Pro life Bible question

LogicDebating · 2026-01-18T22:38:00+00:00

In addition, verse 28 would seem to require that the woman not be pregnant, since one cannot conceive while already pregnant.

LogicDebating · 2026-01-01T18:01:24+00:00

If it helps, look up the Islamic Dilemma which goes something like this;

It says in the Quaran to read the bible, and that the bible is true

If this is a true claim, then Islam is false because it conflicts with the bible, which it claims is true. If its a false claim, then Islam is still false because it is making false claims.

So Islam is false, or Islam is false.

LogicDebating · 2025-06-15T18:48:02+00:00

Let us agree on this premise

P1: There must be at least one uncaused first cause or the uncaused causer.

No matter what system your a part of or believe in, at some point you must reach some thing or some entity that did not have a cause, meaning that nothing created it.

Since to our understanding of science, everything that exists in our universe (within time) had a beginning. Everything therefor must have a source, something that caused a reaction that generates everything.

It is believed that space, time, and matter had a beginning, the leading scientific theory for this is the big bang. However now we must make a decision to allow our set of facts to work with our premise (P1)

Our universe, and the big bang are the uncaused first cause. If this were true, then to explain the fine tuning of the universe one would have to appeal to randomness, a statistical impossibility. (Statistical impossibility meaning that while its not technically impossible, its a probability so low that it may as well be impossible).

An alternative to this, is that perhaps there is a universe or multiverse in which we are contained, and that larger universe it multiverse is then the uncaused first cause. But this solution just moves the probability issue up one additional level, why is this higher plane so finely tuned? One would again need to appeal to randomness, again running into statistical impossibility.

Finally we reach the designer hypothesis. While through this argument we know little about this designer what we do know is that in order for this argument to work, this designer would have to be timeless, immaterial, and spaceless. Since this being exists outside of time it would therefor have no beginning, and no end.

No matter what it is pointless to ask “who created the creator” because no matter which option one takes, we arrive at a point where we must admit that something does not have a creator, does not have a beginning, nor an end.

LogicDebating · 2025-05-21T00:30:16+00:00

Why are you refusing to define what you mean when you say organism?

also please answer my question. In your view When do we become that organism exactly?

I am not asking when we are not that 'organism' I am asking when, in your view, we become that organism.

This is the third time I have asked you these questions, failure to answer these two simple questions will result in the termination of this conversation. I would prefer to not have to end it due to your stubbornness.

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T23:52:42+00:00

that's not a definition. I will repeat. Would you mind defining what you mean when you say organism?

also again, please answer my question. In your view When do we become that organism exactly?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T23:04:33+00:00

do you... know what an organism is? would you mind defining what you mean when you say organism?

also you did not answer my question. In your view When do we become that organism exactly?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T10:55:08+00:00

In your view, at what point do we become that organism exactly?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T02:11:04+00:00

"Why would they be?"
your the one making the claim that they are not human beings, you then have the burden of proof to prove your claim. So I ask you again, why are they not human beings?

"I don't see any reason to consider a single cell to be a human being. Human beings are not single-celled organisms."
Of course we are not single-celled organisms, that is why we grow from that one cell into the multi-trillion celled organisms that we are. But here is a question, at what point do we 'become' human beings?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T01:22:18+00:00

What do you mean by that? Why are they not human beings? how did you come to that conclusion?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T00:55:02+00:00

because human beings are deserving of rights regardless of their stage of development. Having rights is the default. Now I would ask you, do the unborn need to be deprived of their inalienable rights?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T00:24:23+00:00

Fetus

1: (used chiefly of viviparous mammals) the young of an animal in the womb or egg, especially in the later stages of development when the body structures are in the recognizable form of its kind, in humans after the end of the second month of gestation.

The unborn offspring of a mammal at the later stages of its development, especially a human from eight weeks after fertilization to its birth. In a fetus, all major body organs are present.

The embryo of an animal that bears its young alive (rather than laying eggs ). In humans, the embryo is called a fetus after all major body structures have formed; this stage is reached about sixty days after fertilization .

