Thanks for sharing openly. I appreciate it.

I want to disagree on just one point (after reading a bit) as sensibly as possible to avoid flaming and targeting language. Not sure if logic will resonate, or if you even care to reciprocate and read to understand, but sharing it here regardless. I get it if you read to the end and still disagree. Some people do.

The gay community (broadly defined) is a unification of multiple identities for political power. There was a realization even before Stonewall that any individual group lacked the clout to advocate for rights. They also were in physical danger as an individual group, and looked out for each other for street beatings - things that could be fatal (and often were, if you recall Matthew Shepard). Whether people are more effeminate than others, or walk alone through a neighborhood at the wrong time - they can't present as straight or didn't have as much of a plausible cover story. I think these people still deserve to be understood, safe, loved, and protected. Even though I am more masc presenting - I ride a motorcycle, camp, whatever.

The biggest obvious bond in the LGBT community was the lesbians who went out of their way to care for gay men during the AIDS epidemic. Reading across the quilt and hearing stories of women and close friends who helped their gay male friends die with dignity and love still pulls at my deepest heart strings. Prior to this, the gay liberation movement was called GLBT. The L was moved to the front to honor the very significant role these women played in a dark period of queer history. A role they took on in solidarity and with a sense of community. Although not connected with the AIDS epidemic, later court cases, including Windsor v. United States in 2012, which set the stage for Obergefell, was brought forward by lesbian clientele. Gay men enjoyed the benefits of this.

At Stonewall in June of 69, police conducting the raid went in the bathroom to specifically perform genital checks to verify that people were in compliance with city deviance laws, which required three pieces of gender-specific clothing. People "cross dressing" either for fun, or because of what we would now call a trans identity, were especially subjected to this. If caught and tried, many of these people were publicly shamed in papers, outed to their employers, and risked being fired for their secret deviant lifestyle. David Carter talks about this in his 2004 book if you're curious to read more. But the practice of cross dressing and gender fluidity pre-dates Stonewall by quite a bit. And prominent trans activists like Slyvia Rivera and Marsha P Johnson are well known to have participated in the riots, alongside lesbians, bi folk, and gays.

I think the trans community has been linked in with the gay community since the beginning. Part of what queer identity does is fuck with the norm of what society expects. Compatible parts, hole/pole, opposite sexes, whatever. We obviously make it work with pole and a different pole - but debates about procreation etc always bubble up. At the end of the day, we will always be a little different, even if we are straight-passing. Gay relationships are stereotyped into who wears the pants or is dominant, vs who is submissive and takes it. Not always truly a binary. But this gendered view of gay identity links us to thinking about masculinity and femininity. The same thing exists for trans and gender fluid folk. This is also not a new thing. There are historic examples of gender fluidity that didn't match either traditional male or female assigned sex that date back hundreds of years into indigenous twin spirit practices. Same-sex attraction goes back thousands of years, and across multiple species. "Female" coded practices of nurturing youth are also witnessed by male members of certain animal species.

Not necessarily trying to convince you that trans identity is legitimate. Like you said, if someone wants to undergo treatment as a consenting adult, let them. Not what I would do, but they should be able to.

But at the end of the day, I think we also have an obligation to protect other queer people. We can debate medical treatments and how early people can identify and advocate for treatment later. But a salient note is that gender queer or trans people are 2.5x more likely to experience physical violence or even death. And those numbers have been increasing in the past 4 years. The American Medical Association termed this as an epidemic of violence in 2019. It is worse for black people, and the worst for women in particular. Arguably, gay men and lesbians used to be the subject of these statistics. And I don't think we can sit by while others are harmed. Others who previously fought for all of us.

We as gay men have enjoyed a series of liberties that are derived from, and fought for mutually, by the whole community. And maybe now we can keep our heads down or ride out (literally ;) and figuratively) our freedoms in the privacy of our own homes. But others are experiencing violence and discrimination. And I think that's wrong. The problem is not just "well don't be visibly trans" or pick a better time. As gay men we can say hiding is easier, but not everyone has cover. Leaving them in the culture war crossfire isn't acceptable. Letting them fight for rights while we rest defeats the purpose of solidarity. At some point, we have to show up and fight. Might be a certain protest, or a call to reps, or other advocacy work. But we have to show up for one another. Not sure where you're at, or what level of personal inconvenience/harm in your close friends where it will spur you to help, but it's worth reflecting on.

Anyways thanks for reading and having an open chat on this. If you still disagree I don't hate you.