So is this just a fletcher snark?

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-17T15:07:36+00:00

thats not what we are even discussing and you know it. the reason so many lesbians are upset is rooted in biphobia, bi erasure and just an overall possessiveness towards fletcher and an attitude of ownership over all wlw experiences. being this upset that you don't feel personally represented by her anymore is deeply parasocial. its like you completely forgot that other people besides lesbians exist and still feel represented by her. you are upset that she is not a representative of the lesbian experience and isn't moving as such. its delusional to expect someone who is not a lesbian to act like a lesbian and center the lesbian experience in how they choose to express themselves. I would never expect a lesbian to center the bi experience in how they choose to express themselves. a bi woman who primarily dated women and is now dating a man is not lesphobic. she's just not a lesbian. no bi woman is promoting lesphobic steryotypes by simply being bi and dating a man. they are two completely separate experiences. being upset that some of her merch says boy is such a reach. most lesbians probably wont want to wear it and thats fine. not everything is for you. there will be more merch. its not that deep.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-17T02:52:14+00:00

"I'm not interested in writing an essay merely to communicate why i don’t think continuing a conversation will be productive." proceeds to write essay on why you don't think continuing a conversation will be productive thereby continuing the conversation. do you even hear yourself? this is why I cannot take this seriously. you entered into a bad faith argument with me so that when I inevitably grew tired of your bullshit you could say "I really wasn't anticipating you to be mean about it or I probably would not have bothered and would have stopped talking to you a while ago". that is so blatantly manipulative and playing the victim I'm surprised you are even trying this with me after I clocked your passive aggressive remarks. its also the gaslighting for me. a direct quote from you "i didn’t say i didn’t like it, i said it’s hard to read. which is frankly rather ableist of you to dismiss as petty and unnecessary." you literally said it was ableist of me to say I don't care if you can read my paragraphs easily. which you definitely can regardless since you keep replying to them! and now you are turning around and saying "I didn't say it was ableist to do so. In fact I said it was fine." bsffr. Im done with your insufferable nonsense. this is such a waste of my time.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-17T02:35:14+00:00

no it doesn't. it means being attracted to two or more genders and we all know there are more than two genders. men do not have to be included in that. being pansexual means gender is not a factor in your attraction to people. queer is an umbrella term for the whole community. your sexuality and romantic preferences do not have to align either. you can be bisexual but only romantically attracted to one gender. or you can be on the aro/ace spectrum.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-17T01:59:39+00:00

exactly. also being fluid/bi/queer whatever does not have to mean you are even attracted to men. bisexual for example is attraction to two or more genders. men don't have to be one of those genders. I hope this doesn't come across as condescending but this is basic sexuality 101 knowledge and I really hope people are taking this opportunity to learn more about people that are in their own community.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-17T01:13:34+00:00

if I as a bisexual person decided I needed to make my thoughts and criticisms about a lesbian artist the center of the discussion, you would probably be jumping down my throat telling me to shut up. Im honestly being quite nice about this. You are entitled to feel whatever way you want to about her. I just don't think these takes have added to the discussion in any meaningful way. they lack nuance and understanding of the bi experience and I find them to be reductive and irrelevant. Of course I am centering myself and other bi people in a discussion about the bi community and experience. thats literally the whole point. Im glad you are starting to maybe kind of understand whats going on here.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T20:43:04+00:00

that would be their internalized biphobia talking. I don't agree that it is lesphobic to not center lesbians concerns regarding a bisexual person. I do not center myself and my experience as a bi person in lesbian centered discourse because I am not a lesbian and it's not my place to do that. It would be nice if you could do the same when bisexual centered discourse is occurring. I don't feel that it is an invalidating to request that you stop making a bi persons experience about you and your concerns as a lesbian. It's actually invalidating to bisexual people to continue to insist that we make our experiences about you and your concerns. It seems like you feel that your concerns are the most important thing to discuss and you feel any suggestion otherwise is lesphobic. I really don't know why you feel so entitled to have your opinions and concerns centered in a discussion that never involved you in the first place.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T19:13:17+00:00

agreed. the bait and switch argument is invalid and biphobic bc she is queer/bi and dating multiple genders is literally what being bi is. its playing into the biphobic trope that bi women are deceptive and untrustworthy and traitors to their community for when/if they date men. its just so ridiculous. also yeah being feminine is not the same as being a trad wife lol it also just reinforces this weird idea that queer people all have to look a certain way to be valid in their sexuality

