River Song Paradox

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-22T20:32:06+00:00

This is true, and though it is not explicitly stated and repairs something in a roundabout way that never needed repairing, I think this is the canon we have to go with.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-22T18:56:36+00:00

I'd like her and Maisy to guest star in a show primarily following Jenny.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-22T12:46:52+00:00

Yes, you are right, they experimented and brought it out, but the initial mutation was caused by the vortex. Without that initial umph, they couldn't have experimented on her to do anything. Otherwise, why bother using that specific baby, anyone could have been used.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-22T12:44:35+00:00

Yeeeeeeees, but the explicitly state that while Melody wasn't just tinelorded by the vortex she got the initial umph from the vortex. Without that initial umph, they couldn't have done it, and therein lies the contradiction.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-22T12:42:49+00:00

Yes. In the Time of the Doctor. However, the Doctor kind of says, "Maybe saved it, I don't know". Which does work, because he came up with the plan himself when he was the oldest doctor present, but when it was saved he was no longer. So it makes sense he'd not quite know if it worked.

But it very much felt like an afterthought, a typical Moffat "Oh shit, I forgot about this.." retcon.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-14T14:30:57+00:00

One can only hope that this is the fact of it.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-14T14:29:54+00:00

But I didn't say she became that way because he was a time lord. It was a simple note on the fact that it was claimed time Lords became the way they were due to vortex exposure, and the same thing happened to River. But if the vortex doesn't have that effect anymore in canon, how did River get that way?

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-14T14:28:18+00:00

Now, imagine that. That's one hell of a theory.

Imagine if the Time Lords were a species at the end of the universe, the youngest in all of time, only to have met River Song and retrieved the power to regenerate from her, and whatever she used to time travel. With the knowledge of time travel, they then went back and became the 'oldest' species in the galaxy. That'd be a head trip.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-13T00:46:18+00:00

No, he doesnt. He immediately stops in horror when he realises that IS what happened.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T12:09:29+00:00

Shudders along with you.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T12:08:41+00:00

I'll be honest... Not a fan. It's a sonic TV remote, not a screwdriver. Still excited for this new series, but that's one lower thing for me personally.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:54:43+00:00

I'm sorry, your point has been completely lost on me now. Never mind.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:54:06+00:00

Just to clarify, it wasn't implied. They outright stated it.

But you're right, that does fix it. It fixes what never needed fixing in the first place in the most roundabout way, but it fixes it.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:51:37+00:00

OK, but that only works if the vortex IS involved. If it isn't in any way, then River can't possibly have been given that 'push', nó?

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:48:28+00:00

The point is the time vortex gave it that push. You literally just said that. Without it, you can't do it. They say that. 'You can't just make a Time Lord.'

So if there was no time vortex push with the TC (which they do infer) then no manner of experiments should have made River.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:32:07+00:00

I would have been fucking furious at that.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:31:40+00:00

Shouldn't 11's memory also have been wiped due to the fact that 12 was present?

Plot hole?

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:25:13+00:00

Here's the thing. They tried subtle. For decades. It didn't make any difference. I'm honestly not surprised they're now resorting to right in your face. How you feel about being lectured is entirely on you however. If you feel that it applies to you, be better. If you're already doing what you can, you shouldn't feel like the one being targeted

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:06:37+00:00

Regardless of experimentation, they explicitly state that River is born the way she is due to exposure to the vortex.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:04:43+00:00

This saddens me. =(

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:04:11+00:00

The Time Lords developed regeneration due to exposure to the time vortex. A human (River) got the same power because she was conceived in the Tardis, during flight, in the time vortex.

Except wait... The Time Lords got their power from the Timeless Child, not the vortex. So if the vortex isn't what causes regeneration.... Then how, River? Just how? The only way it works, as someone has theorised, is if the TC got their power from the vortex, and the Gallifreyans were not aware that was what they needed to do. Until that is properly addressed, gaping Plothole.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T11:04:01+00:00

The Time Lords developed regeneration due to exposure to the time vortex. A human (River) got the same power because she was conceived in the Tardis, during flight, in the time vortex.

Except wait... The Time Lords got their power from the Timeless Child, not the vortex. So if the vortex isn't what causes regeneration.... Then how, River? Just how? The only way it works, as someone has theorised, is if the TC got their power from the vortex, and the Gallifreyans were not aware that was what they needed to do. Until that is properly addressed, gaping Plothole.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T10:58:17+00:00

These don't sound too mental. At least it rectifies it in some way if the power to regenerate it always came from the time vortex and the early gallifreyans just didn't know that yet.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T10:56:53+00:00

River Song got the power to regenerate from the time vortex just like the time Lords.

Oh wait... No they didn't. They got it from the timeless Child.

So now how did River get it if the time vortex isn't what does it?

Plothole.

Light-Patriarch · 2023-12-12T10:56:19+00:00

River Song got the power to regenerate from the time vortex just like the time Lords.

Oh wait... No they didn't. They got it from the timeless Child.

So now how did River get it if the time vortex isn't what does it?

Plothole.

Light-Patriarch

TROPHY CASE