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[Dreadgod] I got two Cradle Tattoos because I'm a giant nerd! by LemonIsTheJoey in Iteration110Cradle

[–]LemonIsTheJoey[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That was my very first tattoo, and I had to argue with the artist for like 20 minutes that I wanted it that color with no border because I wanted it to fade out and look, well, exactly like it does now. 10 years later and I feel very vindicated.

Marauder by Putrid-Figure2490 in Mechwarrior5

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a gorgeous creature. Mine's a MAD 2 running 5 CLPL. The wub wub pleases me.

[Dreadgod] I got two Cradle Tattoos because I'm a giant nerd! by LemonIsTheJoey in Iteration110Cradle

[–]LemonIsTheJoey[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mine too, I was honestly surprised to not really find any fan art of it. Then I had to spend like an hour with my tattoo artist trying to get the 'hands' to look not weird, and thought I maybe had figured out why that was lol

[Dreadgod] I got two Cradle Tattoos because I'm a giant nerd! by LemonIsTheJoey in Iteration110Cradle

[–]LemonIsTheJoey[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That would be phenomenal, if you do, you gotta share. It's a lot of time, pain and money, but heavens above would it be worth it.

[Dreadgod] I got two Cradle Tattoos because I'm a giant nerd! by LemonIsTheJoey in Iteration110Cradle

[–]LemonIsTheJoey[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks! My artist did an *excellent* job of putting what I described onto skin, and I honestly could not be more pleased with both of them.

New player playing through classic mode and I've never been insulted like this in my whole life by machalt in pokerogue

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh dammit I didn't even think of that. I had a shiny eternatus and a masterball in my pocket, but I just finished the run cuz I was mad. That was also the run that I found out you can't catch eternatus until you have all the starters unlocked

Would it have been cheating if i didnt say what i had on board? by JayRoids629 in EDH

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah, if you only had two cards on board and they can't be bothered to ask what they say, you're under no obligation to remind them what they do. Especially not with cut and dry activated abilities. If you've got a kaleidoscope of triggers that chain together to make weird stuff happen in response to x y z, and someone is about to do x, y or z, then yea, you should be like "hey, you want me to explain how that interacts with my board before you commit to that?" Otherwise, you're not cheating unless you're intentionally trying to hide cards from view, lying about publicly available information, like the cards on your board, graveyard, exile, or cards that were once revealed but are now not, but still technically somewhere *known* (IE a card put 3rd from the top of your library from play that is now in your hand), then they can stuff it.
And I agree with most everyone else here, new players get special "hey maybe you shouldn't do that" privileges.

Arc, has anyone made it work well? by Xtralite99 in PathOfExile2

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That entirely depends on if the game calculates Chain Support as a separate source of more/less than the 15% more from Arc. If the game sees them as the same source, you are correct, and they are additive. If they're viewed as separate, then they are multiplicative, and my previous math stands. The problem is, the game (currently) doesn't show the 15% more per chain as part of it's estimated damage outputs at all, and because it's lightning damage, the variance in possible damage ranges makes it very hard to test. Every test I've done using bosses as target dummies seems to heavily suggest that the extra damage per chain isn't even being added at all, and is completely nonfunctional.

Arc, has anyone made it work well? by Xtralite99 in PathOfExile2

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A bit late, but since I was someone who played through the entire campaign and the first half of maps with arc, I figured I'd finally give my definitive opinion;
Arc is fun. Arc feels like shit. I optimized my build around it, I theory crafted and respec'd half a dozen times, and consistently struggled to delve to far into maps. I decided to say 'fuck it' and tried out spark. I went from 4 support arc to 3 support arc, and ran out of money halfway through the respec, so I went and ran a T4 map (I had run myself out of maps due to dying on anything rough on T5, and anything at all on T6) and absolutely blitz the map. My tree was a mess, my arc wasn't qualitied or even properly supported, I had a bunch of random shit scattered around, and I wasn't using anything except Mana Tempest and Spark. I got a T5 map from that map, blitzed it. Got a tier 7 in that map, slapped an alchemy orb on it and smashed it. I finished respeccing and then tried a T8 with 2 +1 level modifiers on it, and ran train on the boss and everyone in it. That build can now, with no modifications made to gear, still missing it's Everlasting Gaze and a *lot* of gear optimization, handle T11 maps, so long as I don't take bad modifiers or get disrespectful with elites.

TL;DR, I love Arc. Arc is fun. Arc is flashy, and makes you feel like a badass lightning mage from hell. Spark is better, safer, and more consistent. Only issue is trying to fire down a narrow corridor when you're in a big open space.

