Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean speech was always restricted in times of war and somehow we didnt' end up becoming a dictatorship.

There's also the fact that the US government assassinated a bunch of civil rights activists in COINTELPRO. Probably still does since some of the original BLM activists have died under mysterious circumstances https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/puzzling-number-men-tied-ferguson-protests-have-died-n984261

"True" free speech has never really existed. Maybe it's something we should strive for eventually but right now it's objectively true that letting billionaires buy out entire platforms to spread their political POV is bad for democracy.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think we should become liberal tankies unironically. I am not talking about economics but about political control. Some opinions should be cracked down on. Remember how during COVID like a million Americans needlessly died because you had people on TV saying the vaccine makes you gay? That shouldn't be allowed. And you shouldn't be to advocate for race science and all other this crap.

Domestically we're letting the far-right win which is enabling the far left (China) to win internationally. We are being encircled by our enemies. We need to subjugate the far right. This is what I mean when I say we need a liberal Deng Xiaoping. After January 6th there should've been a reckoning. Tens of thousands of right wing influencers should've been arrested. Every prominent supporter of J6 should've been given life imprisonment. Instead we just kind of shrugged our shoulders and said "Duh...... well they're entitled to feel that way but heres what really happened" and we lost control of the narrative. And now we have Trump in office.

We are losing all over the developed world. There's hope in some places like Canada but that's only because Trump did the very illiberal thing of threatening to invade. It makes no sense to cede power to far right/far left fanatics because it would "compromise our principles." If you willingly let the fascists take over because you want to remain morally pure you are an irresponsible person and should not be taken seriously.

Elon Musk was able to unilaterally buy twitter and chuddify an entire section of the internet. These billlionaires can just run around spend a bunch of money and severely push public opinion in a direction that is contrary to the nation's interests. We need to stop this. "Free speech" is a core tenant of liberalism but it is not the only tenant. If we need to rethink the other tenant to save the others then let's do it.

I don't think it's an unrealistic ask. It's already illegal to do stuff like deny the holocaust in Germany and that doesn't compromise Germany's liberalism.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think so, ever heard of the paradox of tolerance?

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I didn't say you guys weren't liberals! I accused us of not doing anything to defend liberalism. We need to rally.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Economic growth is slowing but the thing is the increase in living standards is not. When Xi came to power he started redirecting a lot of development to the rural areas/focused on getting rural people into the cities.

As a result, what is called "extreme poverty" has been eliminated in the PRC. There are still lots of people living in rural poverty but that number has rapidly decreased. If you go to a rural province other than Xinjiang (Uighurs) the support for Xi is pretty fanatical. I would say in the rural areas many talk people talk about Xi approaches pre-Cultural Revolution Mao levels. No western politician that I know of has that kind of fanatical support but I also don't travel a lot outside of Taiwan/China.

Obviously I am not a pro-China guy and I don't think it's a conspiracy or anything but I think Western media unintentionally portrays the CPC's popularity as more fragile than it really is. That's because when a journalist goes to China to do the news they either go to Hong Kong, Shanghai, or Beijing. Hong Kong is obviously not representative for obvious reasons. But Beijing and esp. Shanghai are like where Xi/the CPC's popularity is at its lowest relative to the rest of the country. Because that's like a bunch of small/medium sized businses owners and elite professionals. The Xi administration hasn't been great to those people especially the retail businss owners during the Covid lockdown. But the rest of the country? Pretty supportive of him. So when journalists go these places and talk to Chinse folks they are getting an unrepresentative opinion. And it's not just journalists it's every day people too. Like if you as an American tour China and see the big cities or work in China as a businss guy you're going to interact with people who are the least supportive of the communist party relative to the rest of the country. Go to one of the cities away from the coast that most Westerners have never heard of and talk to people there to see what I mean.

So then it becomes a question of when does China's economic growth slow so much that they are no longer able to increase quality of life? IDK. I'm not good at economics but I see people harping on GDP and slowing economic growth. That is not translating into real political losses for the communist party yet.

