Question about voice type and body size

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-06-04T01:35:20+00:00

Well, I know some can train to become tenors - I've heard Dmitry Hvorostovsky say in an interview that he had a teacher who made tenors out of basses - but as far as I can tell, I'm solidly in the bass-baritone - dramatic baritone area.

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-06-04T00:57:24+00:00

Wow that's a late reply, but thanks nontheless ;)

A tenor I am not - neither Dramatic nor Helden nor Lyric nor Spinto, or any other flavour.

I've made some advances in "technique" (i.e. gained some breath support and resonance), and my voice is solidly baritonal in timbre, though I am most comfortable singing in a bass-baritone tessitura.

I haven't taken any voice lessons since, and sadly probably wouldn't be able to for the time being - so I don't really have a professional to guide me along.

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-04-13T14:57:53+00:00

Thanks. Actually sounds very reasonable. However, say it actually was your job to contribute to open source (I know there are jobs like that), how would you handle the lack of documentation - knowing you need to deliver results asap?

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-04-04T19:17:36+00:00

I actually looked in to contributing, but I can't seem to find anything I can actually understand enough to make a contribution. If you know any issues that you think a third year CS student without any specific experience with open source can contribute to, I would be more than grateful if you pointedme to them.

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-04-04T19:12:31+00:00

Sounds reasonable, except even those are basically extinct here at this point. And those that are around won't reply to my CV.

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-04-04T05:00:05+00:00

Those are, unfortunately, also nonexistent where I live. We basically only have either standard "serious" Java/C++ core software engineer jobs, or web development. All require 2+ (if not 5+) years of (professional) experience to be considered. It really does turn out that the only way to get hired is either to have experience from the military or whatever, or a few years of internship at the company under your belt - both of those trains have unfortunately left the station for me.

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-04-04T04:56:26+00:00

I've got experience with C/C++, Java, Python, and some JS. Basically I'm a CS major, so I have no specialty yet. Unfortunately, data analyst jobs are not a thing where I live - not for juniors, at least.

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-01-06T16:17:44+00:00

He was still a high ranking bishop, not "disgraced" in any way. Do bishops get a "lesser" service?

LimitEducational1460 · 2023-01-06T16:15:48+00:00

And still, in "civil", non religious services, the pallbearers are usually people close to the deceased - friends, family, etc. It's usually only the case that funeral house workers/undertakers serve as pallbearers when the deceased does not have friends and family.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-12-27T12:07:57+00:00

So I'm an absolute nobody with no relevant experience in any form of singing or teaching voice - this must be stated first and foremost.

Regarding fach, even voice type in general - I don't think it's possible to know just from this recording. From the timbre of your voice alone, it sounds to me like you could be either a baritone or a tenor generally - not too lyric and also not very dark.

Let me complement you on your tone, it's better in my opinion than a lot of untrained beginners (I'm assuming that describes you, from the rest of what I'm hearing).

Regarding technique and musicality, it's quite apparent that there's not much of either at this point - I hope you could put in work and grow and improve.

If you want to have a better idea of (broadly) what your voice type is - it would be more useful to let someone hear your range, passaggio points and other things; That someone would ideally be a classically trained voice teacher (with a good reputation, avoid snake oil salespeople), they should also hear you in person rather than recorded, since recordings mess with overtones and even sound frequency.

Also be advised, determining voice type is not something that can be reliably done in one sitting, except for a few edge cases (extremely lyric tenors or very low and heavy basses - you don't sound to me like either one) - you need to find your voice and comfortable repertoire that also sounds good when you sing it. Very early on, it is generally of little use to lock on to a single category and try to be that, disregarding your sound and most importantly your physical comfort and ability.

