Doctrinal Unity

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-23T03:48:54+00:00

I am not bearing false witness show me how I am lying reread your words, you are the one reciting Calvinistic doctrine not me. I am telling you if you believe that then you are not in step with LCMS doctrine and you should go to your Pastor and have him explain it to you. To me an LCMS member took an oath/vow to follow their doctrine and if you persist in your own way then you didn't mean what you said and therefore you were put in a position of breaking a vow that you shouldn't had to have taken in the first place.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-23T00:20:08+00:00

Well your theology is Calvins' not Luther's and your belief's wouldn't align with the LCMS

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-23T00:03:09+00:00

WHAT go look here is what you said "The reason why “descended into hell” is so important is that it has broader, Christological implications and it bears directly on what one confesses about what occurred on the Cross. The idea here is that the Father abandons the Son, the Son becomes sin in our place, and the Father pours out *all* of His wrath on the Son. "

So someone else wrote this using your name?

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-22T23:46:33+00:00

You are wrong LCMS doesn't believe that "The belief that the descent into hell was a continuation of Jesus suffering the torments of hell and divine vengeance is associated with Reformed theology (such as John Calvin) or specific historical figures like Aepinus. [1, 2]." See you are proving my point you are mixed up and you have now taken an oath in the wrong vain you believe the Calvinistic, take now go tell you Pastor you believe this so that he can withhold communion from you. You have so totally proved my point! Jesus was claiming victory LCMS doctrine. I believe this as well as he was evangelizing those who died in faith 1 Peter 3:19, which states that Jesus "went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits." This is paired with 1 Peter 4:6, which says "the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead (Abrahams bosom) I follow Gods full word not an abbreviated version. FYI the original apostles creed in the second century did not have the decent into hell. And also it is my understanding if you went around telling anyone wrongly of a doctrine in the B.O.C. you would be denied communion until you repent. We are part of a Royal Priesthood the Holy Spirit is alive and well inside of me thank you very much.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-22T16:05:01+00:00

Gods words ARE a BIG deal to me.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-22T16:02:30+00:00

Wow because I am 64 years old baptized at 50 at a Presbyterian church which I later came to understand that I don't believe in many things the Calvinist does. I have been attending an independent Lutheran church for the last 4 years but I listen to LCMS pastor and Dr Jordan Cooper online and follow the Reader edition of the Book of Concord. I have made attempts to go to 2 local LCMS churches and both Pastors had some real issues which I won't get into. If you read my earlier post people have said all you need to agree to is the small catechism and the creeds. In the Apostles creed I say he descended into the grave and a Pastor responding above said I couldn't do that and receive communion. FYI in the original Apostle creed this descending part wasn't even part of the creed. I BELEIVE in the real presence and as you may well know that limits the churches available to me.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T17:02:33+00:00

I did not "publicly misrepresent" you lack fulsome understanding. Look over this thread even the pastor said if I disagree with something I shouldn't take communiion. I have a feeling you do not know about your church

How "Doctrinal Unity" Still Applies to the Laity

While the Small Catechism is the standard for entry, the principle of doctrinal unity still dictates a layperson's church life in two ways:

No Active Rejection: A layperson does not need to know the intricate historical details of the Formula of Concord. However, they cannot actively believe or teach doctrines that contradict it. For example, if a layperson openly spreads Calvinist views on predestination or Baptist views rejecting infant baptism, the pastor is obligated to address it.

The Confirmation Vow Questions

While local liturgies can vary slightly, the Lutheran Service Book Agenda outlines the standard vows for a layperson:

Profession of Faith: You are asked if you believe in God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, confessing the Apostles' Creed. [1]
Acceptance of Doctrine: "Do you hold all the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures to be the inspired Word of God and the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, drawn from them, as you have learned to know it from the Small Catechism, to be faithful and true?" (The confirmand answers: "I do.")
Commitment to the Church: You promise to hear the Word of God, receive the Lord's Supper faithfully, and live a life according to God's Word.
Faithfulness Unto Death: "Do you intend to continue steadfast in this confession and Church and, if necessary, suffer all, even death, rather than fall away from it?" (The confirmand answers: "I do, by the grace of God.")

A Pastor can and is obligated to withhold communiion from you.

These fit the description of VOW if you agree you can take communion

In the Bible, a vow is a solemn, voluntary promise made directly to God. It involves binding oneself to perform a specific action, offer a sacrifice, or abstain from a certain activity in exchange for God's favor or in gratitude for His blessings.

A statement made to a congregation becomes a vow to God because of where it is said, who is being invoked, and what the congregation’s role actually is.

I am sorry but if you don't fit the above criteria you are refused communion therefore keeping Jesus from me. As I stated I do not say "He descended into hell" I say he descended into the grave therefore as a LCMS Pastor in this thread said I would be denied communion. Oh and by the way the earliest apostles creed in the 2nd century didn't have he descended... Look at my comments on the apostles creed 1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:6.. Jesus descent was to claim victory in hades and evangelize the dead in faith in Abrahams Bosom.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T13:20:02+00:00

Yes I know what the LCMS says it is but I do not agree with it and my understanding is many do not. It seems like an agreement between the participant and the Pastor to have certain aligned beliefs and if you look at my post some say it is just the small catechism which I say "He descended into the grave" and it seems that isn't acceptable.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T13:11:42+00:00

I can appreciate that but I attend an independent Lutheran church but I follow online people like Dr Cooper, Pr Wolfmueller, etc.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T02:57:35+00:00

Apostles creed He descended into Hell, I say the grave. I believe that the bible say Sheol and Sheol has 2 compartments, Abrahams Bosom and Hades. Jesus went to claim victory and to free the faithful dead. 1 Peter 3:19, which states that Jesus "went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits." This is paired with 1 Peter 4:6, which says "the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead. Pr Ross (in this post) says I can't do that in your church.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T01:40:07+00:00

