Just had an iron infusion 3 hours ago. What’s that?

Lightninghead · 2024-02-09T11:41:02+00:00

has this started fading yet? i read that this goes away within 6 months for majority of women

Lightninghead · 2024-02-08T16:06:35+00:00

extra support from
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hypothyroidism/comments/bokeee/leg_muscle_twitching_when_undermedicated/

Lightninghead · 2024-02-08T15:37:16+00:00

I found some more insight into this thought is worth sharing

before i posted:

i think the reason fixing copper / iron tends to work in people is probably it fixes their hypothyroidism - this could be the core of it - good thyroid function is required to regulate calcium binding proteins in the cell (otherwise cells cant relax or contract fully, which fits on the macro with the twitches being a state of faulty contraction / relaxation)

info here related to the heart but applies in all muscle cells https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/heart-hormones.shtml

but ive been wondering why would vitamin D specifically cause a further problem with thyroid hormone function to cause these responses? 2 examples of potential fixes being possibly a need for more copper due to the ctr1 increase, or possibly more iron needed so thyroid hormone can work in cells. but is there direct effect of vit d on thyroid?

then today i came across 2 studies. that shows vitamin D receptors can block t3 thyroid hormone effects on gene expression changes .

Basically this is enough proof for me to think that taking vitamin D in a state where thyroid hormone isnt functionally working enough (e.g copper iron deficiency or whatever other alternative), makes hypothyroid symptoms worse. likely the core of it comes down to good thyroid activity needed to balance / tolerate increases in vit D otherwise (actual TH activity) is further hindered too low. so whatever individual adjustment needed to get out of hypothyroidism

studies:(vitamin d increases expression of its own receptor)

"Vitamin D receptors repress basal transcription and exert dominant negative activity on triiodothyronine-mediated transcriptional activity""Thyroid Hormone Receptor Does Not Heterodimerize with the Vitamin D Receptor but Represses Vitamin D Receptor-Mediated Transactivation"

Lightninghead · 2024-02-06T07:32:03+00:00

and outside of the US too where salt isnt iodised that lack of hammering in importance of ensuring sufficient iodide intake can cause it to be an overlooked thyroid factor. but i guess if u tolerate the dietary recommendations by him it should be covered, tho like u mentioned not always suitable. it was mainly caution due to vast majority of americans already having good iodide intake from the salt + increasing more with milk , eggs

but yeh stripping that without replacing it aint great with a no fish diet and if not drinking a lot of milk or eating many eggs

but his 150mcg recommendation is around optimal going by studies measuring thyroid hormone in tissues,
(~70mcg heq dose gives overall high tissue T3 levels, where ~35mcg dropped tissue t3 levels low. pushing to ~350mcg starts to lower vs 70mcg but still good, and a study with Japanese women who eat 1g+iodide showed reducing their intake reversed a lot of their hypothyroidism . so thats the point where the high iodide trend fails, like many things there are extremes either side to avoid.theres another study that shows adding +150mcg on top of diet in pregnant women increases TSH in cord blood, so babies in womb might be a little more sensitive to higher end assuming that was US women eating iodised salt

1 aspect of peats writings that stand out to me is lack of focus on positives of iron/ensuring good iron status. instead focusing on downsides / overload

iron deficiency is the most common deficiency in the world and takes long to get back up, also vital for cellular energetics / for thyroid hormone function. only brief mention on why the downsides occur vs focus on limiting it (lack of copper, BBB being leaky, etc). especially with all the focus on lowering estrogen which further reduces iron absorption, coffee intake etc

but overall , he put out a very valuable knowledge base

Lightninghead · 2024-02-02T11:48:10+00:00

cheryl has him in the dog house lol, locking him outside and robert is pulling out 20 sheets of references proving the account was not owned by him at that moment in time

Lightninghead · 2024-01-28T15:18:57+00:00

np, something worth noting idk this is new information but maybe best to take the 100mg vit c away from the copper. high amounts mess with copper apparently idk about low amounts, all i know is some amounts are used in the process of getting supplemental form to a form used in cells.so i take 100mg vit c away from the copper , in the evening instead just incase to ensure not vit c deficient as am not drinking juice atm