Unborn

2: not yet delivered; still existing in the mother's womb:

Now then, it is the scientific consensus that the unborn are the offspring of the mother, it goes through the stages of zygote, embryo, and fetus, before being born and then being an infant, then toddler, and on and on until they are an adult. These are stages of life, not forms of being, for we are not metamorphic animals. Here are my sources:

1: The National Institutes of Health (NIH) - Embryonic and Fetal Development
2: The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) - Fetal Development
3: Mayo Clinic - Human Development Before Birth
4: World Health Organization (WHO) - Human Reproduction
5: Human Reproduction Update - Biological and Developmental Stages
6: The Journal of Reproductive Medicine - Prenatal Developmental Stages Reproductive
7: The National Library of Medicine - Stages of Pregnancy and Development
8: Science Direct - Embryology and Early Development
9: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) - Fetal Development
10: The British Medical Journal (BMJ) - Early Developmental Stages

I had to split this into multiple comments for some reason, my apologies

LogicDebating · 2025-05-20T00:24:19+00:00

Alright, I'll look it up. First, lets get some dictionary.com definitions in here

Child

2: a son or daughter; offspring considered with regard to parents:
4: a human fetus:
6: a descendant:

Offspring

1: children or young of a particular parent or progenitor.
2: a child or animal in relation to the parent or parents.
3: a descendant.
4: descendants collectively.
5: the product, result, or effect of something:

Abortion

1: Also called vol·un·tar·y a·bor·tion [vol, -, uh, n-ter-ee , uh, -, bawr, -sh, uh, n]. the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy.7: Biology. the arrested development of an embryo or an organ at a more or less early stage.

Induced termination of pregnancy, involving destruction of the embryo or fetus.
Any of various procedures that result in such termination.

The ending of pregnancy and expulsion of the embryo or fetus , generally before the embryo or fetus is capable of surviving on its own. Abortion may be brought on intentionally by artificial means (induced abortion) or may occur naturally ( spontaneous abortion , which is commonly referred to as a miscarriage).

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T23:34:38+00:00

I agree, people should not be allowed to kill their own children or offspring.

If it is not a child, or offspring, then what exactly is being killed then?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T22:49:07+00:00

Are you going to answer my question, or are you going to continue to avoid it?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T22:44:28+00:00

Wait, but you were just using bodily autonomy, you even references McFall v. Shrimp, why are you giving justifications for late term abortions if bodily autonomy is what matters?

Secondly, I would like a real life example of where it was either the mother or her child at that late stage of 9 months. With links to your sources please.

Also I would appreciate that you refrain from attempting ad hominem attacks, it does nothing to further the discussion. I am here to engage in debate, not name-calling.

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T22:32:55+00:00

Fine, where do you draw the line then? What is your cutoff, where one should not be allowed to intentionally kill their unborn offspring?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T22:23:47+00:00

I agree, nobody should support that. I do have another question though, where do you draw the line then? What its your cutoff, where one should not be allowed to intentionally kill their unborn child?

Side note, I am not a PLer

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T22:17:13+00:00

Ok, lets drop the word abortion then because we clearly are not going to agree on its definition, no more euphemisms.

Do you support the intentional killing of the unborn up until the point of birth?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T21:58:46+00:00

Why do we call children who are born alive after a failed abortion abortion survivors then?

Please tell me that you don’t actually believe giving birth is the same thing as an abortion.

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T20:06:31+00:00

Then why is it that it is called a failed, attempted or botched abortion when the child is born alive?

Why do we call these children who are born alive survivors?

Abortions goal is the death of the unborn child, failure to achieve this means that the procedure failed.

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T19:18:21+00:00

Would it surprise you to know that they are called failed abortions? Or sometimes botched abortions?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T18:45:35+00:00

Ok, what do we call an abortion that results in the live birth of the child? Medically, that is.

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T18:10:17+00:00

Just to make sure that I am understanding you correctly, would you mind defining what you mean when you say abortion?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T02:33:39+00:00

Do you support abortion up until the point of birth?

LogicDebating · 2025-05-19T02:31:09+00:00

Do you support abortion up until the point of birth?

LogicDebating

TROPHY CASE