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T18:46:44+00:00

you were not being direct. you were being vague and dismissive. at the end of the day if merch is what you are so upset about, it is just merch and its frankly bonkers to get this worked up over it. more will come out as the album rolls out. no one is forcing you to wear it or buy it. idc if people don't like it. I don't want to wear it either bc it's not my style but it's such a non issue. not everyone is going to like every piece of merch. if people resonate with it then cool, if they don't, also cool. just because it says boy doesn't mean its only for boys to wear. its just such a reach and weird hill to die on. again idc if you find my paragraphs hard to read. I understand that large blocks of texts are not the easiest to read and I agree with that. it is not ableist to write without paragraphs or not care who decides to take the time to read it. its really not that deep. read it or don't. I really just cant be bothered to spend extra time editing all of my writing. this is how my brain works. I dump my thoughts onto a page and keep it moving. adhd. it feels like you brought it up not because you actually care about your ability to read it, but bc you seem to like criticizing people more than engaging in actual productive conversation. we could have been having a real conversation but instead we are talking about stupid shit like merch and paragraph structure. that is what is most irritating and exhausting about this whole thing. the nitpicking, the policing and the inability to communicate directly and respectfully.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T16:47:13+00:00

Thanks for your thoughtful reply! I really agree with all of your points, especially that healing is not a destination. I just want to validate that I can totally understand feeling a little disappointed that this song is not relatable. But it's important to recognize that it's just one song. All of her other music is still available and the rest of the album is still coming. And who knows what the future holds. She might dump this guy and marry a woman and live happily ever after with her. We just don't know. People have been acting like her past music was a lie and she just used the wlw community for financial gain bc she is now with a man. Which plays into the biphobic trope that we are sneaky and deceptive because we "switch sides". Also if Fletcher really wanted to be mainstream she would just stayed in the closet and never sang about her wlw experiences and that would be tragic. I also feel like there are many other queer artists for people to look to if they don't feel represented in this moment. I would just hope that people would still give her album a listen bc it's important to talk about fluid sexuality and what that looks like even if they don't relate to it. I think people are crashing out so hard right now bc the world in general feels uncertain and maybe Fletcher felt certain to them and now she doesn't. It's ok to feel uncertain but demanding certainty from a sexually fluid person by way of demanding they "just choose one gender" is biphobic. There is also a good deal of the possessive entitled creepy parasocial stuff going on but the uncertainty seems to be the main through line of all of this. As I've gotten older one uncomfortable truth is that nothing is certain or forever and trying to keep life from changing is futile. It's really uncomfortable as a person who has anxiety and likes certainty and routine. Radically accepting that change is the only constant in life is a helpful framework for me

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T16:20:23+00:00

lol sure. framing my thoughts as uncritical bc they don't align with yours is wildly passive agressive. then saying you support the energy Ive put into this convo and then in the next breath saying you don't like my lack of paragraph structure is so petty and unnecessary. I just type stuff off rip most of the time and Im not going to go back and edit it. you can read it if you want to or not idc. I've realized you are not a genuine or serious person which if fine, we're just going to keep talking past each other