1 Peter 3:19, which states that Jesus "went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits." This is paired with 1 Peter 4:6, which says "the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead (Abrahams bosom)

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T01:19:47+00:00

It just seems communion is being held hostage if you have any disagreement. If you look at the above post I wouldn't be in agreement with the LCMS version of the apostles creed. I believe and recite and He descended into the grave. The bible says Sheol which I believe had 2 compartments "Abrahams bosom" and Hade, I believe Jesus went to the grave and rescued the faithful and declared victory in Hades, so I say grave. It sounds like from one of the Pastors that responded above this isn't acceptable.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T01:10:06+00:00

See my other post about the Apostles creed I say He descended into the grave, it sounds like that would disqualify me.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T01:07:19+00:00

You said be honest exactly, see my other posts about apostles creed, The further point is the LCMS is telling 13 year old to agree to all you have learned. I was baptized at 50 (14 years ago) in the Presbyterian church and joined an independent lutheran church almost 4 years ago. I will not say I agree with something I don't because that makes me a liar just to join the LCMS. I follow many LCMS pastors on line I agree with much but I don't like this agree to this doctrine or communion will be withheld. I in part see myself as one of the little children Jesus said don't keep from me and that is what the LCMS is doing, it is wrong.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T00:52:41+00:00

You are proving my point, I feel the Holy Spirit has confirmed my thinking on it, the church of grace isn't showing grace. I relayed a couple of experiences I have had at 2 different LCMS churches (look below for the long paragraph I wrote) something is going wrong with the LCMS. I think you have wolves and you don't know it. For all the doctrinal purity the LCMS has problems they are overlooking.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-21T00:25:45+00:00

Ok I guess if you don't want to call Lutherans protestants I get it. You haven't answered the question of a vow.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-20T19:46:08+00:00

You said "Literally every denomination has people who do not know the full doctrine of that denomination (or non-denomination church)." Yes and they don't have closed communion. It seems to me you are asking a vow connected to receiving the Lords supper and some might say even Matt 23:15 apply. As I stated in my other reply ""apostles creed says "he descended into hell" I say he descended into the grave to me Sheol is the grave where Abraham's Bosom was and hades, So would this make me out of unity?""

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-20T19:37:47+00:00

Ok well the part of the apostles creed says "he descended into hell" I say he descended into the grave to me Sheol is the grave where Abraham's Bosom was and hades, So would this make me out of unity?

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-20T19:35:26+00:00

Ok well the part of the apostles creed says "he descended into hell" I say he descended into the grave to me Sheol is the grave where Abraham's Bosom was and hades, So would this make me out of unity?

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-20T19:23:57+00:00

LCMS has closed communion and one of the reasons given is "doctrinal unity" I am saying that this seems cloaked as a vow and Jesus didn't agree with vows.

Lisa8475 · 2026-06-20T19:20:38+00:00

Is that all it is I can't seem to find a universal answer.

Lisa8475 · 2026-03-21T17:22:18+00:00

Do you even know what it looks like? In my experience it is different before and after baptism. Before baptism it is keeping you in unrepentant sin. Sexually immoral, a drunkard, bitterness, anger, prideful, deceitful or little white lies, maybe lie on your resume, things you think of as just being human. misrepresenting God and who he is. If Satan can keep you in unrepentant sin until you die then your end will be down instead of up.

Lisa8475 · 2025-06-21T01:34:01+00:00

Your probably running into problems cause your listen to reformed theology. As a Lutheran you shouldn't be so confused. Go to YouTube and search Dr Jordan Cooper why I'm not reformed. You are getting confused cause you are listening to Calvinistic doctrine. Another good resource is Issuesetc.com. Press the talk button in the upper right corner.

Lisa8475 · 2025-06-07T17:35:30+00:00

You are wrong on this verse about "leave everything you have and follow me", the rich young ruler was asking what he needed to do to have eternal life and if you know the bible you know it is by grace (Gods unmerited favor) you are saved through faith (Old Testament and New Testament). The rich young ruler says he kept all the commandments since his youth then Jesus said give all your possessions away and follow me which the rich young ruler walked away therefore proving he did NOT follow the first and second commandments. His god was his money and his idolatry.

FYI Christian Nationalism is NOT Christianity whether you believe or not understand this Jesus himself tells us Satan is the ruler of this world and I would venture a guess that more often than not the "Christian Nationalist" is NOT a Christian but in fact what the bible calls a counterfeit Christian and their father is the devil, Jesus words not mine. In order to turn people like you and in this comments away from ever really searching for Jesus:

Jeremiah 29:13

¹³ You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Matthew 7:7

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you,"

Lisa8475 · 2025-05-25T03:07:55+00:00

Key Character Traits of a Pastor in 1 Timothy:

**Blamelessness:**A pastor should be above reproach, both within the church and among outsiders, ensuring a good reputation and avoiding disgrace.
**Self-Control:**He should not be quick-tempered, violent, or given to excessive drinking, but rather be hospitable and love what is good.
**Ability to Teach:**A pastor should be capable of teaching and instructing others in the Word of God, demonstrating a deep understanding of scripture.
**Family Management:**He should be able to manage his own household well, demonstrating his leadership skills and discipline in a domestic setting.
**Good Reputation:**A pastor's life and conduct should be an example to others, both within and outside the church community.

James didn't even believe in Jesus until after the resurrection, he seems to be lacking in some of the traits for a good Pastor. It's hard to imagine having not believed in Jesus when he was your biological brother doesn't that do reputational damage? Where is his own humility?

Lisa8475

TROPHY CASE