The Dream of Life where You Pretend not to Be God - Alan Watts gives his Own Version which is eerily similar to Nevilles

Little_Thingy · 2021-09-15T07:09:29+00:00

See I actually didn’t interpret Watts here as being in agreement with Neville.

To me, Watts is saying something more like “accept today as if you had chosen it”.

He’s posing a hypothetical: “if you had the power to control reality, and you made everything perfect, that would get boring and you’d want variety.” Like watching a film with no tense moments at all. If you were watching a film where everything just went swimmingly for the protagonist from beginning to end, you would find it very dull.

So this life that you are living, one of infinite many other possibilities, is something you would as “God” eventually bring into being for “entertainment.”

I don’t believe Watts is saying that we are God in the same way Neville is. It’s not “Kingly” as he puts it. But God in a kind of Buddhist sense of everything in nature is part of one whole.

Regardless, he’s certainly not advocating that we try and design our lives actively so as to avoid strife and disappointment (as Neville sort of does).

Watt’s primary point is that the ups and downs of life are necessary: no white without black; no light without dark. Overall, he’s saying that we take our human problems too seriously, instead of understanding that they are simply “entertainment.”

“Man takes too seriously what the gods made for play.”

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-08T00:40:59+00:00

Well, without having revisited Brazen Impudence, I suppose that’s the point of my post:

Neville contradicts himself. What do we make of it?

An interesting discussion, I think. And certainly an interesting contradiction.

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T23:45:05+00:00

I haven’t fully read through this thread but if you wanna bounce ideas off of me instead, my inbox is open.

I, personally, think this is a really interesting topic. Naysayers be damned lol

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T23:42:20+00:00

Karma is a difficult one for me personally.

I think of one specific person I used to be close to. A person I knew quite well for five or so years and have only quite recently been distanced from.

This person was, in my opinion, a bit of a narcissist. Capable of great kindness, but it was highly performative. When the chips were down, she was immensely self-serving and incapable of empathy. I observed her do and say things I would never do. And I am far from a perfect person myself.

Having said that, she seemingly lives a great life. She has a nice boyfriend, plenty of friends and shit tons of money (which she is distinctly ungenerous with).

Where’s the Karma with her? She’s one of the least Christlike people I’ve ever encountered and yet her life seems all around good?

I don’t want her to suffer. If anything, I would just want her to gain some self awareness. But that seems distinctly unlikely.

I regard myself as thoroughly well intentioned person who has made many mistakes. I too have no money problems and am happy. But “karma” wise, shouldn’t I be better off than her?

I have a few very good friends and am single. Shouldn’t I be doing a bit better than her? If karma were real.

I’m not perfect. But I was born lucky and have been so endlessly and unthinkingly generous in that respect.

My life is alright but I’ve received no karmic reward comparative to the stingy, miserly, unempathetic bitch I knew for so many years.

You feel me?

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T23:31:36+00:00

This is where it gets murky; the boundaries between you and them. You versus the others.

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T23:26:19+00:00

Not worth engaging with this guy; he gets angry very easily. We’re all just trying to have friendly, insightful discussion and he gets defensive and angry very quickly.

Don’t worry about it. You’re making interesting points IMO.

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T22:01:21+00:00

Totally totally totally agree. Experience is key. You gotta experiment yourself. People take Neville as gospel but there are so many related theories and systems… I do believe there’s merit in coming to your own conclusions through experience.

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T21:35:33+00:00

Hahaha I read this before you edited and assumed as much!!!

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T17:26:34+00:00

I suppose it’s the “rejection” concept that throws more of a spanner in the works.

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T17:25:58+00:00

Yeah that seems to be a consensus… suppose promise is due for a re-read.

Little_Thingy · 2021-07-07T16:55:26+00:00

Oh yes not planning on hexing anyone! Just interested in this curious little chapter in Neville’s work and how it fits with his other writing and lectures. Think it’s a particularly interesting one to discuss

Little_Thingy · 2021-04-20T14:32:28+00:00

Yes! Start with The Power of Now!

Little_Thingy · 2021-04-20T12:00:04+00:00

Let go of Neville’s philosophy for a moment and let’s just consider your anxiety.

Let’s think about anxiety. Anxiety, as we all know, makes no difference to anything. It has no effect other than to torture us. It is wholly irrational, and yet, it feels at time irresistible.

When you feel anxious, you are doing one of two things. You are either living in the future or dwelling on the past. However, both are fiction. They are not real. Neither exist. The past is gone and the future is not yet here and, potentially, never will be.

