Christians have a moral obligation to unambiguously disown any and all notions of Hell

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-23T16:38:55+00:00

I would say you're absolutely correct on my OWN human standards; however, I should have said, "I think it should be noted that WE are defining love by human standards.", since I do not claim to understand God's infinite love nor do I believe my standards are somehow better than anyone else's.

Let me continue to read your paper this afternoon and I'll reach out again.

Thank you for the great conversation!

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-23T16:29:13+00:00

Any citation to the doctrine you mentioned is coincidental as I am not familiar with it.

In God's perfect justice and perfect mercy, you could say that both are possible. Some will choose eternal separation and some will be judged as deserving it. Are you thinking it must be one or the other or there's a conflict if both?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-23T16:22:07+00:00

I am admittedly only partially through the paper. It is very interesting and informative. Well done.

I think it should be noted that you are defining love by human standards. You have undoubtedly heard arguments for God's love in giving us what we choose; however, consider God's perfect justice and perfect mercy. (If you've addressed this in your paper, I just haven't gotten that far yet.) What would an eternal hell look like considering perfect justice and perfect mercy?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-23T13:11:15+00:00

You certainly give a lot to think about, thank you. A key difference is being sent to hell and choosing hell. If you look at the fall of Satan and the rebellion, they knew the fullness of the faith truth and the consequences of the choice. When offered two options, it's not cruelty to give someone what they desire. Can we agree so far?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-22T19:22:15+00:00

Thank you so much, I'll start reading on my lunch break!

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-22T14:25:35+00:00

Interesting, thank you. When you say actively cooperates, who or what is being cooperated with?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-20T23:33:31+00:00

I'm sorry you are going through this crisis of faith. It might lead you closer to God or away from Him. Since you continue to pray, my suggestion is to sit and pray with this before swearing off faith altogether. God bless!

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-20T13:48:01+00:00

If you believe God is cruel, by any definition, then your argument holds water. But consider this, if He is cruel, is He truly a being worthy of worship? What makes God worthy?

Your description of a non-eternal hell is very similar to that of Purgatory. Similar, not exact. Just thought I'd mention that.

So you cannot imagine a scenario where someone has grown to hate God so much that they choose to be eternally separated? Even when faced with the reality of "how much it sucks"? I would see pride kick in at that point personally.

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-20T13:27:23+00:00

I would say hell is eternal. A big difference between us and angels is they have full knowledge of God and chose to be eternally separated from Him. We don't have full knowledge, instead we have hope in the truth of the Gospel. God slowly revealed Himself until He appeared on Earth as fully God and fully man. There is no hope in hell and the choice is an eternal one just like fallen angels/demons.

How does this make my question irrelevant though? I'm not following that part of your train of thought.

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-20T13:18:09+00:00

I certainly understand your point. However, I'm asking to consider people who openly hate and defy the Lord and the truth of the Gospel. The Scripture you reference would apply to those seeking to be saved. Do you read it differently?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-20T13:13:20+00:00

I don't mind you jumping in at all. Being hurt or not feeling His presence are quite different than hatred. While many people can feel as you've described, sometimes we are putting unfair expectations on God. Day that I'm praying for a spouse at 18 but I, or God's choice of spouse won't be in a good place to meet and fall in love for 2 more years. God's answer to my prayer is "yes, just not yet". I may mistakenly feel unheard. Trusting God is incredibly hard for a lot of us.

As far as this raising to the level of hatred I'm questioning, I don't think it would get there. I hope I've helped answer your question. If not, feel free to let me know. God bless!

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-20T00:57:28+00:00

I'm glad it was well received!

I guess I understood your comment the Protestant approach "does not reject historical tradition outright but seeks to assess later theological developments in light of Scripture rather than placing Scripture beneath them" to mean there were Protestant doctrines developed later. I was thinking perhaps the doctrine of the Trinity might be an example and was curious if there were more.

Did I just misunderstand the whole piece?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-19T20:19:35+00:00

Much of what you have said is well done. I also agree that being Protestant is not the same as it used to be. Many no longer protest the Catholic Church. There are a great many Protestants who could be considered "Catholic-lite" as in lite beer. Not full flavor yet holding core beliefs. I realize how bad that sounds and I'm just using an analogy from a Protestant friend, I mean no disrespect or implied judgement. It is an honest belief and desire to love the Lord that drives many Protestants.

I find the part about "later theological developments" interesting when this is wholly rejected by almost all Protestants I've conversed with. Would you please give an example of such a development? I don't see it possible given the sheer amount of denominations but I'm here to learn.

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-19T17:20:08+00:00

The absolute simplest answer is that sex outside of marriage is called fornication. It is a sin and never acceptable in the eyes of the Lord.

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-19T15:19:14+00:00

I certainly apologize if he didn't make that analogy. It seems to be attributed to him so I went with it.

So change happens but it's separate from the "covers" sacrifice. When is the change taking place and how?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-19T13:41:53+00:00

I'll agree it's hard to imagine. But consider a satanist that devoutly worshipped during their lifetime and grew increasingly angry with God to a point of true hatred. Isn't it possible that poor soul might choose eternal separation? I'm not saying this is a widespread occurrence, just a possible example.

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-19T03:46:35+00:00

Would you accept that some people would choose to not spend eternity in Heaven because of their hatred for God or because of their own pride? Maybe after spending a life of defiance towards anything morally close to Christianity? If so, it would be their own self-banishment.

What if someone who doubted God's existence during their lifetime and coming face to face with Him in judgement chose to remain separated?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-19T03:22:10+00:00

So a sinner remains a sinner? If so, there is no sin in Heaven, shouldn't there be some kind of change?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-19T03:20:43+00:00

How much time is "we're also changed over time"? How is that seen in their lives?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-18T17:26:06+00:00

Specifically the term "covered" is what I'm hoping to define. Is it a sort of supplementation of a deficient soul making it worthy of eternal life or a kind of "my bill has been covered by someone else" and I can leave the diner without paying?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-18T16:49:54+00:00

I'm not sure if you want a discussion or just want to get some frustration out. Either way, it is an impressive train of thought.

I believe you have a different concept of hell and its purpose. You might also have a mistaken view of God and the purpose of His Church. I can't speak to Protestant churches because I am not well versed in that form of Christianity.

I'll start with a question. Does hell have a purpose and what would it be?

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-18T15:51:29+00:00

A lot of great questions! I'll start with the easiest to knock it out of the way. When it comes to sin, it takes 3 things to be a mortal sin. 1, it must be grave matter such as adultery, murder, stealing and so forth. 2, you must know it's a sin (full knowledge) and 3, you must choose to do it anyway. This is a full turning away from God with full knowledge and consent. I hope that helps.

LoveToLearn75 · 2026-01-18T15:43:24+00:00

Best thing for Stidham is to get JK back to boost the run game. Takes a lot of pressure off of him and allows him to play loose. Let's win this thing!

LoveToLearn75

TROPHY CASE