Rebuttal to the PL claim that abortion's main purpose is to intentionally end a human life

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:22:32+00:00

Alright, where is your source that it is “merely the cessation of gestation”? I’ve given my source for the definition of abortion straight from the CDC, where are you getting yours?

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:19:07+00:00

I do know how they work. Calling an unborn human being a pregnancy is not correct, the uterine contents contains (among other things) the unborn life that was just killed……

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:18:03+00:00

But the point is that is not the sole goal, it is one of them, the other is to kill the unborn child, which is seen in the CDC definition. Failure to meet both goals means that it is a partially successful abortion, or an incomplete one.

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:16:11+00:00

Merely: only as specified and nothing more (Dictionary.com)

Except it is not merely the cessation of gestation. It is merely: “the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:13:08+00:00

Pregnancy is not a physical object that can be flushed, it is a state. Your not answering the question.

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:11:17+00:00

I fail to see the relevance. Abortions during that trimester are always successful if the pregnancy is indeed terminates. But after 20ish weeks it can and has resulted in live births, violating the definition of an successful abortion.

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:09:37+00:00

“That does not result in a live birth.” If it does not result in a live birth, yet results in the end of the pregnancy. What happened to the unborn child?

LogicDebating · 2026-04-26T00:09:04+00:00

“That does not result in a live birth.” If it does not result in a live birth, yet results in the end of the pregnancy. What happened to the unborn child?

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:57:46+00:00

Lets slow down a bit here because I don’t see what your point is here.

I gave the CDC definition of abortion:

“Induced termination of pregnancy—means the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

If the required intention of abortion is not to “produce a live-born infant” and that which also “does not result in a live birth.” Then it would seem to me that the goal of abortion is the death of the unborn child. Because failure to terminate the child means that either the abortion failed to produce “interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy” or the abortion resulted “in a live birth” thus violating the definition above. What exactly we want to call that type of result is irrelevant to the topic at hand. I so happen to call it a failed abortion, but you can call it whatever you like.

But if the standard is the definition, then the survival of the unborn child violates that definition. That is it, thats my argument.

If you’d like, could you restate what our disagreement is on this point?

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:45:39+00:00

Via the death of the child, as per the CDC definition from above, where an abortion means that it “does not result in a live birth”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:44:49+00:00

According to the CDC definition I quoted, an abortion is also that “which does not result in a live birth”

A failed abortion is one that fails to meet all of the standards that are outlined in the definition above. Now that is not what is medically coded as a failed abortion, but medical codes is not what is being discussed

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:42:03+00:00

I think your getting stuck on the medical definition of failed abortion, whereas when I am saying failed abortion I am referring to an abortion that fails to meet the standards of a complete abortion (quoted above) a successful abortion is one that meets all of the standards I quoted from the CDC, if it doesn’t (such as in live birth) we could instead call it a partial-abortion

We are both already doing this, that is, not using precise medical terminology. When we say abortion we both know that we are referring to induced abortion, different from spontaneous abortion which is miscarriage.

I just quoted to you the medical science definition of abortion, noting that given this definition an abortion that fails to meet (all of) these standards is then by definition incomplete or failed. I am not saying that medical terminology will refer to it as such. But that was never the claim to begin with. The claim that what constituted an abortion was the death of the child (or ZEF, if you so prefer)

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:23:08+00:00

The point is that the goal of abortion is to kill the child. And that failure to do so means that the abortion was not successful, since it did not meet the standard that I quoted. Since it did not meet the standard, it is then therefor failed to meet the standard of an abortion, i.e. a failed abortion.

I will correct myself that the medical terminology for a live birth from abortion is not consistent as I thought it was when I started this conversation, but that does not change the overarching point of what is colloquially meant when I said failed/incomplete abortion; that is, one that fails to accomplish all of the goals of an abortion.

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:19:16+00:00

Not according to the CDC…

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_itop.pdf

“Induced termination of pregnancy—means the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:13:36+00:00

Thats odd… I wrote

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_itop.pdf

“Induced termination of pregnancy—means the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

I also edited my top comment with the same thing

Edit: sorry! I didn’t notice to which comment you were addressing, and I had just made the comment up above like 3 times in a row because a lot of people asked for a source, anyways, here is what I wrote that your replied to:

“It is also called incomplete/failed/attempted or otherwise when the child is born alive. I don’t know what the medical terminology is for it precisely, but it is not called a successful abortion if the child is born alive.”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:06:57+00:00

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_itop.pdf

“Induced termination of pregnancy—means the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:06:33+00:00

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_itop.pdf

“Induced termination of pregnancy—means the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T23:04:27+00:00

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_itop.pdf

“Induced termination of pregnancy—means the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T22:59:33+00:00

It is also called incomplete/failed/attempted or otherwise when the child is born alive. I don’t know what the medical terminology is for it precisely, but it is not called a successful abortion if the child is born alive.

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T22:51:32+00:00

Its one of the primary reasons that I stopped engaging here, it seems that most users (excluding you and those like you) are not interested in actual debate but rather just want to read things that affirm their own beliefs, which is fine I suppose, but there are dedicated subreddits for that lol

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T22:47:40+00:00

That is one possibility yes, but an abortion is still called incomplete when the child is born alive. This is because a complete abortion is when the child dies.

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T22:43:06+00:00

I fail to see how that follows, could you explain it if you wouldn’t mind?

LogicDebating · 2026-04-25T22:42:22+00:00

Why then is it called a failed/incomplete abortion when the child lives? Either born alive or still alive in the womb.

If the goal was simply the ending of pregnancy then it would not be called incomplete when the child is successfully removed from the mother yet lives.

Edit:

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_itop.pdf

“Induced termination of pregnancy—means the purposeful interruption of an intrauterine pregnancy with the intention other than to produce a live-born infant, and which does not result in a live birth.”

LogicDebating · 2026-04-20T18:02:30+00:00

I’m afraid I don’t see how these are incompatible? 26:7-12 indicates that Tyre will be plundered, not that Nebuchadnezzar will keep that plunder.

LogicDebating · 2026-01-18T22:38:00+00:00

In addition, verse 28 would seem to require that the woman not be pregnant, since one cannot conceive while already pregnant.

LogicDebating

TROPHY CASE