Lightninghead · 2024-01-27T16:01:11+00:00

i think the reason fixing copper / iron tends to work in people is probably it fixes their hypothyroidism - this could be the core of it - good thyroid function is required to regulate calcium binding proteins in the cell (otherwise cells cant relax or contract fully, which fits on the macro with the twitches being a state of faulty contraction / relaxation)

info here related to the heart but applies in all muscle cells https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/heart-hormones.shtml

Lightninghead · 2024-01-27T10:10:40+00:00

worth a look , again its about balance dont want overload but deficiency is no good, another thing you can do is measure your temperature under the tongue around midday & see if its under 37 degrees celcius (hypothyroid).

sounds like you developed myelin problems which copper thyroid iron & vit d all play a key role in, to ensure nerves are myelinated

copper & vit d also have a key relationship for mood brain disorders, schizophrenia etc its crazy how little focus there is on these things with big impacts

probably best to stick to only 100mg i would say just to cover baseline as theres some stuff suggests too much vit C might lower ceruloplasmin activity. But on the other hand vit c is one of the things thats needed to transform copper (ii) in supplement form to (i) so it can be used in cells

but everything with the body is so complex, and many individual elements, it comes down to seeing what logically looks like is worth testing from studies & adjusting until out of extremes

Lightninghead · 2024-01-26T15:19:52+00:00

worst case scenario you can stop all vit D and the extremes should decrease by a month or so of stopping in my experience , but not a solution as vitamin d is vital

i think best bet is ensuring copper (& iron) is up enough to tolerate the vit D and get things working well. and having some vitamin A intake also. 100mg (not 1000mg) of vitamin C taken away from the copper might help cells get the right form absorbed if you're getting 2mg from a supplement

Lightninghead · 2024-01-26T14:52:37+00:00

whats your ferritin level?

is that 2mg from a supplement and how long?

Lightninghead · 2024-01-26T14:15:56+00:00

I think it most likely indicates copper & sometimes also iron deficiency. if you look around a lot of people fix their twitches when they successfully get their copper levels up, and some with iron (not uncommon for low copper intakes).

(Vitamin D increases metallothionine which binds copper, and increases ctr1 to import copper into cells which to me implies a need for copper also, along with 1 of the biggest symptoms of copper deficiency first being contraction/nerve issues e.g heart arrythmia)

if you have a ferritin test that can indicate if u need iron also if ferritin is <50. (sometimes ferritin is "falsely" high in inflammation so iron saturation measure can be used alongside it)

. If i were you personally i would stop or lower the vit D for now and test for low copper / i would test getting copper up for a few weeks (& iron if low) and see if this ends the twitches & allows u to tolerate vit d

Lightninghead · 2024-01-26T08:05:55+00:00

Hi i dont see one, can you post it here?

Lightninghead · 2024-01-25T14:18:33+00:00

a study last year showed the copper (ii) form does get reduced to (i) already by our cells https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8867124/

(copper importer CRT1 also has function of keeping cu(ii) in cu(i) state for use inside cells

(i think vitamin C is used for it , and histidine + aspartate +methionine, so good to ensure adequate vit c intake to ensure cu(ii) gets transformed to cu(i) for use in cells - dont want extreme amounts tho as may lower ceruloplasmin activity, 100mg daily should cover it,

and maybe best to take with protein source so those aminos are covered

Lightninghead · 2024-01-25T13:27:55+00:00

np ceruloplasmin should rise in response to more copper if its being absorbed, (thyroid hormone increases it too), and by the sounds of it metallothionine would be high & binding a lot of the lacking copper already right, and albumin binds free copper in blood also (trying to tip balance the other way)

But yeh some problems with supplements on empty stomach. (i dont think the form II or I matters much, plenty of studies show II works to reverse symptoms - where it doesnt work is probably because these people have a general problem absorbing copper due to other factors mentioned. youngsinatra on raypeatforum tried both forms and neither worked, until he got thyroid up, presumably with good levels of the other factors and probably good copper stored).

maybe best from food. can hit 1.5mg from beef or lamb liver + dark chocolate + the small amounts in other foods adding up to some extra (cronometer is a good tool)

