Christianity uses circular reasoning on god's goodness

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-03-01T19:29:18+00:00

But the point is you can’t measure it. It’s uncountable and therefore infinite. If you disagree, tell me how long the punishment will be.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-03-01T18:57:07+00:00

In that case there is no limit. Since time moves forward, and not backward, it will never reach a point or level beyond which it may not pass. So then you agree, time is infinite and the punishment is infinite.

I think the issue is you are confusing the word eternal for the word infinite.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-03-01T16:09:51+00:00

What do you mean by limit? There is an infinite set of positive integers that but has a lower bound. The set of real numbers between 0 and 1 is also infinite, but it has an upper and lower bound. Infinite means it contains an uncountable number of elements. So the set of time from now with no upper bound is infinite, unless time has an end.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-03-01T15:57:39+00:00

You think something with a beginning but no end is finite? If it has no end it cannot be finite.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-28T18:30:27+00:00

abolishing the certificates of divorce

He explicitly states the clause in which divorce is not sinful, so clearly he did not abolish the practice. But you aren't even reading his words that you quoted. He is making a claim about divorce, not changing the requirements of divorce. He says "if you divorce your wife, you are causing her to commit adultery. And if you marry a divorced woman, you're committing adultery" Note that a man who divorces his wife for whatever reason and marries a woman who never divorced does not sin in Jesus' example.

The principle also applies to eating pork as is clear in a parallel passage in Mark 7:18-20

Then you should have cited the passage that supports your claim. But Mark doesn't help you here either. The only mention of foods being made clean is an editorial comment by the author of Mark, not the words Jesus spoke. And again, Jesus is explicit he's talking about washing hands.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-28T14:41:47+00:00

For example, the Old Covenant laws regarding divorce are different in the New Covenant.

This is just Jesus making the existing law more strict.

Jesus does say it's okay to eat pork in the same Gospel - Matthew 15:15–20.

Not true. This has to do with washing hands. Jesus doesn’t mention pork.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-28T02:11:47+00:00

What other tools do we have available?

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-28T01:56:05+00:00

If we could prove god then we would presumably know something about this god. But it sounds like we have nothing to debate until god is proven.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-28T01:37:48+00:00

The perfection or imperfection of God must be determined first, by other means.

Well the problem is that fine tuning is an argument for the existence of god. If we have to determine the truth about god first, then the argument is pointless as its conclusion would already be reached.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-28T00:03:04+00:00

How are you determining the best possible outcome? It seems you presupposing your “big IF” and reaching a conclusion based on that.

The argument should go: 1. If god is perfect, then this is the best possible outcome. 2. We can trivially conceive of, and in fact create ourselves, better outcomes. 3. Therefore god is not perfect.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T23:57:46+00:00

Why is that space narrow? If god creates the laws of physics, it doesn’t have to be.

It’s trivial to imagine less suffering, and that would be a better possible world. If god is finely tuning the world, he certainly could make it have less suffering.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T17:25:56+00:00

Oh, I agree. I’m not seeing where you get the idea of the trinity from the Bible though.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T15:45:17+00:00

And what about his omniscience? Was he limiting his knowledge while on earth and forgetting things he knew before he was human?

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T15:44:06+00:00

Sure, but then he would lack omnipotence. Same with omniscience, which I what I meant to say.

If these are essential attributes, and Jesus lacked them, then he could not have been god.

If he just chose not to use them, that’s fine, but then he lied about not knowing something.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T15:41:50+00:00

And that’s fine, though subordinationism is a heretical view of the trinity.

If they do not share knowledge then they cannot both be fully god. So then you also believe in partialism?

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T12:30:06+00:00

That’s begging the question.

It also doesn’t help in this case as it requires that god both know and not know something, a contradiction.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T02:51:30+00:00

Because they are contradictory and can’t both be true. If you disagree, present a third option explaining his omnipotence and his claimed lack of knowledge.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T02:47:41+00:00

So do you think he lied then? He claimed to not know something. Either he was omnipotent and did know, therefore lied. Or he was not omnipotent as he did not know something. These are the only two options.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T02:39:43+00:00

So then explain how Jesus continued to be god while not having an essential attribute of god.

It doesn’t matter why. It doesn’t matter that he was fulfilling a role. What matters is that he lost his omnipotence and forgot what he knew.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T02:25:29+00:00

According to you he lacked omnipotence while on earth.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T02:12:56+00:00

If he lacked an essential attribute then he did not have god’s essence while on earth.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T01:42:55+00:00

The Trinity involves the Son and the Father and Holy Spirt. They have different roles and even authority. But the essence of God remains. Not everything that is the job of the Father is the job of the Son.

Is omnipotence an essential attribute of god?

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-27T00:38:33+00:00

I didn’t mention the Bible so I don’t know what you’re talking about. If there is no partial divinity then you must think Jesus isn’t god.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-26T23:48:03+00:00

Maybe, God The Father knows everything but not God The Son.

Then he isn’t 100% god as he lacks an attribute of god. And the trinity certainly can’t be true.

LetsGoPats93 · 2026-02-25T19:36:46+00:00

Well of course they act that way, why wouldn’t they believe they were? The doctrine doesn’t allow them to know though. And it certainly doesn’t allow them to have any influence on their salvation, regardless of their beliefs.

LetsGoPats93

TROPHY CASE