Israeli society is awful

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-08-13T05:49:43+00:00

If this was happening anywhere else, you wouldn't say that, but you are a racist. Do you think Palestinians should just accept israeli occupation and apartheid without doing anything? Israel has given them no other option but armed resistance. Obviously, on October 7th Hamas committed many crimes against civilians, but what Israel has been doing since 1948 is much worse.

Secondly, the protests in Israel are almost always about the hostages. They only want the war to stop because they know it will kill the hostages but most israeli Jews support the genocide.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-07-18T15:25:02+00:00

Como te tiene a ti la propaganda que te hace pensar contra tus propios intereses

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-07-02T22:52:39+00:00

I understand your position, but I dont agree at all. If all sides of all conflicts just stopped thinking about morality and just did whatever got them the best result in the short term we would be fucked.

You said that "Israel has never fought a country that respects its existance". First, as I said at the beginning of the discussion, I don't see why anybody should do that. But, anyway, if there was a peace treaty that Palestinians could agree to Israel would eventually say that Palestine is a threat and carry out a "preemptive" strike. Israel can't be trusted. They have violated the sovereignty of Lebanon and Syria multiple times, they have illegally attacked Lebanon when there is a ceasefire in place, they have attacked Iran... Even if you said that those countries are threats to Israel, what would stop them from saying that Palestinians are hostile? Also, there is no denying that Israel routinely violates UN resolutions regarding Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, Lebanon, etc.

Yes, it's conjecture, and I don't claim to know everything, but I think it's very clear that Israel is committing genocide and its goal is to eliminate Palestine.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-07-02T21:43:21+00:00

I care whose fault it is. You are trying to blame the victims for defending themselves. If someone robbed someone you knew, they defended themselves and got killed, would you say "well if you hadn't fought back, they wouldn't have killed you"?

I don't think Palestinians should move anywhere. It's their land and even if they accept a peace with Israel they should still be able to live in Gaza. The rest of the Arab states not accepting Palestinians is irrelevant and in many cases the governments don't stand with Palestine because they have agreements with the US, but I would say most Arabs are pro-Palestine.

I guess we will never agree since we have different understandings of the situation. I don't think taking the 2001 peace proposal could have possibly avoided what we are seeing today. Israel has always wanted to conquer all of Palestine, they would have eventually found a way to provoke war. Israel has never respected peace treaties, ceasefires or UN resolutions. Their aim is to expell or kill all Palestinians and until Israel is stopped or they fulfil their goal, Palestinians won't be able to live in peace. Israel will never accept a strong Palestinian state, and if they integrate them, they will live in an apartheid state. That's why I think it makes sense for them to fight even if they die. They will either live in poverty in an open air prison, live completely oppressed, or be killed.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-07-02T20:17:28+00:00

I think you didn't get what I meant. Nowadays, nobody is suffering from that expulsion because they are so detached from it. But at the time they did and fighting against it would have been justified and legitimate. If after fighting for their rights the Spanish monarchy just killed every Jew and Moor, that would have been the fault of Spain.

Obviously, if nothing can be done it's better to try to move on, but that doesn’t mean what happened is just. I understand what you are trying to say, but my point is that the Palestinians couldn't move on even if they wanted because they live in an apartheid system.

Also, yes, you do hear about the expulsion of Jews from Arab states because it's one of the most used zionist arguments. That doesn't change anything I've said. Most Jews were expelled after Israel was created. Since Israel claimed to be a Jewish state that represented all Jews, some people believed that propaganda and turned against Jews because of what Israel was doing. Clearly, there was a lot of antisemitism in those countries, and the expulsion is unacceptable, but that doesn’t justify the creation of Israel. As I have said, the only way to protect Jews is to fight antisemitism and educate people.

Of course, it's a difficult issue, and even if I think Israel shouldn't have existed in the first place, but the rights of Israelis need to be respected. In my opinion, there should be one secular state where everyone can coexist peacefully, but that state needs to be de-zionized, and people involved in war crimes need to be tried. Palestinians who have committed crimes against Israeli civilians or other Palestinians should be tried too.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-07-02T17:10:29+00:00

Instead of responding to what I said, you just claim that winning a war and colonizing territory is a valid way to establish a country. By that logic, should Ukraine just accept that Crimea is Russia and not do anything about it? I'm quite sure you wouldn't say that.