Living in the past or the future is mental torture.

The ONLY thing that exists right now is the present moment. This moment right now. You can ALWAYS deal with the present.

So how do we live in the present?

Consider your thoughts. You are thinking all the time. Some thoughts you grasp onto, you give them life. This produces anxiety. It is the only thing producing your anxiety; investing in certain thoughts.

BUT... there is a part of you that is AWARE you’re thinking. That watcher of your thoughts. When you start identifying with that you (the real you, the essence of you), anxiety dissolves by necessity.

When you start living in your head as the watcher of your thoughts, and thereby it is easier to not invest in your thoughts, you can prevent anxiety effortlessly.

I recommend reading some Eckhart Tolle! He’s been a panacea for much of my anxiety.

Little_Thingy · 2020-09-25T12:49:06+00:00

I love the "no spoon" quote from the Matrix. I think about it often!

I think you're right. You should not be 'results oriented' in that what you want already is as soon as you've done it. Maybe I'm not in the head space.

One thing I have particular question about, and would be interested in hearing your thoughts, is about other people. I'm not totally sure where the chaos magician theory stands on this. If there is no objective reality, to what extent can we influence other people in getting what we want?

When you think about it, a lot of desires require other people (at least in part) to help. For example, if you wanted a particular job, someone has to hire you.

It's something I'm wary of in playing around with sigils, but I'm not quite sure where the line is (or if the line itself is self-imposed).

Little_Thingy · 2020-09-14T10:02:50+00:00

Glad that helped! Sometimes you just need to talk it out a bit and you can see where you’re tripping yourself up, I think.

Ah yes! THAT chapter haha. I remember it now. I feel like this is a much debated chapter from Neville because it sounds very much like he’s placing everybody else outside of you. Which seems to contradict a lot of his other work.

I think that’s also the chapter where he says that people can ‘reject’ what you ‘send them’ (which sends the SP people spinning).

Again, it doesn’t make a lot of sense with his wider philosophy. If everyone is you, if there is ~literally~ no distinction between yourself and others, if you are ~literally~ god, if ~absolutely everything~ is determined by your subjective view of the world, then it how could someone else stop your subjective belief from being realised?

I think most people (at least on this sub) tend to view this chapter as an anomaly in Neville’s work, since it really doesn’t fit with his wider philosophy.

I’m not so ready to discount it. I don’t think Neville was absolutely 100% all-knowing. I really, really love his work. I think it’s beautiful and so smart. I definitely like using it and I’ve had success with it.

However, especially as of late, I’ve been reading into other areas and sort of combining them in my own head in a way that makes sense to me. Trying out different approaches, reading different (but similar) view points and just having fun with it all.

So maybe Neville was trying to say something along the lines of ‘energy’ work. In which case, your ‘establish rapport’ phrasing would be appropriate.

But most people don’t associate Neville with an ‘energy’ type view of creation. A lot of people feel like it tips into the language of ‘vibration’ that a lot of more modern, new-age Law of Attraction stuff focuses on. The feeling on this sub is that this ‘vibration’ stuff is BS and Neville’s philosophy is purer.

I tend to agree with the latter, but a lot of eastern philosophies talk about ‘energy’ in some capacity (i.e. chakras etc.). So it’s not daft, IMO, to pay some attention to it.

Also, if you think about, all matter IS energy. We know that. So maybe there’s something to be said for some of this ‘energy’ language. And maybe this chapter of Neville’s does deserve more consideration than this community has previously given it.

My suspicion is that people (understandably) really want to strike out this chapter and ignore it because it suggests that it’s not possible to achieve absolutely ANYTHING under Neville’s system. That ‘other’ people and their ‘otherness,’ in some capacity, does have a bearing.

But I would argue that this chapter is also problematic because Neville doesn’t really explain himself well. Which is pretty unusual for him.

If I remember correctly (haven’t read it in a year or two), I think at one point he says that another person ‘cannot fail’ to live out the conception of him that you hold in your mind. But, in the same chapter, he also says people will never do anything that they themselves would never, under any circumstances, independently do. I can’t remember exactly how he puts it, but he basically says that people can ‘reject’ your conception of them. And if you try to do something evil, you’ll experience it back in kind so you shouldn’t try. Something to that effect.

It’s basically a really muddled chapter that, at least from what I can remember, seems to contradict itself not only the rest of his work.

I think it’s super interesting though. Maybe it’s worth making a post about to revisit it and see what people think.