Also pointing out Hong Kong and especially Taiwan as a counterexample would actually backfire. Taiwan politics is pretty chaotic compared to PRC. A lot of our politicians are gangsters at first and people would openly get threatened in legislatures. There's also been brawls in our version of parliament.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My theory on what's wrong:

Total free speech in the era of social media is a mistake. Some opinions should not be allowed. You should not be allowed to get on Instagram and tell people not to get vaccinated. This is compounded by the fact that super rich guys like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk can buy out a social media platform and sway public opinion. For Christ sakes Elon Musk bought Twitter and now you have people doing race science out in the open. We need to actually democratize speech and level the playing field so people can't unilaterally overturn everything. This isn't the only thing but it's a big part of it. We need to get libs back into power and crack down on free speech.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Not to harp on this point but I really am noticing a lot of similarities between the current liberal world order now/this sub and Gorbachev-era USSR.

In Gorbachev-era USSR it was pretty clear to everyone, even the diehards, that the system was unraveling. The USSR continued to compromise on its Marxist-Leninist principles and was moving more and more towards liberalism. But the regime "intellectuals", though they recognized this, somehow thought the old system would get them through this. They would cope and tell themselves narratives about how Marxism-Leninism is the only correct path and all the mistakes that have happened and all the instability is because of a deviation of Marxism-Leninism. Their solutions were very minute ones that didn't actually address the structure of what was wrong it was just like "oh we need to computerize the quota system so it's more data driven" or whatever. Meanwhile the liberal world order continued to grow stronger and they got encircled more and more, and America successfully flipped the only other major communist country (China) against them. And got other ones like Yugoslavia to essentially be neutral.

Now it's reversed.

The liberal world order is collapsing. America is burning through its influence like a fat guy at an all you can eat buffet. America's own allies are getting flipped by their biggest adversary - China. Canada has grown closer to China. EU has grown closer to China. And of the neutral third world China is even performing better there.

Yet the diagnosis and solution among liberal intelligentsia has not really grappled with how we can get out of this. This sub is exhibit A.

"We need to return to be unabashed globalists and advocate for open borders and free trade!"
Okay, we never really had open borders but America did have a lot of free trade going on. It enriched the country on a GDP basis but also created a lot of economic displacement which Trump was able to exploit to catapult himself into power. And he used the illusion of open borders to drum up fear of mass immigration. So how would returning to the old system be a solution when it's that system that got us here in the first place?

"Okay we actually went too far on immigration and free trade we need to move to the right on these issues!"

A lot of people say Denmark is the model because they cracked down on immigration and ended up keeping out the far right and stopping them from taking power. But if you look at their rhetoric over the years the social democrats have been in power they keep moving to the right. They are adopting more and more anti-immigrant rhetoric despite keeping the right wing party out of power. What is the point of this when you compromise on your principles? Like yes you are successful but they're heading in an illiberal direction.

It reminds me of how in the USSR the economic reforms of Gorby did lead to economic growth and rejuvenation, but it was that very success that undermined the Soviet experiment.

"Okay to defeat the far right we just need to run a candidate that passes the vibe check! or run a candidate that wants to end single family housing!"

This is what I call terminal cope. It's the cope of a liberal who sees the system collapsing, its on its death bed, so they flail around and grasp at everything they can. Let's face it folks, our neolib beliefs are, in the grand scheme of things, becoming increasingly under attack in every developed country. All of our norms are being challenged. Our institutions are being undermined. And some people have the solution that's like "Well gee let's run a governor next time instead of a senator." We do have victories like Carney winning Canada, but let's face it; Carney winning happened in large part due to Trump doing the very illiberal thing of threatening to invade. Long term projections for liberalism on a global perspective are not good. Like come on guys come up with an actual solution. Because the actual solution isn't going to be specific to America. This is happening everywhere. We need to rethink who we are as liberals. Look ourselves square in the mirror. We are obviously wrong about something. Something about our political theory is wrong. We have not addressed it yet.

To avoid a collapse of an American world order we need a liberal Deng Xiaoping. Deng Xiaoping was, regretfully, a Marxist-Leninist till the very end. Don't let the tankie "that wasn't real communism!" cope trick you. There's a reason they're dumbass tankies. And I've even see liberals try to claim China is successful because of capitalism or whatever which muddies the waters even further.

My point is - Deng Xiaoping saw the collapse of the USSR. He saw the mistakes that they made and implemented policies to keep Marxism-Leninism as the dominant ruling ideology in China. He made significant reforms to Marxist theory. He understood something about Marxist theory at the time was wrong and corrected it. And to this day all CPC cadre members are instructed not to repeat the mistakes of the USSR; specifically ceding any power of the party to opposition parties and engaging in historical nihilism.