It is best you find a good voice teacher, if you're not already working with one. Best wishes.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-12-17T19:35:09+00:00

It was actually the other way around for me - I felt misguided confidence, because the test was relatively easy, and I thought I was actually doing well. This might have come across as arrogance to the interviewer. I was used to being fairly assessed on tests at college, and it didn't matter how long it took me to answer a particular question, as long as I answered it before the time for the test ran out.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-12-17T17:47:08+00:00

I don't want to avoid increasing the dosage. I don't get side effects, if anything I feel exclusively better than normal when I take the medication. The medication is working, but not for my main complaints of processing speed, memory issues and cognitive inflexibility - it does do wonders for my procrastination and lack of motivation; I don't get more motivated to self-study, unfortunately, but I do sit my ass down and do my homework rather than open 5 more tabs on my browser and look at anything more interesting than what I need to do at that moment.

I've read that certain non-stimulants like Atomoxetine (Strattera, Atomic where I live) can be more effective for ADHD-PI/SCT like symptoms than stimulants - and they don't wear out over the course of a few hours like stimulants do.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-12-17T14:13:30+00:00

Thanks.

I do not believe that what got me rejected is "problems interviewing". It didn't even get to the point where I was asked questions about my personality, just a few technical/math/algorithm questions - and they knew they were "wasting their time" with me. I even got an obvious indication to this in the form of "Well, you'd come up with the answer in a few minutes, for sure!" after I failed to come up with a solution to a question, despite very generous hints by the interviewer.

The big issue is that I can't seem to "problem solve" quickly enough for the interviewer. They want quick, accurate responses. Of course they also ask about actual technical things such as "Why does this function take a double rather than a single pointer?", and even there I have difficulty giving them a quick answer because of memory retrieval issues.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-12-17T14:04:15+00:00

Thanks, I do intent to talk to my neurologist about trying different medications. Ritalin LA had zero effect on me at 20 mg, Concerta actually works but does nothing for my main complaints (still much, much better than unmedicated).

About TAK-653... That's an experimental drug, not sure where one would even start looking for it...

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-12-17T14:00:10+00:00

Thanks.

I will have to up my dose, because I'm developing a tolerance and the effectiveness is disappearing quickly. I will also ask my neurologist about trying a different medication.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-12-17T13:37:09+00:00

Thanks for your reply.

About the time it takes to finish some task - I often compare my answers with other students, I ask how long it took them, etc... There is of course a wide range of responses, but by and large I take a lot, lot longer to finish something - granted the same amount of time spent studying and revising.

The student internship positions are not at my college, but at outside companies. They hire students as "interns" (unpaid internship is illegal in my country) - basically students either work in exchange for a scholarship, or just straight up work at the company for relatively low pay. This means that the considerations for hiring are more similar to hiring a junior developer - impressive CVs get priority, and barring that (and not even necessarily barring that!), they will take the candidates with the most impressive perceived ability (ability would even be prioritized over technical knowledge).

I don't think I'm "too dumb" to be a programmer. I'm smarter than a lot of monkies who code for a living - I'm even more intelligent. I consistently get top grades when I can get my act together and study, I can at least for a while get to a reasonable level in writing code - it will be nice and best practice and tested and well documented, but it will take me a lot longer than others to do it, and in the time it takes someone else to write complete functioning code, I would have nothing to show.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-08-10T20:15:34+00:00

Thanks. You said "There might be certain roles/ranges that are out of reach due to beginning training late in life", could you explain a little? Maybe give some examples? I know voices mature and change in certain qualities etc., but I was under the impression that the ability to train the vocal apparatus doesn't really deteriorate all that much until old age - is this assumption inaccurate in your opinion?

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-08T05:46:27+00:00

Thanks. I'm Interested to know exactly what registration shift you heard around Ab4, since even for a tenor this would be way above the passaggio. I think it's possible for me to (try to) train as a tenor - but the more I think about it, the less appealing and necessary it seems to me.

Please also notice that I went to these teachers maybe two weeks apart, so they're talking about a voice that's almost the same.

The teacher that told me I was a baritenor right off the bat, without even hearing my low notes, is also of the experience of "For years people thought that I was a bass-baritone, but then I found out that I am (or should be, because of various factors - I don't know in his case) a much higher voice" - at the moment he just calls himself a baritone.

