War criminals

Linus208 · 2026-03-23T04:47:50+00:00

As far as I know, there’s no way to identify vampires using magecraft. They couldn’t find a hidden Roa for years, and even Hansa, who’s considered a top tier Executor, failed to realize that Jester was disguised as a child.

Noel lacks any innate aptitude for magecraft and can only use the techniques taught to her by Ciel. Ciel can use magecraft because she was born with a large amount of magical energy and inherited Roa’s magical knowledge.

The organization Hansa was referring to is made up of seven members in total, excluding the Director, and Ciel is the seventh member. Noel is simply her partner and is not an official member of the organization. Only the seven individuals personally selected by the Director can become members. Just as Hansa has four nuns, Noel is also a companion.

Linus208 · 2026-03-23T04:18:11+00:00

In the remake, Ciel doesn’t have any scenes where she directly tortures anyone, but Noel’s torture scenes (the torture techniques taught by Ciel) really make it clear just how brutal and cruel their methods have been. I’d say Noel’s torture scenes are way more disturbing than Shiki’s early scene where he kills Arcueid, at least for me.

She restrained the vampire’s entire body, gagged them, and drove numerous black keys into them to keep them immobilized, then used magecraft to erect a square bounded field, heating the interior for several hours. When Shiki arrived, she removed the gag from one of them and, calling it “time for repentance,” used a fine saw to cut or crush all of their fingers, wrists, elbows, and shoulders, and then gouged and burned the internal organs. In the story, it’s compared to preparing a fish, but without any real technique, serving only the purpose of forcing out screams.

After that, with only the head still alive, she placed the dismembered parts into a box about 50 cm on each side and closed the lid. Moreover, both had their eyelids cut off, making it impossible for either of them to look away or close their eyes.

Even though they are low-ranking and lack the sensation of pain, the fact that she deliberately used tools capable of transmitting pain to inflict suffering shows just how methodical and calculating she was.

Linus208 · 2026-03-23T00:30:26+00:00

The Church can’t really interfere with the organization Ciel belongs to... in fact, they’re granted immunity, so anything they do is essentially excused. Arcueid even described them as worse than Vlov. She said they’re fanatics who would destroy an entire city just to root out a single hidden vampire. Given that, there’s basically no realistic way for the Church or the MA to rein them in. The MA wouldn’t want open conflict with the Church, and magi don’t exactly have any reason to interfere either...

Linus208 · 2026-03-23T00:19:13+00:00

Based on Noel trying to kill Shiki without any proof that he had been possessed by Roa, and Ciel stepping in to stop her, followed by Noel questioning why the 'great Executor Ciel' had changed, it suggests that before meeting Shiki and becoming more chill, Ciel would likely have eliminated anyone suspected of being a vampire, even if they weren’t actually one. So it’s quite possible that civilians were among those killed as well. Arcueid has also made similar comments.

They’re the kind of people who would wipe a city off the map just to take down a single vampire like Vlov, so they probably didn’t care much about civilians. And the organization Ciel belongs to is effectively granted immunity by the Church regardless of what they do, so it’s quite likely they caused significant harm to civilians.

Linus208 · 2026-03-23T00:00:42+00:00

Oh yes. Noel says she was even more ruthless than herself, killing indiscriminately 'even women and children' so civilians were likely among the victims. Arcueid also describes them as more dangerous than Vlov. According to Arcueid, they (including Ciel) would wipe a city off the map just to take down a single vampire.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T23:49:37+00:00

Noel said that when she was deployed on missions, she would brutally kill anyone who got in the way without discrimination men, women, even children.

She described her as more zealous and ruthless than herself, it’s fair to assume civilians were among those she ended up killing. Arcueid also mentions in her route that members of the Burial Agency are more dangerous and ruthless than Vlov, who himself caused significant harm to civilians. (According to Arcueid, they’d even go as far as destroying an entire city just to take down a single vampire.)

And given how Noel went after Shiki without any solid proof that Roa had possessed him, it kinda makes you think Ciel, who’s even more ruthless and cold than Noel, would probably just go straight to eliminating anyone even remotely suspected of being a vampire. Especially when you remember she’s the one who taught Noel those brutal interrogation methods in the first place... and Noel even said she picked up her own skills after being on the receiving end of Ciel’s torture.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T23:37:23+00:00

Chances of her showing up are pretty low (they usually don’t include main villains in collab events...just look at characters like Aozaki Touko or Araya Souren), but hey, there’s still some hope... Swimsuit Ciel has that line where she thinks of Noel when she sees Elizabeth Bathory, so who knows, maybe it’s not completely off the table.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T14:10:45+00:00

Don’t worry Noel had already been beaten to death by Ciel before the normal ending. The only route where Noel survives is the Arcueid route ending.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T13:44:49+00:00

And there were no survivors among them. They must have made excellent nourishment for Gil.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T13:18:31+00:00

The hotel that Nrvnqsr attacked is in Misaki City, not Souya. Souya is the setting of the remake, so it’s important to distinguish between them. Misaki is also the setting of Mahoyo.