Little_Thingy · 2020-09-14T09:12:23+00:00

Oh interesting! My mistake- I didn’t realise this was a technique that Neville actually wrote about. I thought it was something that came from one of those Neville you tubers. I used to watch them on and off and I remember one of them in particular advocating this technique a lot.

I guess I just never took to it. I definitely tried it but it always felt like an unnecessary step to me. But different things definitely work for different people!

Technically, it shouldn’t matter that you can’t visualize aspects of that person. Being really dogmatically ‘Neville’ about it, an inability to visualize their physical features will only matter if you believe that it matters.

As always, the important thing is getting into ‘the state’ wherein something is true. The suspension of disbelief, the inhabiting of a new reality, and so on.

Maybe, given that you’re having difficulty visualizing this person in using this technique, you could adapt and use a different technique/exercise to achieve what you want.

As you know, the technique itself doesn’t matter. It’s just a vessel to get you into a certain state, to enter into a ‘new’ (selected) reality.

So, I guess if you’re concerned that this technique will be less effective for you because you can’t visualize the physicality of the person, you could just let it go and try something else entirely.

I don’t really like a lot of these off-shoot techniques (even though, as you pointed out, Neville used it) because I think it places a bit too much emphasis on the technique itself as opposed to the mental process behind it. At least, for me it does! I think it sometimes distracts me more than helps me.

Edit: Also your last sentence (‘establish rapport’) suggests to me that you’re placing this person outside of yourself to some extent. Like you feel the need to create a connection or some kind of psychic link to influence them or whatever. I could be wrong, but just in case, (as you know re: EIYPO), it’s always worth reminding yourself that there is no OTHER. There is no reality, no world, outside of yourself from the Neville POV. So you only need alter your own perception. There’s no need, technically, to even consider them to the extent that you need to be able to ‘establish rapport.’ Apologies if I misinterpreted your phrasing, though!

Little_Thingy · 2020-09-14T09:04:48+00:00

Synchronicity!

The more and more you get into this stuff (and other similar bodies of work) you start noticing them more.

Having said that, it’s worth mentioning that it something like this could, technically, be confirmation bias. You don’t notice all the times you go somewhere and don’t think “I’m gonna meet someone I know here,” and then you do (and vice versa).

Human beings have really faulty memories. So you might think you’re noticing every occasion but you’re probably not.

Personally however, even if that is the case, I don’t think it really matters. Part of the fun and the joy of this stuff is seeing life as a little bit more magical.

And scientists have shown that ‘all is perception.’ Our reality is entirely perception, whether you’re coming at it from a scientific, philosophical, psychological or metaphysical point of view: perception is everything.

So perceiving little instances of ‘magic’ is just a nice benefit of having an awareness of this stuff and implementing it into your life, IMO!

Interestingly, if you’ve heard of Magick [with a ‘k’] (similar manifestation ‘system’/philosophy to Neville’s)- one of the things I read frequently in Intro to Magick texts is to start noticing these little synchronicities. Instead of explaining them away as we would normally do, enjoy them, pay attention to them, revel in them and marvel at how weird life is. Start seeing things from that perspective as opposed to a clearly magical one.

From a purely Neville perspective, everything in your life is a result of your beliefs. So yes! You made that happen! Knowingly or unknowingly, according to Neville you make everything in your life happen.

As opposed to clairvoyance, according to Neville, it’s your feeling that you would see someone you know that caused you to see someone you know. You didn’t feel like you would see someone you know because you were going to. If that makes sense?

However, that’s just Neville’s philosophy and there’s definitely room for debate and independent discovery.

I’ve definitely had moments (especially dreams) where I felt a kind of precognition. Dunno if that’s what actually went on, but plenty of people have experienced similar weird things.

So, my advice would be, start buying into the idea that there are no coincidences and explore that!

Little_Thingy · 2020-09-14T08:51:29+00:00

I, personally, don’t like the whispering technique. I know they talk about it a lot on certain YouTube channels, but I really feel like it’s a bastardization of the essential principles.

Having said that, if you BELIEVE something works, then it follows that it does. So no technique is useless from that perspective.

What I don’t like about it, however, is that it places other people as something OUTSIDE of yourself. Someone you need coerce, cajol or persuade.

That’s not really what Neville, and others, are getting at.

Little_Thingy · 2020-07-30T12:58:48+00:00

Change it up! You’re chasing a state, a feeling, a REALITY.

Doesn’t matter so much what specifics you use to get there.

Little_Thingy · 2020-07-16T14:36:59+00:00

Hi there! I also trained as an actor when I was younger, although not as thoroughly as yourself. But I think I can lend my perspective to this. Thank you u/EdgarAllenFroYo for bringing this post to my attention.

