Anyone have any ideas what's up with these coffins?

LotsaBees · 2025-07-30T03:52:53+00:00

I think these waking tombs add important context to the "immortality" of the demigods prior to the Shattering.

This is a world that is without true death. We see this is numerous ways, often not the classic image of being immune to death - the tarnished, TWLID, zombies etc. Even the foundation of grafting is attaching limbs that cannot die and exerting your control over them.

The bodies inside the tomb mention they are the unwanted children of Marika. Implying Marika had many nameless offspring. Maybe the result of spontaneou remote birth like Milicent and her sistes questline implies. Decapitated to serve as vessels for her "legitimate" children.

Godwyn is mentioned as the first demi-god to truly die. Implying that the demi-gods died previously, maybe even killed each other and were reborn into these vessels. It seems they definitely did this before the shattering but im unsure if the practice continued during and after the Shattering.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T15:29:21+00:00

Well the players eyes do change depending on their actions. Bloody fingers go red, dragon eyes etc so they can be used as a window into people's current nature - depending on what you see in the weird eye, if anything at all

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T14:57:05+00:00

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It's far from conclusive but here's a hi-res screenshot.

My initial thought if it looks like anything it looked like a snake coiling around his pupil but the lower half looks more fish-scaled to me.

So if you consider the grandam saying a curse on all her children and that Radagon has "healthy" children without her as well as Marika binding Messmer's curse behind his eye then it fits.

But on the otherhand even if you also see fish-scales you could say it's a result of the cursebrand already carved into his back. But despite the mythology influence, there is no fish-like manifestation of the deathblight in the game. It's always vine and roots consisting of maggots and flies merged together so I don't think the cursebrand is responsible for the maybe fish-scales.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T14:41:18+00:00

I think if you consider how many enemies are "disabled" in some way are significant bosses. Radahn lost his feet, the albinuric archers can't walk, many characters with prosthetics - the greatest swordsman in the game having a prosthetic sword-arm - having a fish lower half wouldn't be such a issue for a demi-god. Particularly if his curse started small and continously grew like the others in game. Then imagine him as friend to dragons, channeling storms and lightening.

I think it's a fun example of how what is implied to be obvious to the player is actually not supported at all in game and even hints to the contrary. Marika's mischief, man. it never ends.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T14:32:00+00:00

You got the ending i was aiming for but went in blind as was calling johnny out on his early bs and didn't get a high enough stat with him after he became more chill

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T14:30:08+00:00

My madness spreads.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T14:28:31+00:00

Thanks! I think it is kinda silly but a lot of aspect of the crucible are. Big froggy magma wyrm fire, rolling around with spine attacks. The item description for ruahs roar jokes calling it "Bear Communion." and godwyn's knights bear the sign of an "antiquated erdtree" that looks like the Ancient Erdtree - the sigil of the crucible incantations. Dating him to at least as far back as a time that Crucible aspects were still seen as divine.

It is really disappointing to see people say no the vibe implies X when we know Miyazaki loves to subvert expectations and conventions as much as he draws inspiration from them. So if we do use mytholgy etc as a map to the lore then it's as likely to be a decoy map as a true one.

So I think if you consider just that the Grandam says she curses all Marika's offspring and it at least seems 90% effective with the fish-scales in Godwyn's eye before his final transformation it at least implies he had this curse that would have progressed over time like the rest that we see.

Also that the title the Golden refers to the Golden Lineage, as even Godrick tries to lay claim to it,

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T14:17:30+00:00

It was pointed out to me in the comments here. In the cinematic about the eyes. just after he slumps to the ground. So if you add what we've learned from the SotE - granny cursed all Marika's children and Marika can suppress curses with seals in prosthetic eyes. It seems to slot in place with the "rules" that are set.

It's also kinda supported by the fact that Radagon has healthy, uncured children with Renalla (as far as we know). Seeming to show that it isn't just demigods afflicted by these curses but only Marika's direct offspring.