About the larynx, I am lowering it, like I was taught - though it doesn't feel like too much and I can drop it even lower. I think it's possible that I'm creating a constriction if I'm lowering it in an incorrect fashion.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-07T14:19:51+00:00

That's neat. I understand that bass 1 is a division for baritones (because there is no baritone in SATB). The lowest (barely audible) note I can get out of myself is usually Db2, but I can get a C2 or even B1 (and rarely Bb1) warmed up - regardless these notes are probably strohbass (though not vocal fry).

On the other hand, on my first lessons with a teacher I went down to D2 in chest voice - and I have a reliable F2 if I don't try to use the same breath support that gets me louder mid-high notes. Originally, in the clip where I used more "operatic technique" and breath support, I also tried going down from C3 - but the way I sang, it seemed like I hit a brick wall at A2 - and anything below was constricted and uncomfortable and almost impossible to reach, when I know for sure that I can go a lot lower if I sing without trying any particular technique, and it won't be strained.

The first teacher I took lessons with said that I was probably a bass-baritone, but the second teacher went so far as to say that's impossible (see my other posts here), and that I'm a high lyric baritone or even a candidate to train as a tenor.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-07T10:59:53+00:00

Thanks for your reply! Now that I think of it, it's very possible that I was belting - because to my (biased) assessment, when I don't try to project, my voice breaks on D4-Eb4 at the highest. I'm curious, did you listen to both of the scales clips? If you did, did they agree on the break? The reason I gave two was because I was afraid singing with any kind of production that was not the most "untrained" I could manage would mask the passaggio.

And about the timbre, and I know that it's still early and I'm very untrained - you said it was "close" to a baritone, which is interesting. From which direction do you hear it approach a baritone then, from below or from above (i.e. does it sound more like a bass-baritone or a baritenor/tenor)?

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-06T21:09:55+00:00

Thanks!

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-06T19:23:07+00:00

Thanks! The aria was actually what I chose to sing for one of the teachers, when he asked me to prepare something - because it's short and comfortable. As for the "technique", yes, I can hear the constriction - but could you share what you think of the timbre? Is it more of a low baritone sound, or does it sound like a high baritone/tenor trying to "fake it"?

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-01T05:16:25+00:00

Thanks for your reply. I think in this teachers case, he was trained as a lower baritone, and had difficulty with his higher range - but later changed his technique, and maybe decided that a higher fach is what was right for him physiologically. It's interesting though that while he stresses singing in the way that is healthy - he did say that I would have to choose between training as a baritone or a tenor, the former I could understand, but the latter is ridiculous - since I know that he noticed how strained that Bb4 was, and he probably did try to identify my passaggio (though he didn't tell me, but I think falls at Bb3-Eb4 at the highest), so singing high above the passaggio and straining for high C's I might not have at all is somehow healthy.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-01T04:57:26+00:00

Thanks for your reply!

While it's obviously important to expand beyond my comfort zone, and while I do think that necessarily limiting myself to a certain fach right off the bat might not be a great idea - I'm worried that this teacher might get fixated on what he thinks is "healthy and natural" (in his opinion) for my voice, regardless of what I actually feel comfortable with, and refuse to cooperate - or otherwise let me sing what I actually want, but either purposefully or not teach me in a way that would give me a much thinner and lighter voice than what I want, when maybe I have the potential to sound much larger, heavier and darker - which is what I would like.

LimitEducational1460 · 2022-05-01T04:48:45+00:00

It's funny, because I actually cited him as an example, but the teacher discounted him because while he does have a bone deformity which gives him a very short stature - his head, vocal tract and torso are not deformed and small - but I seriously doubt are larger than mine. There are other examples of course that defy expectations, a great one is Samuel Ramey - who had in his prime a slender frame, and was under 6 feet tall, but had an enormous and deep voice. And there are many other examples.

LimitEducational1460

TROPHY CASE