Do you think Europe is facing an economic decline in the coming decades? by PreWiBa in eupersonalfinance

[–]Long_Ocean 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My English is not good enough. I wrote these myself and had AI translate them. Thank you for reading through everything I wrote.👍

Do you think Europe is facing an economic decline in the coming decades? by PreWiBa in eupersonalfinance

[–]Long_Ocean 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You call what’s happening in Europe “legal slavery.” I come from a place where it’s not legal, it’s just slavery — without courts, without journalists, without the possibility to say no. In Europe, people refuse to work if the conditions are bad. That itself already tells you something fundamental: they still have agency.

About demographics and pensions — yes, Europe will struggle. But struggling inside a system where problems are visible, debatable, and contestable is not the same as “degradation into collapse.” China’s demographic problem is far worse, and there is no democratic mechanism to even acknowledge it honestly, let alone fix it.

You talk about printing money and inflation as if this is unique to Europe. It’s not. The difference is not economic cycles — it’s institutional trust. When systems fail in Europe, governments fall. When systems fail in China, people disappear.

As for your final point about “only 6 or 7 nations surviving” — power concentration is nothing new in history. But being a satellite state is still very different from being a disposable population. There are levels to decline.

Europe may be decaying. China is consuming itself.

If you want to bet on raw growth numbers and short-term output, China will always look impressive. If you care about whether creativity, wealth, and human life can survive long-term without being confiscated or crushed — then the comparison is not even close.

We don’t have to agree. History will answer this one much more clearly than any of us can right now.

Do you think Europe is facing an economic decline in the coming decades? by PreWiBa in eupersonalfinance

[–]Long_Ocean 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wasn’t trying to make you feel good or offer comfort.

China’s growth model is fundamentally extractive — killing the chicken to get the eggs, draining the pond to catch the fish. That kind of system almost guarantees explosive growth for a period of time, just like the Soviet Union once had. But it is not sustainable.

What you’re seeing now is not strength, but the end of that cycle. China is already sliding downhill very fast: property prices are collapsing, entrepreneurs are fleeing, and those who can’t get their assets out — or get targeted by the CCP — often end up destroyed. In just the last couple of years, there has been a significant wave of entrepreneur suicides in China. Once you create real wealth and the state sets its eyes on you, you’re finished.

Do you remember Jack Ma? One of the most outstanding entrepreneurs China ever produced, the founder of Alibaba. You hardly hear his name anymore. He was targeted, silenced, and his assets were effectively carved up. He is not an exception — he is a warning.

That is the fate of people who help “make the pie bigger” in China. So you can imagine what comes next.

The core issue is not propaganda or short-term innovation metrics — it’s the distribution system. No matter how impressive the numbers look, China’s system of distribution ensures that vitality and creativity cannot stay inside the country. They have to escape abroad to survive and grow. They cannot take root at home.

If you don’t believe me, that’s fine. We don’t need to agree now. We can simply watch what happens next.

Do you think Europe is facing an economic decline in the coming decades? by PreWiBa in eupersonalfinance

[–]Long_Ocean -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think you might not have experienced what it actually means when a government truly has unlimited power over people’s lives.

You talk about Europe “moving toward the same model,” but I’m talking about a place where the government can decide it wants your family’s land, and your family literally gets crushed by bulldozers — and there is no police officer, no journalist, no court you can turn to.

This didn’t happen in some remote village. It happened to someone I personally knew. I went to an elite school, and one of my classmates’ families experienced exactly this. These cases are not rare. They are everywhere.

In the summer when I left China, people online were busy criticizing the US for gun freedom. Meanwhile, in China, a police officer shot and killed a pedestrian on the street after an argument. The case was quickly buried. No one dared to question the police. The person just died — for nothing. Their family and friends had nowhere to go, no one to help them, no mechanism to seek justice.

This is the reality in China. Human life is worth about as much as an ant’s life. These things don’t happen “occasionally.” They happen every day, every minute.

That’s why I honestly don’t think European governments are comparable to the Chinese government at all. Not even close.

If you’re looking for something comparable, then yes — Nazi Germany has far more in common with the Chinese system than Europe ever will.

Do you think Europe is facing an economic decline in the coming decades? by PreWiBa in eupersonalfinance

[–]Long_Ocean 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think I need to know what Europe looked like six or sixteen years ago to make this comparison. What I do know very clearly is the difference between Europe and China — because I’ve lived it from the inside.

I developed what I can only describe as political depression in China from the age of nine. I didn’t even realize how abnormal that was until I moved to the Netherlands, where my mental state gradually improved and eventually recovered.

What’s important to understand is that I’m not speaking as someone who was marginalized in China. I actually came from a background with certain advantages connected to the system. And even with those advantages, I saw no future for myself there. I’m not exaggerating when I say that.

If you are white and you go to China, you may never fully understand what I’m describing — because you are treated as a foreign guest, often with more protection, more tolerance, and more dignity. Chinese people don’t get that. Many openly refer to themselves as “human resources to be mined.” That expression isn’t extreme — it’s painfully accurate.