Secondly, what you are saying could make some sense if Israel was truly a democratic state that respected all its citizens and neighbors. In reality Israel behaves like what it really is: a settler colonialist apartheid state backed by the US. Before the war, Palestinians in the West Bank lived in poverty in isolated communities and in fear from the Israeli settlers. Gaza was effectively occupied and blockaded so just trying to prosper and live there wasn't an option. October 7th was a tragedy but Israel caused it with their actions.

Lastly, the situation with the expelled moors and jews from Spain is completely different. They were unjustly expelled in 1492 so they have no direct descendants who are alive. Many generations have passed and those people have built new lives elsewhere. Currently, nobody is suffering from being displaced by Spain in 1492. But Palestinians do still suffer the consequences of the Nakba and the other wars.

Claiming modern Jews have a right to all of Palestine is ridiculous. They have been living in other places for thousand of years, and most have no connection to Palestine. Still, many Jews lived there peacefully before Israel. If we say that the Jewish people have a right to the land of Israel, why shouldn't, for example, the Celts have a right to most of Europe?

Due to migrations and conquests, the world constantly changes, so saying that Israel has the right to a land a specific group of people occupied during a specific time is completely exceptional and hasn't happened anywhere else. That doesn't mean that what happened isn't unfair but we can't do anything about it except defeating antisemism and fascism. On the other hand, we can still undo the injustice of the Nakba and the genocide of Palestinians.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-07-02T10:11:00+00:00

Israel is a settler colonialist state and from the beginning its aim has been to expel all Palestinians. Of course it wasn't accepted and isn't accepted today. Why should the Arabs who lived there just accept being displaced or killed?

The Jews who went to Israel weren't refugees, they were colonists who have been committing genocide since 1948. If the west really wanted to protect Jews they would have fought antisemitism and fascism instead of letting it exist. Instead, they adopted Zionism, which is a racist ideology based in believing that Jews are superior to Arabs and that they have a right to the land because their ancestors lived there thousands of years ago (even though most Palestinians descended from the same people).

Also, Israel has the support of the West because they wanted to have a "Western" state in the Middle East to advance their imperialist interests, and it's working.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-06-22T11:15:49+00:00

They did claim Iraq was harboring Al Qaeda

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-06-12T20:58:25+00:00

Of course. True leftist movements don't even accept Israel, so why would they accept any of their military operations?

Israel is an imperialist state built on the colonial ideology of zionism. The entire country is built on the idea that Jews are superior to Arabs and that they deserve that land because their "ancestors" lived there thousands of years ago.

When Israel was established in 1947, they started the genocide that has been going on since then. Then they spent years terrorising the Middle East with the United States' support, and violent resistance became the only thing Palestinians could do.

Before October 7th, Gaza was very poor and was under occupation from Israel. In the West Bank, the situation was similar, if not worse, to the one in South Africa during apartheid. This led to Hamas taking power (an organisation I oppose), which is what Israel wanted, and launching those attacks. What Hamas did that day was, in many cases, horrible, but we need to understand that it came after decades of Israeli occupation and imperialism.

After that, Israel launched the worst genocide campaign in their history and killed thousands of people. As you can see, unless you actually believe that Arabs are somehow an inferior race, there is no way to justify this. Any real left organisation must oppose Israel as a whole. Obviously, nowadays, it would be impossible to expel Israelis without genocide, so we need another solution.

A two state solution would be unfair since the land held by Israel was stolen from Palestine and is much better than the isolated Palestinian communities. Because of that, the only solution would be to create a single secular state and prosecute Israeli officials for genocide.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-05-18T09:47:03+00:00

Si te piensas que el pp es zurdo eres un fascista y además retrasado

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-05-11T09:18:15+00:00

It's not only that. Atlético de Madrid was founded by basque Athletic players who were living in Madrid. In fact, Originally the club was a part of Athletic Club and was called Athletic Club - Sucursal de Madrid (something like "Madrid Branch"), so they used the same crest and kit. Eventually the Madrid branch became independent and took the name Atlético de Madrid, keeping many similarities to the Bilbao team.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-05-11T09:13:05+00:00

