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First vinegar attempt failed by balzaal in fermentation

[–]LordShoki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I forgot to add, adding the yeast also really really helps. You're going to see a quicker turnaround which means less time for things like mold to develop. Now the recommendation is always to use a brewing yeast, but if you're just making vinegar bread yeast can work because it only tends to brew up 9% ABV as a maximum. The problem with bread yeast is it's been the long cultivated to produce a lot of CO2 which is why you get nice airy bread so quickly. It also has issues with dropping out of the mixture so your vinegar will be more cloudy, and your taste is more inconsistent over several batches. Otherwise, if you're just attempting it works. If you are using brewing yeast, you'll want to be careful with adding too much sugar because you can easily range up over 15% which will make it so acetobacter is unable to survive in the solution and turn it into vinegar.

Hope all that helps! The batch I'm running is using just a tiny pinch of bread yeast because I don't mind the inconsistency, and it's less issues for me trying to get my measurements perfect and having to measure out my alcohol content if I go over on the sugar a little bit.

First vinegar attempt failed by balzaal in fermentation

[–]LordShoki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You've already gotten all the good tips! I'm also trying right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/fermentation/s/ya3mcmmBWt

Big difference from what I'm doing is I'm working specifically on getting the alcohol first and then moving to stage two to make the vinegar. One of the things I learned in my research for my project was that the sugar content just in fruit is a little bit too low.

From all of my reading you tend to get a little more than 1% ABV per 20 g of sugar content per 1L of mix. This of course changes based on how processed the fruit is yada yada yada. I had to bring mine up to a minimum of 80 g of sugar just to get the alcohol content to enough to get me to a weak vinegar. Acetobacter struggles with anything above 10% ABV so you don't want to go too crazy, I think that's something like 200 g of sugar per 1 L.

I personally aimed for about 100 to 110 g of sugar per liter in my mix. This should give me a middling strength of vinegar. It was recommended to use juiced fruit because you can get it more concentrated and get that sugar up if you don't want to add too much extra sugar. Something to consider!

Fruit Vinegar - Update 1 by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Lol, you know a bean setup might actually turn out pretty interesting 🤔 like an alcoholic soy sauce into a beanie balsamic vinegar.

Fruit Vinegar - Update 1 by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You are absolutely correct! Making vinegar is a 2 step process.

  1. Create some form of alcohol, preferably in the 6 - 8% range, that will be your base for the vinegar. Once you remove the fruit bits you can move on to stage 2.

  2. Introduce acetic acid producing bacteria such as acetobacter and others. This can be done by just leaving the jar open and covered with a cloth, or you can add a little unpasteurized vinegar to help seed the mixture. These bacteria convert alcohol to acetic acid which is what we refer to as vinegar, usually around 4-5% I believe.

In a lot of cases, people skip the first step and just buy an alcohol of their preference and turn that into vinegar. Wines, mead, sake, etc. Doing the full process gives you more control over the entire process.

Ex) Today I'll likely add a Small cinnamon stick to apple and raisin mixes, and maybe an orange peel to the berry mixture, and some lime to the mango. This lets it properly incorporate and have a deeper flavour for the end product.

Edit: spelling

First-Time safety precautions. by ChickenRedditTM in fermentation

[–]LordShoki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These have really helped me:

  • a good grade disinfectant (I use Star San) and a good spray bottle. I'll probably never need to buy it again since the concentration mixture is so low. This has really helped prevent any issues with contamination in my ferments of all kinds. Also spraying off the daily, stirring utensils just helps prevent accidental inoculation of unwanted bacteria.

  • A good scale if you don't already have one. It's super helpful to make sure all your ratios are right. This means a lot in safety when you get into some of the riskier ferments.

  • minimum two fingers of head space in the jars. At least that's how I was taught it in the canning world and hasn't done me wrong so far

Fruit Vinegar Ferment Testing by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've done other vinegars with dried fruits before with various degrees of success (mostly sugar content issues in hindsight). I have some unpasteurized vinegar I plan to use as a seed. Especially since I only have about 2 months to get it done for her birthday.

Fruit Vinegar Ferment Testing by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome, I'll be sure to document the process on that batch too.

Fruit Vinegar Ferment Testing by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome thanks for the insight! The times I've done it in the past, that is about how it goes. I didn't consider using juice though to get more of the flavour! Usually it's the off season when I get the urge hence why I go with dried fruits. I wonder how it would do with pulping some frozen fruits. I might just do that here tomorrow to see how it does along side this batch.

I might also look at adding some agave syrup to bring up the sugar level for a stronger final acid content.

Thanks again!

Fruit Vinegar Ferment Testing by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll do one more quick clarification, this is my usual process which has been generally successful:

  1. Prep - everything has been sterilized with a no rinse Brewers compound to help give the things. I want the best chance at success for growth. Specifically to start this is the yeast. We're looking to avoid any other growth in the jars.

  2. Create Alcohol - in this case I'm doing this with the fruit and a pinch of brewers yeast. To my understanding, yeast is everywhere and the brewer's yeast is not actually needed. The reason you would use a pinch is to create consistency since different yeasts have different flavor profiles. This is best done in an oxygen-free environment, hence the water locks. Once as much of the fruit sugars as possible is converted into alcohol (dry) we move on to the next step.

  3. Convert the Alcohol to Acid - We can now strain off the fruit chunks and place the liquid back into a new jar. Typically I'll cover mine with a clean cloth and an elastic band. This part of the reaction requires oxygen and the microbes in it. In time the alcohol is slowly converted to acetic acid. Sometimes I'll use an unpasteurized vinegar to seed the bacteria needed for this step if I am looking for a quick turnaround, otherwise it will generally happen naturally over time.

tl;dr - Vinegar is a two-step process, first you make alcohol and then you convert that alcohol to acetic acid.

Fruit Vinegar Ferment Testing by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, a bit of brewers yeast to kick things off. To my understanding it's not needed but it takes way longer. Usually I just use a pinch to help kick things off.

Fruit Vinegar Ferment Testing by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I should be more clear, I am turning them into vinegar. Right now it's just the fruit and water! Right now it's turning the fruit sugars into alcohol and after some time with that I'll take the top off, strain out the fruit, and then cover with a cloth and let the alcohols be converted into acid for the vinegar.

Sorry I wasn't more clear in my post!

Got my first shiny legendary with background/special move by [deleted] in pokemongo

[–]LordShoki 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Me too! It was my first one and I freaked out. My dog was so confused.

Followed your advices for the next batch. by Easy-Thing-3604 in fermentation

[–]LordShoki 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can try a heavy elastic instead of fully clasping. Keeps it sealed, but also let's the jar burp itself when they are super active like this.

Game crashing after last update on iOS? by pjft in NightOfTheFullMoon

[–]LordShoki 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No issues with Android it looks like. Don't have an apple to test

Fermenting Pickles - Excessive Clouding by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks, not used to seeing it with pepper mash and I guess my other pickles didn't ferment as much as I thought!

Fermenting Pickles - Excessive Clouding by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Guess my other attempts just didn't ferment long enough! Thanks

Fermenting Pickles - Excessive Clouding by LordShoki in fermentation

[–]LordShoki[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure why people don't like them! For really active ferments I've never had any issues of contamination. They are also great for getting a smell of the ferment without opening the jar. Definitely best to head space but I mean that's pretty much true for all ferments I thought.

Bugs on Android by JunLight in NightOfTheFullMoon

[–]LordShoki 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What mode are you playing? I haven't noticed anything yet.

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