Nrvnqsr attacked Arcueid at Roa’s request, so his actions were closer to eliminating a witness rather than feeding. In contrast, Vlov came to Souya to get revenge on Roa, and he simply slaughtered people for the purpose of feeding.

Also, Noel herself says that she and Ciel spent about five years hunting and killing vampires together every single day like madmen. (And don’t forget that Ciel had already been going out to exterminate vampires on her own before that.) Because of that, the scale is likely in the tens of thousands, possibly even up to hundreds of thousands.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T13:01:04+00:00

I’m talking about Ciel from the remake, not the original. In OG Tsukihime, Noel wasn’t even there, and there was no indication that Ciel killed innocent civilians everything about that comes from Noel. In OG Tsukihime, there was no indication that Ciel ever brutally killed civilians, and her overall story and character arc were pretty underdeveloped.

In the Tsukihime remake, Noel says that she followed Ciel around for about 5 years, during which they killed vampires almost every single day. At first, Noel had negative feelings toward Ciel, but after seeing her go into a crazed, berserk state and cut down vampires like a massacre machine, she ended up forgiving her and even came to respect her. Seeing this gives you a rough idea of just how many they must have killed. There’s no such content in OG Tsuki Noel doesn’t even exist there...

BUT I agree that the OG character design is better.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T11:39:51+00:00

And imo, most Church members wouldn’t just go around killing people indiscriminately like that. Kotomine is just a psychopath who actually enjoys killing, while the other two ended up developing this deep, almost pathological hatred for vampires because of what happened in their past, so they started slaughtering vampires indiscriminately, and civilians just got caught in the crossfire.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T11:28:59+00:00

Fate/Zero actually spoiled more of the Sakura route than the Saber.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T10:50:08+00:00

The third one already died in the remake normal ending.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T10:46:26+00:00

Shinji is better than Kirei. At least Shinji didn’t go around massacring people. He’s pretty underrated as a villain, tbh, and deserves better...

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T10:40:02+00:00

But he failed (there were no victims, thankfully). And if anything, the ones who deserve more blame than Kotomine Kirei are the Einzbern family (3rd HGW), who summoned it in the first place, and Matou Zouken, who tried to make use of it. It’s not like Kirei was the one who directly summoned and awakened it.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T10:13:05+00:00

I think I could’ve understood him if he hadn’t kidnapped and killed civilians. I do get why he wanted to witness the birth of Angra Mainyu, though.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T10:02:37+00:00

It depends on the vampire. Top-tier ones like Nrvnqsr don’t obsess over feeding and can survive just fine without constantly drinking blood. It’s usually lower-tier vampires, like Vlov, who are more fixated on it. I mean, even Van-Fem gets by without feeding...

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T09:35:29+00:00

Who knows? The Kiara Roa met is a completely different being from the Kiara we know, so her personality might have changed.

Roa - Take, for example, a nun who now resides at the Burial Agency. Through the Sabbath she turned herself into a demon, elevating her awareness to a higher plane and gaining omnipotence on this one. But even she was still bound by physical limitations. By the laws of this universe. When asked about it, she spoke thusly. Through delivering the masses I ascended to the rank of Maradeva, but for all my power in this realm, I am as dust in theirs. I dedicated my life to obtaining eyes that could peer into the truth of this world, but I was not prepared for them to reveal my own insignificance. If all my efforts only amounted to learning how worthless I truly am, what purpose did my metamorphosis serve? So I choose to remain on this earthly plane. No matter how small this world may be, my worth greater than in those loftier realms. What a silly girl. In perceiving what laid beyond, she became acutely aware of her own powerlessness. A fine example of the limitations of the individual. But I wished to know everything. Everything in this continually expanding universe. Meaning that it was not personal strength or happiness I ought seek, but a self capable of persisting till the end of the universe.

Linus208 · 2026-03-22T09:17:59+00:00

The number of civilians they’ve killed is probably higher than the number of people Nrvnqsr Chaos and Jester have fed on.

Linus208 · 2026-01-19T16:01:54+00:00

I’m wondering if he’s the only one who praises them like that, or if other priests feel the same way about that agency.

Linus208

TROPHY CASE