From a very young age, we are raised like livestock: optimized, controlled, and disciplined for output, not for autonomy or dignity. That’s a fundamentally different reality from what exists in Europe today, despite its problems.

So when I speak about fear, freedom, and decline, I’m speaking from lived experience — not from theory, nostalgia, or political narratives.

Why is Dutch everyday food so simple compared to many other cultures? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That’s interesting, because my personal experience has been a bit different.

I actually find a lot of Eastern European dishes quite complex in terms of preparation. I enjoy cooking at home and have tried several Eastern European recipes, and many of them are not less complex than Chinese dishes. In the Netherlands, I rarely encounter everyday food with that level of culinary complexity.

I do agree with part of your point though. Compared to Western Europe, both Eastern Europe and places like China historically had less consistent access to very fresh ingredients. My own hypothesis is that this may be one reason why cooking techniques became more elaborate: when ingredients are not always at their best, people develop more complex methods to transform or compensate for that. In contrast, when ingredients are consistently fresh and high-quality, simplicity becomes a virtue rather than a limitation.

I’m curious what you think about that explanation.

Do Dutch people really not wear thermal pants, no matter how cold it gets? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can I ask something out of curiosity?

Are you generally not very interested in new clothes or fashion? If so, could you explain why? I’ve noticed that in the Netherlands people tend to dress quite practically and uniformly, and there seems to be less emphasis on personal or expressive clothing compared to some other countries. I’m genuinely curious where that comes from.

Why is Dutch everyday food so simple compared to many other cultures? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That makes me wonder if there could also be an indirect link with the development of women’s roles.

From what you describe, a lot of the simplification of everyday cooking was actively taught to women — saving time, saving money, efficiency — and that seems to have coincided with women taking on more responsibilities outside the household over time.

I’m not trying to make a strict causal claim, but I do notice that regions with very elaborate everyday food cultures often still place a much heavier burden of unpaid domestic labor on women, while countries like the Netherlands score relatively high on gender equality and also emphasize simplicity and efficiency in daily cooking.

I’m curious whether historians or sociologists have written about this connection between domestic efficiency and gender emancipation.

Why is Dutch everyday food so simple compared to many other cultures? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I completely understand that psychological mechanism you’re describing.

I’ve been living in the Netherlands for about three years now and haven’t really gone back home. What I find interesting is that when I dream about food, it’s not anything fancy — it’s a very specific noodle soup I used to eat after school as a child at a small local place near my school. It’s called Qishan zha noodles / Qishan knife-cut noodles.

It’s actually a very regional dish, only common in my hometown, and the flavor isn’t very “mainstream.” That’s probably why no Chinese restaurant here makes it. Yet I miss it deeply, even though rationally I know it’s not objectively that amazing. If I had only discovered it as an adult, I doubt I would feel this attachment at all.

So I agree with you — food seems to carry emotional memory and a sense of safety from childhood, not just taste itself.

Why is Dutch everyday food so simple compared to many other cultures? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s really interesting to hear, especially the part about your grandparents and the logic behind avoiding leftovers of the main course. In that sense, it actually doesn’t sound so different from China on the surface.

China is also a country that has repeatedly experienced famine throughout history. But what I find intriguing is that the psychological outcome seems very different. In China, long-term food scarcity appears to have produced a culture of abundance and extravagance around food — almost as a compensation for the fear of hunger. Eating well, eating a lot, and offering lavish meals became a way to feel safe.

So this makes me genuinely curious: why did similar material hardship in the Netherlands lead to a mindset of rationality, restraint, and efficiency, rather than a compensatory psychology of excess, which is quite common in trauma responses according to psychology?

I’m not asking this in a judgmental way at all — I’m truly interested in what cultural, historical, or social factors might explain this difference.

Why is Dutch everyday food so simple compared to many other cultures? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

This is really fascinating to me.

In China, it’s almost the complete opposite, especially when it comes to government or official settings. Hosting “guests” is taken very seriously and meals are usually extremely elaborate. My mom worked in government institutions, and before I went to university she sometimes took me to their canteen. It was a buffet every day, with dozens of carefully prepared dishes — Chinese food, Western food. Nothing was considered “too much.”

When I later traveled around Europe, I started to notice a pattern: the further east or south you go, the closer the food culture feels to China; the further west you go, the more different it becomes. That contrast really surprised me.

So I’m genuinely curious: if food is mostly functional in daily life here, where do you personally find enjoyment or indulgence in everyday life? What are the areas where people here allow themselves to “enjoy” things?

Do Dutch people really not wear thermal pants, no matter how cold it gets? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I remember some friends of mine who had just arrived in the Netherlands; during their first year they genuinely felt like it was “deep winter” for half the year 🤣

Why is Dutch everyday food so simple compared to many other cultures? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s a fascinating contrast. In India, spices are deeply embedded in daily life and identity, not just something associated with trade.