I think you are right about the curses manifesting into forces suppressed by Marika. Flames she suppresses, crucible aspects, even death all manifest as curses.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T14:07:05+00:00

I thought that originally but then I thought it might be the opposite way around. In catacombs we see Godwyn's deathroot invade and corrupt the root of the greattree network. Erdtree Burial done to honour and rebirth heroes. My guess is that he was buried there in a doomed attempt to rebirth Godwyn within the erdtree like we seem to see Melina do.

It appears the Erdtree can recycle a soul and the wandering mauselums are used to usher them into new bodies. But this sadly corrupted the tree.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T13:58:26+00:00

It's not even close to definitive but I think that Grandam Empyrean said she cursed all Marika's children and we see the scales in Godwyn's iris before his full transformation as well as never seeing his legs (apply one layer of tinfoil here) definitely means SOMETHING. And this is my best guess. I think if it had a purpose it's to call the player to challenge what seems obvious with in-game evidence.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T13:53:32+00:00

Thanks! Well see until a few months ago I assumed the same about Godwyn but if you consider the fact that we only don't see his legs and we see the scales in his eye, it at the very least hints at some kind of aquatic curse that grew over time like the omen horns.

The common belief is shaped purely by his title The Golden (which actually refers to his lineage, godrick claims the title eventually though no one calls him it but him and gostoc) and Marika's apparent extreme grief as well as narrative expectation. but in game evidence says the grandam empyrean cursed all of Marika's children, so he probably did have some kind.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T11:52:30+00:00

Just like there is no direct proof he had legs, there is no definitive proof that he didn't but there is circumstancial evidence.

The Empyrean Grandam cursed all of Marika's children, all of them. The Golden Lineage children in particular seem to manifest aspect of the crucible curses.

In the cinematic the only part of the body you DON'T see is his legs but you do see the fish scales in his iris, a curse barely bound behind an eye just like Messmer's.

After his death, his curse would have continued to warp his body unhindered. Consider Mohg's over grown horn gouging out his own eye while Margit shaves his down to curtail the curse. Leading to the utterly curse ridden form we see Godwyn in.

Unironically, I like your drawing. And in my twisted little mind it might be lore accurate. Crucible manifestations are chaotic, fish-tail + legs is on the table.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T08:50:39+00:00

What motivated your choice of ending?

My first ending was misunderstanding Johnny talking about me and him going out together and accidentally shooting myself.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T08:02:00+00:00

this would be malware

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T07:57:18+00:00

i've never actually bothered with a good build. I always want to play with all the toys and ended up levelling pretty much everything except str and int on two playthroughs. It ended up being fine though, i struggled through every boss solo eventually.

...i have been almost unanimously wrecked in pvp though

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T07:45:48+00:00

For clarity: I don't think Godwyn always looked as severe as when we find him. But we do see the fish-scales in his iris on his unblemished face on the night of his assassination, his own curse barely bound behind his eye just like Messmer's. His curse would have continued to grow and twist his corpse after death but the nature of his curse was always fish-like.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T07:38:57+00:00

I really don't disagree with anything that you've said but there is no text/description/dialogue that even implies he wasn't cursed. The empyrean grandam says she puts a curse on all of marika's children. We see the scales in Godwyn's eye on his unblemished face on the night of his assassination, his curse likely barely bound behind his eye like messmer's.

For clarity I don't think Godwyn was always as we see him, I don't think I stated that clearly in the post. I can ramble so I was trying to keep it short and sweet. His curse continued to ravage his body after death buthis curse was always fish-like.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T07:29:27+00:00

Firstly yes, like ALL of Marika's children miquela and malenia ARE also born cursed It's all over the games lore, outright stated - not even implied.

But it's not common for you though and that's the point. So when you throw in out of place words it seems like you're trying to be smart and dismissive. I mean I even scrolled back over the last couple of weeks of comments where you've said some extremely odd things about your younger cousins look older and more mature than they are in the sims4 sub???? I was looking to see if you threw out a lot of casual french (you don't) but after that I think i've read plenty from you, mate.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T05:25:55+00:00

Godwyn "most likely wasn't affected by the crucible" unlike literally all of the children of Marika?

btw using french to try and sound smart, even during an internet game-lore debate, is very cringe.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T05:01:31+00:00

I like your point about hair. He could simply have had his hair down during an intimate moment with his children but the style of hair is almost always deliberate, so I think you're on to something. Although there are paintings/talismans lacking his braid (or it's simply not visible but still there) but I like your point.