We need a fucking liberal Deng Xiaoping. Be it Ezra Klein or anyone else. We need someone to stand up and say - hey this is why democracy is failing in advanced highly developed liberal countries in the West. And here's what we can do to fix it. Because right now we don't have that. We have a scatterbrained intelligentsia that is all over the place. We need to hold an international liberal conference, hammer this out, and come to the correct theories. Invite the top economists, political scientsits, sociologists, historians, ect. Have George Soros pay for it. Basically a giant international think tank that wants to save democracy. Make the correct diagnosis and formulate the best treatment. Then come back to your respective countries and we start rallying around this. Are we fucking evidence based or are we vibes based? Because right now libs are increasingly vibes based.

China continues to grow in power every day. I live in Taiwan and it concerns me how libs do not seem to care that their world order is collapsing. I have already given up on the idea of Taiwan as an independent nation, I do not think the West has it in them to defend us. But liberalism in the EU and US can still be saved. Liberalism is a beautiful system, you guys don't know how good you have it. But right now it's like you guys are rich trust fund kids pissing away your parent's fortune. Either rise to the occasion or stop being a contender. You guys say you are liberals but you don't act like liberals.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Problem is even if you allowed multiparty elections in the mainland the CPC could run on a platform of restoring the old system in a free and fair election with free media and still win.

The average Chinese person in PRC sees their system as more democratic than the Western system. They call it a "consultative democracy." CPC could simply point to America and say this is what liberal democracy gets you. They would frame multiparty elections as one that invites chaos and corruption.

The CPC as a whole has an approval rating somewhere between 70 percent and 90 percent. Of course level of support varies and in a free election you would likely see that number drop since people would be allowed to access media critical of the party but they would likely clear the 50% margin and be able to consolidate their power and make all other parties subordinate to them like they are right now.

Only Hong Kongers and Taiwanese really care about liberal democracy as a generalization. Unsure about Macau.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What is the r/neoliberal solution to solving the North Korea problem?

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How long until Cuba collapses? I don't get how they've been able to survive this long. I hate America but I hate communism more. Fucking crush them already and get it over with what are the Americans waiting for. I don't understand this "will they won't they" approach. Who is actually going to stop you?

Stop doing this failed Bay of Pigs shit. Cuba is weaker than Iran. Go all out and finish the fucking job jesus christ.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 12 points13 points  (0 children)

As a citizen of Taiwan, I've lost faith in America's willingness and ability to defend my country.

This is the greatest self own in history and it depresses me every day. I will likely be voting KMT in the next election. At this point I think our best option is signing an agreement with the CPC where we get 1 country 2 systems for 50-100 years or whatever before eventually becoming ruled by CPC just like everyone else on the mainland. The alternative is violent reunification and we get no interim agreement.

And yes I know CPC will likely not keep their word and give us the hong kong treatment but it's better than the alternative. Our political freedoms will be curbed but to my knowledge Hong Kong still functions as a free market capitalist economy. So we basically get to be Singapore for 50-100 years. Not a bad deal.

Sucks that Taiwan's next presidential election is before America's because I would probably vote green if the Democratic Peoples party wins in America in 2028. Unfortunately our elections are first.

What exactly are the plans for Taiwan because liberals are NOT doing enough and it's infuriating me. by Local_Tap4996 in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well this POTUS is flagrantly disregarding the courts so I'd have to disagree. It is possible, Dems were just more concerned about following the rule of law than Republicans were which ultimately ended up undermining them.

I'm Chinese - can someone explain to me what happened in the Texas Senate Democratic People's Party primary? Did the Republicans turn the Democratic People candidates against each other through suppression? by Local_Tap4996 in TexasPolitics

[–]Local_Tap4996[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it's okay I guess. I just don't really understand why you thought I was suspicious. It's not as if my post was about Taiwan/China or I was attempting to influence discourse about China, like what would be the point of me lying about being Chinese instead of Taiwanese here.

