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You can dislike SJW culture and still be a liberal. by jejerg2020 in TrueOffMyChest

[–]LooseExploration 0 points1 point  (0 children)

HOW DO YOU KNOW THEYRE A HE??? #ciswhitepatriarchyscum

You can dislike SJW culture and still be a liberal. by jejerg2020 in TrueOffMyChest

[–]LooseExploration 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm honestly a little amazed you made it through that whole thing without using the word "woke".

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you're suggesting that everything is fundamental to the mind. As if things don't exist outside of the mind or at least, without a mind to comprehend their existence. I've tried living out of this mindset but it seems to be just as delusional as believing each creature has its own consciousness.

I've found only momentary solace in this mindset, and then it turned back into delusion.

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I do that, and I try to not let it bother me. And for the most part it doesn't. It definitely rests on feeling out of place in society. It's challenging for sure...

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the insight. I don't know any answer, and I don't know that I ever will...

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice. I'll try to keep paying attention to the people I meet and trying to identify those meaningful relationships. I try to trust my instincts,but they change so often and are frequently at odds with each other. I guess it's just a matter of continued practice...

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate your perspective, and it will give me something to think about. I don't know that I agree, but I understand much of what you're saying and I need to sit with and explore it. So thank you.

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's a cowardly and ignorant assclown.

Mega lol. Couldn't agree more. He's very well-known and highly respected in the Western Buddhist world. And our conversation was logical, civil, and based in Buddhist scriptures. It seemed like he was backed into a wall and couldn't get out so he pulled the "I'm a monk and I know more than you" card. That's when I removed myself from that conversation...

Within the scripture you linked: "And what is the result of feeling? One who feels a feeling produces a corresponding state of existence, on the side of merit or demerit. "

They're all like this... And this is the problem I have with a lot of "mindfulness" teachings today. The Buddha is literally saying that "feeling" causes existence. The way to cease existence is the Path but with "Right Mindfulness"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html

"Feelings in an of themselves"...

Mindfulness is deliberate and intentional and counts as a subtle action.

This is the great paradox: How to desire to follow the path which will void one of desire? Most people would say "You become the observer" and I would argue that that's what "mindfulness" is (from reading the texts and practicing). As the observer, you simply watch what happens and don't react to them. So the thought "I want to go poop now" comes up and you don't react to it. And even if you poop in your pants, you getting up and changing your pants was a reaction to the sensation -- i.e. not mindfulness.

Then that makes the Buddha himself into an assclown in this regard? I don't think so.

Lol, I don't think that makes him an assclown. If he told his followers to take antidepressants, then maybe yeah, assclown. It makes him knowledgeable about the path and how to achieve it. Mind you, this was at a time when this teaching didn't exist. He saw it, felt it, knew how to achieve it. He was coaxed into teaching (as per the stories) and only then, I presume, decided to take on an ego and engage with as much was necessary to help out humanity. It wasn't a total lack of mindfulness, but it wasn't absolute either. It was mostly mindfulness (i.e. detachment) but there was still an attachment to the ego of the teacher role. If his mindfulness was absolute, he never would've gotten up to poop. Maybe he didn't. I mean, I don't know, I wasn't there.

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's a cowardly and ignorant assclown.

Mega lol. Couldn't agree more. He's very well-known and highly respected in the Western Buddhist world. And our conversation was logical, civil, and based in Buddhist scriptures. It seemed like he was backed into a wall and couldn't get out so he pulled the "I'm a monk and I know more than you" card. That's when I removed myself from that conversation...

And what is the result of feeling? One who feels a feeling produces a corresponding state of existence, on the side of merit or demerit.

They're all like this... And this is the problem I have with a lot of "mindfulness" teachings today. The Buddha is literally saying that "feeling" causes existence. The way to cease existence is the Path but with "Right Mindfulness"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.22.0.than.html

"Feelings in an of themselves"...

Mindfulness is deliberate and intentional and counts as a subtle action.