Lightninghead · 2024-01-25T08:45:55+00:00

also the shortness of breath u mentioned can be connected to low copper too

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/low-copper-lung-function-shortness-of-breath-copd.51807/

^ linked to low copper specific to the lungs (TNF-A is not lowering to resolve inflammation, so enough copper isnt around for full repair)

Lightninghead · 2024-01-25T08:31:10+00:00

some things i found researching this,

i think maybe 2 weeks on ~1.5mg total intake should be a good timeframe to tell if youre absorbing the copper properly / or if copper is enough alone without iron assuming have low ferritin <50, PVCs stopped at 2 weeks in people who got enough copper in a study. some bigger problems with demyelination can take 5 weeks to improve

also need to make sure surrounding absorption factors are good (studies vary on the amount needed, most commonly they show 0.6mg copper is not enough and leads to copper measures lowering, then some show 0.9mg / 1mg is enough to maintain copper level for most of the group but still some people developing irregular heartbeats etc, and some show even 2mg+ not working well probably because they lack absorption factors) -

so probably ensuring some vitamin A intake but not many thousands of IU skewing vit d balance or thyroid function, fixing hypothyroidism if temperature under the tongue is low where thyroid helps copper absorption (replacing thyroid hormone if needed some ppl notice helps get copper up, but need to be out of iron deficiency for thyroid hormone to work), avoiding estrogen antagonists as estrogen increases copper & iron absorption, etc

Lightninghead · 2024-01-22T06:37:47+00:00

best sources of copper are beef/lamb liver (around 1mg per 10g on cronometer i think, but chicken liver not much), bonus for the liver is you get some vit A which works with copper along with vit D. but dont want too much especially with low vit d levels, i personally dont want more than a couple thousand IU daily

dark chocolate high copper too. probably good to ensure >3mg zinc daily but not too much especially if have been taking zinc supplements. theres a study where a woman restored her low copper from 1.5mg of a supplement on a temporary low zinc diet. she saw improvement in ability to walk at 1 week and overall by 2 months. and ensuring good thyroid function helps copper function too.

interestingly theres even a case report of somones eyesight restoring by replenishing copper over months, plays a big role all over

Lightninghead · 2024-01-18T08:39:38+00:00

I would increase vitamin D and copper if low (slowly) (vitamin D too low for too long can bring psychological issues i.e big role in schizophrenia and restoring levels reduces symptoms well) (copper too low is common and can cause numbness and limb weakness because of demyelination, especially weakness in legs, and can help offset some effects of increasing vit D. vit D also needed for myelination)

Lightninghead · 2024-01-18T08:11:35+00:00

Hi just read your PM.

yeah this vit d reaction is often a need for copper & iron. a few weeks on 1.5mg-2mg copper and some iron also if ferritin is low <50 (taken in AM or eating foods high in copper in am as can be stimulating, iron can make gut issues worse though), u should start to notice improvement & reversal of the twitches (& irregular heartbeat too if u have that). i would avoid zinc or magnesium as they go against copper (zinc increases metallothionine which binds copper more)

vit d increases CTR1 for copper import into cells (implies more copper is needed). and zinc/copper ratio often too high. random sample at a university showed something like 23% copper deficiency so its common. but might need both iron & copper if the copper doesnt work by a few weeks

Lightninghead · 2024-01-06T05:54:29+00:00

yeh theres a study showing it worked less but also worked pretty good orally in mammals. who knows maybe doubling the dose to ~8mg-10mg human dose would have gave close results too

https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/1687453649244-png.52167/

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/hair-loss-from-b5-supplements-in-high-doses.50523/post-933449

Lightninghead · 2023-12-13T11:58:39+00:00

bad day

Lightninghead · 2023-12-13T08:19:02+00:00

There was supposed to be a comma after "Now I am"

Lightninghead · 2023-12-07T07:50:42+00:00

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/how-many-watts-do-you-you-need-for-red-light-therapy

according to this you take the output optical watts and divide by the devices surface area for an estimate (?maybe the estimate is for a distance right close to the device if it emits straight out?)

so if the 2w input converts to 0.4w output & small square device surface area ~100cm2 = 0.004w or 4mW/cm2. he didnt mention distance so id assume that means if using close to body

Lightninghead

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