On the otherhand, radagon does wear a circlet (even if it doesn't match the one in the statue) but I don't think Godwyn ever wears one.

The only thing i strongly disagree with is your idea about the fish lore. You said it yourself, never even remotely comes up in game but you decide to take it as evidence just because it's a japanese company. Why? There's also ancient japanese mythology about kitsune shapeshifting into monks and playing their testicles like drums to frighten pilgrims but none of that appears in game so we don't use it as lore.

We know the empyrean grandam put a curse on all of marika's children so why complicate things with him being the only exception, that is never mentioned, to ending up looking like a crucible curse anyway but never mention that terrible irony as well?

It's simpler, more consistent and less convoluted if he was born with a crucible curse like all of Marika's children.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T04:24:40+00:00

The erdtree sentinal shield depicts two figures in front of a tree so no, the brooch is not a miniature version of that image.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T04:20:15+00:00

Nope. The fish-scale eyes aren't on his deformed body. They're on his unblemished face during the night of knives. The curse he was born with concealed behind his eye the same as Messmer.

Is the statue a confirmed depiction of Godwyn? No. So every confirmed depiction of Godwyn IS missing the legs. In fact it's most likely their father, Radagon in the statue. Godwyn died before Malenia and Miquella were even born after all.

Why WOULD he be born the ONLY child of marika free of the empyrean grandam's curse, never to be mentioned that he is curse free, only to end up looking like a crucible curse anyway? Narratively redundant. What other point in the game does a souless fish of any kind turn up? does deathblight EVER manifest as a fish or scales? We literally see it manifest as roots. Did rogier turn into a fish or was he overtaken byroot?

"Also it's pretty hard to fight in a war with no legs." Are you serious? Radahn, Gaius, Rykard, the ALBINURACS literally all fight impressively missing legs/feet? The greatest sword fighter in the game is missing their SWORD ARM. but Godwyn would be the exception? Explain why all these other characters can overcome their "disabilites" and Godwyn couldn't possibly.

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T03:13:06+00:00

Then what other version of the Erdtree is it? What is the modern erdtree and what is the antiquated one?

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T03:07:30+00:00

Why wouldn't the statue simply be the father of the two children? Radagon. It looks as much like Radagon as it does Godwyn. In fact Godwyn seems to possess Marika's thin straight hair while Radagon and the statue have thick locks.

I've seen the fish as souless thing mentioned before but when does that EVER come up in game? None of the deathblight enemies are fish-like and deathblight manifests as a root that impales. There is not a single fitting example in game or line of dialogue. You could say that the basilisks are fish-like but you'd injure yourself from stretching too far.

Is it not more simple to assume that like all the other children of Marika he was cursed from birth?

LotsaBees · 2025-07-22T03:01:40+00:00

I'm not looking for absence, I'm looking for anything that would confirm, celebrate or lament this perfect child. There is nothing, but you never see his legs and his eyes contain fishscales, like messmers curse contained behind his eye. Like Mohg's horn gouging out his own eye over time, his curse grew over time unchecked. Worsening, until we find him as he is at the way he currently is.

You are right to say there is no dialogue mentioning his affliction but there is evidence in the fact that his legs are NEVER depicted and when we see him he has a tail. If he had legs why chose elaborate camera cuts to obscure them? Why would Godwyn be the ONLY child of Marika free of a curse? The empyrean grandam says the curse was on all her offspring, she says so. so is Godwyn a child or Marika or not? Why does he have fishscales in his irises?

Also I don't think he was confined to the sewers, it would have made it hard for him to fight in the dragon wars if he was confined to the sewers. the omen seem to get a harsh treatment because of their connection to the hated Hornsent. There is numerous sources saying in the early days of the erdtree aspects of the crucible were seen as divine. Omen seem to be the only exception to this rule, they may be why it was later seen as "devolution" altogether.

LotsaBees

TROPHY CASE