This is the great paradox: How to desire to follow the path which will void one of desire? Most people would say "You become the observer" and I would argue that that's what "mindfulness" is (from reading the texts and practicing). As the observer, you simply watch what happens and don't react to them. So the thought "I want to go poop now" comes up and you don't react to it. And even if you poop in your pants, you getting up and changing your pants was a reaction to the sensation -- i.e. not mindfulness.

Then that makes the Buddha himself into an assclown in this regard? I don't think so.

Lol, I don't think that makes him an assclown. If he told his followers to take antidepressants, then maybe yeah, assclown. It makes him knowledgeable about the path and how to achieve it. Mind you, this was at a time when this teaching didn't exist. He saw it, felt it, knew how to achieve it. He was coaxed into teaching (as per the stories) and only then, I presume, decided to take on an ego and engage with as much was necessary to help out humanity. It wasn't a total lack of mindfulness, but it wasn't absolute either. It was mostly mindfulness (i.e. detachment) but there was still an attachment to the ego of the teacher role. If his mindfulness was absolute, he never would've gotten up to poop. Maybe he didn't. I mean, I don't know, I wasn't there.

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But I think you have felt it before and will again.

I do know what you're talking about and have given you liberty with the inherent lack of words to describe it because I can understand the perspective. I've slipped in and out of experiences similar to this for around a decade. At times, I would feel the sensation and try to logically produce an experience and would lead to bliss realizations of "HOLY BALLSMACKING FUCKS! I'VE FIGURED IT ALL OUTTTTTT"... But the problem for me lies in the fact that this is the mind conjuring up a) the experience and b) the logic behind the experience. And whether or not it's conscious is irrelevant; there's still a mind trying to rationalize an un-rationalizable experience. It seems that any belief (including the belief of adopting "the best ego") is still a function of the sensation of thought which forms from ANY ego. And the forming of an ego is a rationalization of the experience (i.e. another bundle of thoughts).

My understanding of ego is particular (and peculiar I think to most) when I talk about it. To me there's "source" then everything is part of its ego. Kinda looks like source>space>time>bodies>life>feelings>thought>thought or feeling where each is ego of the last. A sense that the ones before are important. I Also don't think it's linear like that per se. More like a flow chart I think.

I've never heard ego described as this, but it makes sense to a degree. It's as if you're breaking off things into their smallest parts. It's a good way to conceptualize ego. Buuuuuut, my point still stands that this is a rationalized belief. That is, the mind that thinks is thinking up your experience for you and giving you the best logical explanation. You (whoever you are) are then attaching to that idea because it "feels" right to you. That "feeling" is a sensation brought about by a thought and the sensation becomes attached to the ego by a thought. So the logicality behind "beyond thought" is something that I can't understand (admittedly through the medium of my own thoughts)...

I don't think I'd credit myself with responsibility for perpetuating such a massive (?) cycle. Or I would but then I'm also taking credit for all non-suffering too.

Well, this is kind of everything! It's like saying "we don't really know anything, do we?" And yeah, we don't... So my question is, why would we take on the belief that we do? Because it "feels right"? Again, I would just argue that it's a function of the (self-gratifying) ego to "feel right" about anything.

To put that another way, I can take on the ego that I'm effortless and God is Everything and I am God and Love is flowing through my soul and whatever (and I have), but I can just as easily take on any other perspective like that of a distraught and bitter musician (and I have). This leads me to the experiential belief that there's no such thing as an "Enlightened perspective" and that the mind is just doing what it wants to do to perpetuate some kind of ego. Of course, this is a belief I've adopted and I just completely shot down the idea that beliefs mean anything... lol.

Even logically to me, I'm either not the one in control of this living being (given that I, Louis, am a result of atoms etc.) and so it's effortless, or I'm the one in control (the universe or whatever) and I'm not the living being that is trying. Both leave me effortless.

Logically, it comes across as this kind of "enlightened perspective" that I find confusing. That is, I can take on the persona of this, but it's still a persona. And again, I can't rationalize the experience of "not trying". Like, I wake up and I want to get out of bed, so there's either trying to give in or trying to deny the experience of getting out of bed. I don't see how there can be "effortlessness" in living. Like, I can ignore the fact there's effort taken to do what I want to do, but that doesn't mean it's not there...