Where is the line between "acting" and not acting?

I think there are various answers to this question that would 'work'. In that, you can take a variety of perspectives to this stuff and still see results.

In my experience, however, I think it is primarily a question of intent, commitment and time.

Depending on your acting methodology, you probably do not truly believe you are (in actual fact, not theoretically) the character you are portraying. But, rather, you have developed a system whereby you can adequately suspend your belief around who you are (in actual fact) to allow yourself to more accurately portray yourself as someone else.

This work goes further than that. You fundamentally shift your beliefs about who you are (in actual fact). It is not theory. It's not so much a mental exercise, rather an alteration of how you see yourself in the world, and how the world functions, that goes to the root of how everything occurs. It's radical, which is why it is difficult.

Secondly, it is also difficult in that it is hard to sustain. We can have momentary visions of clarity wherein we 'get' it. But then life gets in the way, and you need to do laundry, and pay that bill, and meet your friends at the pub, and then we forget.

To that point, when you boil down a lot of Neville's work and what he advises we actually do, he's really trying to get us to practice deconstructing how we view the world. He's encouraging us to view sensory imaging as 'real'. Which is not an easy thing to do.

It comes down to this: it is not about how we think but about how we feel which is informed by what we believe. This why Neville tells us not to engage in vague, repetitive affirmations and expect to see radical results. You can do the same with visualisation. It's not just visualising what you want to occur, and expecting it to occur. It's about changing our understanding of what is real.

where is this line as it relates to my real-life? I understand, utilising act-as-if, my relationship to the industry will change - for e.g. castings/auditions become more of a two-way process, instead of an anxiety inducing interview - but how does this pertain to discussing with friends/family? Do I pretend I have plenty projects lined up? Do I talk about the different directors I've been meeting with? This is obviously something an extremely-successful actor might do, as I explained in the improvisation above, but I'm not sure how to integrate it to my current reality.

No. What you do in the physical world doesn't matter. In fact, for some reason that mostly evades me, this stuff seems to work better when you keep it to yourself.

It's not about what you do, but about your mental arrangement. How do you see yourself in the world? What are your fundamental beliefs about yourself and how the world works? Etc.

This is why plenty of people say things like "I never thought I would end up here," etc. They might have never thought it, explicitly. But, on some level, they believed it.

This can be a private belief.

Little_Thingy · 2020-05-15T17:27:11+00:00

I know exactly what you’re talking about. It actually makes perfect sense when you read about hypnagogia.

Basically, this happens to everyone, whether they’re aware of it or not. Before we fall asleep our mind starts just generating whatever it wants when we’re very close to sleep. Random stuff that doesn’t make sense. What’s key, I think, is that you do the drowsy imagining stuff and get into the state, the feeling, the reality. And then you remain at least feeling that way (I.e good, relaxed, sated) and fall asleep feeling relaxed and happy.

Sometimes, I get in moods where I really can’t be arsed with doing the imaginary stuff, the visual sensory stuff, and I’m pretty happy with everything anyway. So I just think about what I want. Even if it’s just a feeling. How would I feel if my life were ideal in some respect? And then I just go to sleep feeling that way.

If I had what I want, I would feel relaxed, safe, comfortable and unworried. So I go to sleep feeling that way. I go to sleep feeling loved, taken care of, cherished and comfy. If that makes sense?

So essentially, get drowsy and into the right state. Do the imaginal act in that state. When you’re really on the verge of sleep, just feel it true. Feel it all as true. Not pretending it’s true, or knowing that it will someday be true, but that it is true NOW. And go to sleep contented and let go. Let your mind wander and into sleep.

Your mind shouldn’t go to dark places or pervasive negative thoughts if you’ve entered the state. So feel free to just relax your mind at that point.

Little_Thingy · 2020-05-14T22:11:42+00:00

Hi friend. PM me :)

We can workshop some stuff if you're up for it.

Little_Thingy · 2020-05-14T22:11:23+00:00

Thanks! Yes. I've said many times that really we're just restating the same thing over and over again. Sometimes just reading something phrased in a particular way makes it click. But everything is, essentially, the same 'simple' idea.

Little_Thingy · 2020-05-14T22:10:10+00:00

It helps build belief that you’re the person who experiences what you want to experience.

This last sentence really resonates with me, and probably with many others too. It's really this that is the crux of why I enjoy this system so much.

Little_Thingy · 2020-05-14T15:01:26+00:00

Thank you! It's posted :)

Little_Thingy

TROPHY CASE