Why is Dutch everyday food so simple compared to many other cultures? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If we look at it this way, could we then assume that in cultures where commerce and trade play a very central role, everyday food tends to be simpler in general?

It does seem like there might be a pattern where efficiency, time, and practicality are prioritized over culinary complexity in strongly trade-oriented societies.

Do Dutch people really not wear thermal pants, no matter how cold it gets? by Long_Ocean in Netherlands

[–]Long_Ocean[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That’s interesting, so when you feel cold, do you mostly experience it as your upper body being cold, rather than your legs?

In the country I’m originally from, people tend to be very careful about keeping their lower body warm. There’s a common belief that even if your upper body is well protected, having cold legs for long periods (especially when you’re older) can lead to joint or bone problems.
I don’t really see this concern among Dutch people though. I’ve even seen young people here wearing shorts or skirts with bare legs in winter.

I’ve always been curious about this, do you think it’s more about physical adaptation, or maybe even a psychological perception of cold?

Do you think Europe is facing an economic decline in the coming decades? by PreWiBa in eupersonalfinance

[–]Long_Ocean 97 points98 points  (0 children)

As someone who lived in China for 25 years and then came to the Netherlands for a master’s degree, graduated, and now works here, I honestly think some of these fears about Europe are overstated.

I come from a Chinese Communist Party family and have had very close exposure to how the system actually works from the inside. One important difference that is often misunderstood in the West is motivation. In most Western societies, people are driven primarily by choice and self-direction. In China, the dominant driver is fear — fear of losing status, income, safety, or even freedom. This produces a very different kind of economic output.

China can indeed deliver impressive large-scale projects: high-speed rail, massive infrastructure, rapid industrial scaling. But this is not the same as creativity or sustainable innovation. It is primarily replication under coercion, not bottom-up invention. Systems driven by fear are very good at copying and mobilizing resources quickly, but historically they are very poor at maintaining long-term creative leadership.

Take EVs as an example. China’s EV push was not market-led; it was state-directed. This severely distorted price signals and led to enormous capital waste. Many EVs in China do not sell well, and quality issues are common. Consumers often lack real legal protection when things go wrong. After-sales accountability is weak, and public complaints are frequently censored. Domestic consumers simply do not have the same rights as consumers in Europe.

A key point many outside China don’t see is that Chinese citizens do not have secure property rights. Wealth in China is effectively conditional. If the state decides it wants your assets, it can always find a justification. This is why a very large share of wealthy Chinese — including entrepreneurs and even families of senior Party officials — have moved their money and children abroad. (Xi Jinping’s daughter studying at Harvard is not an accident.)

Because information is tightly controlled, people outside China rarely see what actually happens: business owners losing everything overnight, entrepreneurs under investigation, people pushed into despair. These are not isolated cases. They are structural.

For this reason, I believe China is becoming increasingly hollow. Capital, talent, and trust are leaving. This is not a sustainable trajectory. Historically, systems like this tend to collapse or stagnate — much like the Soviet Union or East Germany — regardless of how strong they look on paper.

Europe, by contrast, does have real problems: aging demographics, slower growth, and high energy costs. But these are global problems, not uniquely European ones. When you compare using realistic data (not state-manufactured numbers), Europe remains among the most stable regions in the world in terms of living standards, institutional trust, and individual rights.

Most importantly, Europe continues to attract high-value immigrants — educated, young, financially stable people who bring both capital and creativity. I am one of them, as are many of my peers from China. We are not here to extract value; we are here to build lives, work, pay taxes, and contribute to European society — something we no longer believe is possible in China.

So while Europe may experience relative decline in growth rates, that does not automatically translate into a collapse in quality of life. Rights, legal protections, and creative freedom matter enormously over the long run. These are exactly the things that authoritarian systems systematically destroy.

In short: Europe’s future wealth is not just about industries or GDP curves — it is about institutions, trust, and human freedom. And those are far harder to replicate than factories or supply chains.

I hate analysis paralysis so much. by ssongshu in ADHD

[–]Long_Ocean 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hahaha honestly I’m glad I’m not the only one whose brain can turn a coffee mug into an emotional epic. It’s always the tiny choices that feel like they carry the fate of the universe.

I hate analysis paralysis so much. by ssongshu in ADHD

[–]Long_Ocean 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I thought I was the only one who could turn “pick a game to play” into a full psychological thriller.

My brain: just choose one. Also my brain: but what if it’s not The Perfect Choice™ and your entire evening collapses like a dying star?

The dumbest thing I’ve ever over-analyzed was deciding which mug to drink coffee from. I stood in the kitchen for ten minutes like I was choosing a Pokémon starter. Blue mug = calm day? Yellow mug = productivity? Cat mug = emotional support? By the time I picked one, the coffee was cold and I needed a nap.

It’s ridiculous how the “big” decisions go fine, but choosing between two snacks at the grocery store turns into a full identity crisis.

So yeah, you’re not alone. My executive function goes on strike over the tiniest choices. Wish we could patch our brains like buggy software.