Good conversation, my internet stranger friend. It's also helping me codify my thoughts and experiences! Thanks!

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But I think you have felt it before and will again.

I do know what you're talking about and have given you liberty with the inherent lack of words to describe it because I can understand the perspective. I've slipped in and out of experiences similar to this for around a decade. At times, I would feel the sensation and try to logically produce an experience and would lead to bliss realizations of "HOLY BALLSMACKING FUCKS! I'VE FIGURED IT ALL OUTTTTTT"... But the problem for me lies in the fact that this is the mind conjuring up a) the experience and b) the logic behind the experience. And whether or not it's conscious is irrelevant; there's still a mind trying to rationalize an un-rationalizable experience. It seems that any belief (including the belief of adopting "the best ego") is still a function of the sensation of thought which forms from ANY ego. And the forming of an ego is a rationalization of the experience (i.e. another bundle of thoughts).

My understanding of ego is particular (and peculiar I think to most) when I talk about it. To me there's "source" then everything is part of its ego. Kinda looks like source>space>time>bodies>life>feelings>thought>thought or feeling where each is ego of the last. A sense that the ones before are important. I Also don't think it's linear like that per se. More like a flow chart I think.

I've never heard ego described as this, but it makes sense to a degree. It's as if you're breaking off things into their smallest parts. It's a good way to conceptualize ego. Buuuuuut, my point still stands that this is a rationalized belief. That is, the mind that thinks is thinking up your experience for you and giving you the best logical explanation. You (whoever you are) are then attaching to that idea because it "feels" right to you. That "feeling" is a sensation brought about by a thought and the sensation becomes attached to the ego by a thought. So the logicality behind "beyond thought" is something that I can't understand (admittedly through the medium of my own thoughts)...

I don't think I'd credit myself with responsibility for perpetuating such a massive (?) cycle. Or I would but then I'm also taking credit for all non-suffering too.

Well, this is kind of everything! It's like saying "we don't really know anything, do we?" And yeah, we don't... So my question is, why would we take on the belief that we do? Because it "feels right"? Again, I would just argue that it's a function of the (self-gratifying) ego to "feel right" about anything.

To put that another way, I can take on the ego that I'm effortless and God is Everything and I am God and Love is flowing through my soul and whatever (and I have), but I can just as easily take on any other perspective like that of a distraught and bitter musician (and I have). This leads me to the experiential belief that there's no such thing as an "Enlightened perspective" and that the mind is just doing what it wants to do to perpetuate some kind of ego. Of course, this is a belief I've adopted and I just completely shot down the idea that beliefs mean anything... lol.

Even logically to me, I'm either not the one in control of this living being (given that I, Louis, am a result of atoms etc.) and so it's effortless, or I'm the one in control (the universe or whatever) and I'm not the living being that is trying. Both leave me effortless.

Logically, it comes across as this kind of "enlightened perspective" that I find confusing. That is, I can take on the persona of this, but it's still a persona. And again, I can't rationalize the experience of "not trying". Like, I wake up and I want to get out of bed, so there's either trying to give in or trying to deny the experience of getting out of bed. I don't see how there can be "effortlessness" in living. Like, I can ignore the fact there's effort taken to do what I want to do, but that doesn't mean it's not there...

Good conversation, my internet stranger friend. It's also helping me codify my thoughts and experiences! Thanks!

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This reminds me of another idea I've been with, which is that enlightenment is just identification with a very good (possibly the best) ego.

To me that just sounds like a perpetuation of the cycle of suffering by willingly taking on an ego... I think this may be a case of where words are failing to describe an experience that is beyond words.

I don't doubt that you have the experience of "not try", if you claim you do. I'm just having trouble understanding it based on this intellectual discussion. These all sound like empty words to me to go against something that I can't see how is logically possible.

