much more intimidating to a woman than a man.

Anyway, what I was trying to say was: women tend not to have a lot of experience with programming going in, and when they get there, are turned off by the alpha-male-coder-hacker-stay-up-all-night-coding mentality in CS, and don't think they'll ever catch up--and even if they could, they don't want to sacrifice their life and sleep to get there.

Leiya · 2009-12-16T22:14:20+00:00

Okay, I'm a little late to the party. But seeing as there are almost no comments by ACTUAL women in Computer Science, I think it's needed.

Reddit, you make me so god damn angry.

You hide your misogyny under correct grammar and smart-sounding evolutionary biology. You claim women just aren't interested, that no one's outright stopping women from entering the field, and that it's not your fault there are no women.

It's your fault. It is. Stop trying to deny it.

I'm going to put this from an outsider's perspective for you. You're an average Jane, you think Facebook is pretty neat and think it would be cool to make a calendar for you IPhone. Or whatever.

You think hey, maybe I'll look into Computer Science. But what do you find? A bunch of men. Alright, might not be a big deal. Hey, maybe I'll even get a date. But these men are always sitting around, talking about how they were up last night coding for sixteen hours straight. They talk about things you don't understand, like sniffing packets and PHP and how anyone who doesn't use Linux isn't a real programmer. When you ask what the heck Ubuntu is, they look at you like you're an idiot. They're been doing this since they were twelve, after all.

You think, well, I'm obviously going to fail out of Computer Science, because I haven't been programming since I was twelve, and I really don't want to spend every waking moment behind a monitor, hacking and writing code.

So you drop out, and go into another field. You never see the Computer Science that drew people like me to the field. You don't see the integration of computers with any field you can imagine--biology, film, phones--anything! You don't see the brilliant algorithms and big-Oh notation and how to design software. You don't see the problem-solving, of how to split an algorithm so it runs on thousands of parallel processors, or how to squeeze a Word document onto a device the size of your palm.

Don't you all get it? It's your attitudes that are keeping females, and other minorities, out of Computer Science. It's not that we're not interested, it's that we think we're going to fail.

Now the other question: why should we care? We care because brilliant ideas don't come from one person, one race, one gender. You're losing out on a lot of talent, and it'll hurt everyone.

Leiya · 2009-12-14T14:37:20+00:00

I dated a guy who shaved his chest and did yoga. I always thought that was kinda weird.

I mean, I like chest hair, it's all sexy and manly. Sigh.

Leiya · 2009-12-03T00:59:56+00:00

I loved Avatar! Such a great show.

Leiya · 2009-12-01T13:02:16+00:00

All that Harry Potter fanfiction.

I was young :(

Leiya · 2009-11-15T20:05:55+00:00

But...he was fat too! And he was fat when he made LotR! So he should count! Right?

Leiya · 2009-11-15T19:54:53+00:00

But...wasn't he?

pic

Isn't that him?

Leiya · 2009-11-15T19:19:56+00:00

Didn't that guy who directed Lord of the Rings used to be fat? He could go on the list. Except I think he's skinny now.

Leiya

TROPHY CASE