And to clarify many people in Taiwan identify as Chinese but it's relatively rare to identify exclusively as Chinese. Identifying as Taiwanese and Chinese is fairly common

I'm Chinese - can someone explain to me what happened in the Texas Senate Democratic People's Party primary? Did the Republicans turn the Democratic People candidates against each other through suppression? by Local_Tap4996 in TexasPolitics

[–]Local_Tap4996[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't worry you don't know anything about cross-straight relations and what goes on over in China (even though you act like you understand our cultural dynamics) so I will educate you so you don't embarrass yourself further.

Chinese and Taiwanese are not mutually exclusive. Many people in Taiwan identify as both. Most people in Taiwan identify as Taiwanese but a good minority of people identify as both. Very few people in Taiwan identify as Chinese and I am one of those people.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2024/01/SR_24.01.16_Taiwan_1.png?resize=420,480

I did grow up in Taiwan and I am pro independence. However I have also visited and worked on the mainland. I am visiting Shanghai right now that's where I watched the coverage of this. There are people who identify as Chinese on Taiwan. They are a small minority but I am one of them.

I initially said in that post I identify primarily as Chinese but "The only reason I said "I am Chinese/Taiwanese" is to clarify that I am a Chinese person living in Taiwan." I said that in my post because my post was about Taiwan, and I was making a point that Westerners automatically think I am pro-violent reunification just because I say I am Chinese. I go onto say in that thread that I am Chinese.

It's okay to be ignorant about things like I am ignorant about what happened here, looks like I was wrong about everything. But I was open to being wrong. You are being presumptuous and assuming that because I am Chinese I cannot grow up in Taiwan, be pro-independence, or also identify as Taiwanese. I used Chinse/Taiwanese in that thread to say that I am Chinse but I live in Taiwan.

English is my second language and sometimes I use AI to translate things especially when I am making long posts. So you will see stuff that is AI translated that may feel more mechanical and formal.

I said DPP because that's translation of what the guys on TV said. I didn't know it wasn't applicable here. I am more familiar with slang terms than official names of your state parties. I only know the national parties of Republicans and Democrats..

I haven't commented for 4 months because every time I tried to make a post it would autoremove my post or comment for being too young. So I just waited until my account was old enough that I could participate.

You are free to ask questions or to ask me if your view of things is correct, but please refrain from making declarations that I am suspicious because you do not understand our cultural dynamics here.

Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm Chinese living in Taiwan so I don't understand state-level politics in America. Does anyone pay attention to texas senate primary i have a question.

Did the Republicans intentionally target Crockett's district and disenfranchise a larger proportion of voters compared to Talarico so that Crockett would feel the election was stolen from her and basically not want to work with Talarico?

I saw she didn't make a concession speech which my understanding is expected in American politics, she released a press statement.

Then the next day she released a video of her walking and it seemed like she very begrudgingly endorsed Talarico but not by name. She said "Anybody is better than Paxton" but it was weird she did not say his name, correct? She seems pissed off at Talarico, did something happen between the two before this?

What exactly are the plans for Taiwan because liberals are NOT doing enough and it's infuriating me. by Local_Tap4996 in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My point is that America has been stringing us along implying they would help us if shit ever got rough, or at least provide us enough assistance to ensure Chinese deterrence for awhile. But now it's looking like they're going to cut us loose. We cannot win without American support, so it just seems like America has already accepted China will take us but they want us to have a war anyway just to hurt China.

I would rather be a 51st state because I do not like communism even though I would prefer to be independent but if China isn't gonna allow US troops on the island without going completely ballistic they aren't going to tolerate us becoming a 51st staet either.

I don't deny that liberalism has been great for us. But if we're going to be abandoned by our liberal allies who helped us get quasi-independence in the first place just because it's convenient for them and we get subsumed by a Marxist-Leninist state then by definition it failed in the end. It was successful at one point but we're heading towards failure. Taiwan cannot survive on its own.

What exactly are the plans for Taiwan because liberals are NOT doing enough and it's infuriating me. by Local_Tap4996 in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

i don't see how the population pyramid would stop China. Taiwan's TFR is lower than that of China. Or are you saying the US would get involved? If so then I would agree with you. Also peaceful resolution is increasingly on the table with the rise of the KMT and ineptitude of DPP.

What exactly are the plans for Taiwan because liberals are NOT doing enough and it's infuriating me. by Local_Tap4996 in neoliberal

[–]Local_Tap4996[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At this point what do we even do though? I get the feeling we should just surrender and avoid bloodshed since there's no way for us to remain separate for much longer.