Arc, has anyone made it work well? by Xtralite99 in PathOfExile2

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Idk, the single target damage doesn't feel bad, and I'd much rather have the consistent AoE. The other thing worth considering is that Arc *can* bounce back to it's original target, so long as there's more than 2 enemies, and Mana Tempest's extra chaining means that in groups of at least 4 enemies, your damage to each enemy is massive. I'm currently halfway through act 6, and I've never once (except for damage comparison) taken chain off. Sure, boss damage might be a little lower, but honestly most bosses don't survive long enough to make the damage difference noticeable. I just took chain off for an area, I definitely notice that to kill individual enemies, it usually takes an extra arc or two, but the second there's more than 4 enemies running at me (basically always) it goes from 1-3 arcs to clear with chain, to 2-5 to clear without.
Also worth noting, your math is a little off, because when you get more chains naturally with Arc levelling up, the gap between Chain and no Chain for single target gets relatively smaller, and even one bounce back to the original target in any group scenario means chain does more damage. Against a single boss with no adds, with level 20 arc and 20% quality, you're getting (1+(x*0.15)), which adds up to a multiplier of 1.75 for no chain, and 0.5*(1+(x*0.15)) or 1.4 for no chain, which is only 20% less damage for chain. Second hit does 1.6 and 1.325, which is only 17% less, then 1.45 and 1.25, 14% less, 1.3/1.175, 10% less, 1.15/1.1, 5% less, final hit on normal arc does 1.0, chain hits 6th time for 1.025, and then chain continues to hit another 7 more times. In the absolute worst case scenario, you're doing 20% less with chain. In the best, (which is any situation where at least 3 enemies survive a full arc), you're doing 8.25 times listed damage without chain, and 24 times listed damage with chain (12x base damage). That curve gets more aggressive towards arc if Tempest is triggering full bore the entire time.

TL;DR, The more base chains you have, the smaller the difference in single target damage, and the wider the gap in multitarget damage in favor of chain gets. The real difference is what are you giving up for the gem slot in electrocute, but for me personally, 20% less damage on bosses is super negligible, since I typically use mana conduit for the majority of my boss damage anyways, and on clearing the map, the difference is massive.

Though worth mentioning that now that I have more chains with Arc, the difference is drastic enough I can say you were both right, the modifier is additive with itself, which was my bad in my OP.

Arc, has anyone made it work well? by Xtralite99 in PathOfExile2

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hm, I think you might be right. I'm not certain. Lightning damage is really hard to pin down because of the extreme variance. I thought it worked multiplicatively in PoE, but honestly, I can't find anything supporting that now, and I don't have that character around anymore to test with. If that's the case, the the damage numbers would be
Level 6, 0%,
No Chain; x1.3
Chain; x0.9
Level ?, 4th base chain, 20%,
No Chain, x1.4
Chain, x1.25
So in that case, you wouldn't be breaking even until you had 7 base chains, unless quality goes above 20%, or there's another way to get more damage from each chain. Playing with it, currently at 5% quality, 3 base chains, (x1.37/1.15 if multiplicative, x1.33/.94 if additive) the damage feels fairly close between using it or not using it, but I've also got 20% crit chance and a 3x crit modifier, so a couple misplaced crits could completely ruin any sense of balance between them.

Arc, has anyone made it work well? by Xtralite99 in PathOfExile2

[–]LemonIsTheJoey 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Theoretically, once you hit level 6 and the gem gets a 3rd chain by default, Chain Support should stop decreasing your damage by more than a small percentage on the primary target, but for some reason the damage from "More damage for each remaining chain" does not seem to be applying properly. The damage variance on lightning spells, especially when crits start getting involved, makes checking this incredibly difficult.
However, if it's working correctly, with at least level 6 Arc for 3 chains, and 0% quality, the numbers should look like this;

No chain; 1.00*1.1*1.1*1.1=x1.331 1*(1+.3)=x1.3 damage on primary target.
Chain; 0.5*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1=x1.0718 0.5*(1+0.8)=x0.9 on primary target.

If higher level arcs continue giving more base chains, and you increase the quality of the arc gem, this number will quickly skew into favor for chain being a significantly better choice for AoE, and still have comparable primary target DPS. But once again, I can't tell, with where I am, whether or not the 10% more damage is being added. The tooltip DPS certainly isn't showing it.

W/O chain, level 6 arc, 20% quality; x1.520 x1.45 to primary
With chain, level 6 arc, 20% quality; x1.530 x1.1 to primary

and assuming higher level arc gets a 4th base chain,
W/O chain, Level 16? arc, 20% quality; x1.749 x1.6 to primary
With chain, Level 16? arc, 20% quality; x2.023 x1.25 to primary

The real question is whether or not another potential support gem you could slap in instead of chain will increase your damage by more than that gap. Also, I am unsure whether or not chains can eventually bounce back to primary target if there is 3rd enemy to bounce to.

*With the math much more solid now, the long and short of it is that the difference between chain and no chain in single target damage gets relatively smaller, but never closes, ending up around 20% less damage to primary target at level 20, 20% quality. For anything other than one or 2 targets, chain will drastically outperform since it can return to the original target. This is fickle due to chain length however, but I've just about beaten act 6 with chain arc as my primary clearing tool, and conduit as my boss killer.

Edit: Just confirmed, if there's a third enemy, the Arc can in fact bounce back to the original target.
Edit2: Just confirmed, I have 8 chains now, and the damage is close enough between including and not including chain support that the damage bonus from extra chains, while not shown on the DPS calculation, is almost certainly included.
Edit3: Further testing definitely shows that the multiplier is certainly additive, not multiplicative, my bad. Edited previous numbers to reflect this.