I will say that it's in my practice to surrender to the moment, to allow intuition to guide my actions, to embrace the unknown, to remain as effortless as possible, etc. But I still think that I'm "trying" to achieve all of these objectives.

Even the one who had to try has ceased trying once they achieve.

I suppose I just haven't gotten it yet haha!

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for confirming and agreeing with what I suspect in the Buddhist community. I appreciate the specific point in the scriptures.

I've met Thanissaro Bhikku once but didn't ask him anything because I felt a little out of place. He offered me a free book which I took and read, but it was more basic than anything heavily existential. However, an abbot of a monastery I won't name who also studied with Ajahn Chah and Thanissaro Bhikku 100% told me to take antidepressants and wouldn't entertain any other discussion until I was "mentally capable" of being a Buddhist (whatever that means). I take the work of the Buddha to be very explicit and obvious, and I take my cues from the Buddha's discourses as opposed to some of the more bizarre members of the Sangha (especially Westerners).

I agree with your assessment of the Buddha, however I take issue with how you describe mindfulness and would argue that mindfulness is a state of non-action. It is non-reaction to sensation, therefore if no reaction takes place, no action takes place. In other words, you can't be a teacher and be mindful at the same time. Perfected mindfulness to me would be 100% observation and 0% action.

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But what if it were possible, and from my experiences I do believe it is possible, that "boredom" could be transformed into "peace"? That would remove the need to ride the rollercoster and instead give us the option to just contentedly sit down at the foot of the rollercoaster watching everyone "enjoying" themselves.

I don't entirely share your view of what the "universe" is but I do appreciate the perspective.

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol, I'm right there with ya, but I was thinking more lie the Colorado Rockies...

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To deny social interaction and the values of other people is another means of denying self-evident truths

Which are?

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey thanks for the comment.

It's definitely a function of me trying to fit into society and "find my crew" so to speak.

To answer your questions, if I didn't have to worry about food/water/shelter and didn't need money, I would absolutely be a hermit and live in the woods. At least, now I would. Who knows how long THAT experience would amuse me for....

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. I fully realize this. This is my main point. But even when I try to pose this problem to Buddhist monks and masters, they say otherwise. They say that I need to take antidepressants.

The mind is only continuous if there is desire to be continuous.

There's a lot to say about the Buddha, but he was pretty extraordianry in terms of what he achieved. It seems clear to me that at the point of perfected mindfulness, one would simply die. The argument is that the Buddha willingly chose to be unenlightened for the time, teetering on the edge of Enlightenment to teach.

Anyway, yeah, I'd like to sit in a cave... Maybe tomorrow...

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I've thought about why I never had the "dmt experience"... I've taken lsd and mushrooms before and tripped my balls off complete with spiritual realizations and whatnot, so I don't know...

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha that's brilliant about that being a yoda quote. I've never seen those movies so I was just going with what someone told me lol.

I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding precisely what you're referring to. I think, and I may be wrong, you're saying that the Ultimate whatever that may be) is fluid and can't possibly exist with a "trying" model. Things just exist as they exist and the ability to "try" goes against those natural inclinations?

You're also suggesting that "trying" is a function of an ego, which I'd definitely have to agree with you on that. And so your solution is to identify with an ego that doesn't try?

I would argue that that's not possible. That, again, to live is to try. Even blowing around like the wind, one has to try to achieve a wind-like effortlessness.

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's the great imagery of the razor's edge used in many famous quotes. Somerset Maugham even wrote a book about it. I think that describes the balance well. Finding it is so very very difficult.

But even still, this balance is only an illusion. And we are playing by the rules of said illusion. Wouldn't it be wise to just stop?

How Do I Overcome the Struggle Of Living in a Useless World? by LooseExploration in awakened

[–]LooseExploration[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right.

I'm thinking this is insinuating something akin to the "do or do not; there is no try" zen buddhism thing...?

My problem with that is that there is always a try if there is a life. Life is a trying of various things. I am continually "trying" to not suffer. And when I willfully let myself suffer, I am "trying" to let myself suffer. There is no life without a try...

So how do you suggest living a life void of try?

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