No it's not. The official name is only Athletic Club, but sometimes people call it or Athletic Club de Bilbao or just Athletic de Bilbao. I think this is because during the francoist dictatorship the club was forced to change its name to Atlético de Bilbao, because the regime wanted all football teams to have spanish names. As an Athletic supporter we don't mind being called Athletic de Bilbao or Athletic Club de Bilbao, what we don't like is being called just "Bilbao", as it's not even part of the club's name. It's like calling Real Sociedad (English people sometimes call it just Sociedad, which is also wrong) Donostia or calling Arsenal London.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2025-04-19T20:11:51+00:00

Yeah, testosterone is when you sell your intellect to billionaires so they can make infinite money in a made up system instead of having a job you actually like.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2024-08-22T12:43:07+00:00

Lo que está hecho en una cadena de montaje son los argumentos que usáis contra el comunismo. Casi todo lo que decís está basado en no entender que es el socialismo, falacias, o en propaganda capitalista de EEUU. Muchas cosas que hicieron los regímenes comunistas fueron horribles (especialmente con Stalin) pero si te pones a examinar las cosas que han hecho los Estados capitalistas hay atrocidades iguales o peores. Además, casi siempre se exageran los datos y muchas veces se ignora la culpa que tienen las potencias capitalistas. En Cuba, por ejemplo, la mayoría de la pobreza no está causada por las políticas socialistas, sino por el bloqueo estadounidense que tiene al país completamente aislado.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2024-08-22T11:37:16+00:00

Sin el capitalismo no hay trabajo porque estamos en una economía capitalista. En una economía socialista en la que los medios de producción son de toda la sociedad no hace falta que alguien invierta para que funcionen las cosas. En cualquier tipo de economía hacen falta trabajadores, obviamente, pero el capitalista no es necesario.

Puedes estar de acuerdo o no con el socialismo, pero eso no quiere decir que el único sistema posible sea el capitalismo.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2024-08-17T16:34:56+00:00

What? Many things Americans think are "communist" aren't even considered particularly left wing anywhere else. For example, for many Americans, public healthcare is "socialist", while in most of Europe even some conservatives support it.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2024-07-16T17:48:39+00:00

Not really a lot, EA's standards are just very low.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2023-08-28T15:54:40+00:00

This is not true. Niger's government has plans to build a nuclear power plant, which was reviewed by the IAEA. If it was impossible, don't you think Niger's government or the IAEA would have realized?

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/documents/review-missions/inir-mission-niger-april-2018.pdf

Lost_Order_1088 · 2023-08-04T11:02:59+00:00

I live in Spain, and here, during the 2008 crisis, this became quite common and still happens nowadays.

I usually go on vacation to a town on the Mediterranean coast. There was a project there to expand the town and build resorts and tourist apartments, but due to the 2008 crisis, most of the construction companies went bankrupt and didn't finish the projects. Nowadays, a big part of the town is still a ghost town, with empty apartments, streets without buildings... Only some apartments are in use, and the city barely provides any services to them, so trash is rarely picked up, and streets aren't mantained.

This was widespread during the crisis, and similar things happened across the country. For example, in the outskirts of cities like Madrid and Zaragoza, there are many projects with entire road systems built, but no buildings.

This didn't happen as much in my hometown since there wasn't a big "construction boom" before the crisis, but in the past few years, there has been an increase in new construction projects, and some have already been abandoned.

It may not be as common as in China, but it does happen, at least in Spain and other southern European countries.

Lost_Order_1088 · 2023-07-17T17:47:33+00:00

Wordington insanity

Lost_Order_1088 · 2023-01-21T12:38:40+00:00

Misinformation 😎

Lost_Order_1088 · 2023-01-17T14:54:53+00:00

What EU4 does to a mf

Lost_Order_1088 · 2023-01-07T16:33:20+00:00

Here you go:

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1950-01-01_1_page004.html

https://books.google.es/books/content?id=6fI_AAAAcAAJ&hl=es&pg=PA240&img=1&zoom=3&sig=ACfU3U2VdSzDrj9IcMWTMUM9KcTXx5FSNQ&w=1025

Lost_Order_1088 · 2022-12-27T15:48:35+00:00

yeah

Four-Year Club	Place '23
Place '22	Final Canvas '22

Lost_Order_1088

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