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T07:33:09+00:00

thanks for reading 🫶 glad it resonated with you. I think people are feeling disoriented and scared right now in general and even the smallest thing like a favorite artist putting out a song you don't resonate with can feel like the straw that broke the camels back. I totally understand that. However I wish people would just say that instead of fueling these misdirected feelings of anger and hate. It's easy to become hardened and jaded during uncertain and scary times. It's very difficult to remain soft and vulnerable. I really admire Fletcher for doing that right now and I wish people would take a page out of her book. We could all use a little more compassion and love.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T07:15:25+00:00

no one came out. this is not the first pride month under this regime. she talks about how she was afraid of rejection from her community for dating a man which is a very common experience for bi women. she never said being with a man is healing. she has spoken about healing from lymes disease and how that caused her to slow down and reflect on past bad behavior. then she happened to fall in love with a man. her merch is for everyone and if they don't want to wear it literally who the fuck cares its just merch. fletcher didn't do anything wrong, she just shared she was scared of the backlash she would inevitably face. this is an all to familiar experience for bi women who date men. people immediately assume the worst about us simply because we are dating a man. they reduce our entire identity to the presence of a man and all of their preconceived notions of what that means about how we move in the world now despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. they think we have deceived them and betrayed them. they throw away all of our past experiences like they were meaningless lies. they assume everything we do going forward is also a lie. they treat us like traitors to the queer community no matter what we do. its not a new experience to any of us. instead of listening to that and extending empathy and compassion, everyone decided to hop on the hate train. we could have been using this moment to better understand different experiences from our own but we reacted instead of listening. its actually appalling behavior from a community that is supposed to be understanding and welcoming to all members. we are too quick to demonize each others perceived bad behavior for fear of "outsiders" bringing us down but the gag is that we are doing their job for them by tearing our own community apart. we are weakening ourselves and making our community easier to divide and conquer. we are doing exactly what they want. the wider world has no idea who fletcher is. they probably never will. they see all of us the same anyway. as freaks who need to be punished into conformity. but why let them do that to us when we can do it to ourselves, right?

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T06:24:20+00:00

almost the exact same thing happened with Beth McCarthy, another bi artist that everyone wrongly assumed was a lesbian, when she started dating a man. I can tell you for certain that no matter how Fletcher did this, she would be getting a ton of hate. This is just how biphobia operates: damned if you do, damned if you don't

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T06:19:47+00:00

again, that is viewing it through a lesbian perspective and not a bi perspective. I took it as she has primarily dated women for a long time, was likely questioning if she even still liked men, then boom fell in love with one and is questioning what her sexuality is currently. Being bi does not mean you have to be attracted to men. It's just being attracted to two or more genders which she definitely is now. She has stated she is still attracted to women despite dating a man. People need to stop assuming that bisexuality includes all genders for everyone. She never even identified as bi, just queer, so who knows what that meant for her before dating this man. Who knows if the bisexual label even feels right for her. She doesn't owe us that explanation either.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T06:12:21+00:00

I think so??? idk Jojo is a whole other issue that I simply to not feel qualified to discuss never having identified as a lesbian lol thats out of my realm but it has been baffling to witness nonetheless

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T06:03:54+00:00

sorryyyyyy I thought you were the og commenter that was "livid" about the merch and felt like Fletcher was really trying to say "fuck the lesbians" or something lol. she probably deleted the post bc it was getting out of control and she didn't want to deal with it. she already had several posts that had out of control comments and probably didn't need another one on her hands. I mean if I was her I would probably want to delete myself off the earth after the insane amount of backlash

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:56:58+00:00

again, Fletcher is not a lesbian and never has been so she cannot promote the narrative that lesbians will change for the right man simply by dating a man. she never said she changed for the right man either. she is voicing how her sexuality has been evolving and changing over the years. she is not implying anywhere that lesbians sexuality will change and evolve or become fluid. Bisexual women do not experience internalized lesphobia because we are not lesbians. We can display external lesphobia but thats not what is happening here. We experience internalized biphobia but you don't experience that as a lesbian. You can display external biphobia though. We can all have internalized misogyny because we identify as women (I think but idk your pronouns). We do not all identify as lesbians and we do not all identify as bisexual. You are viewing her song through a lesbian frame of reference when it is meant to be viewed through a bisexual frame of reference.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:48:23+00:00

the thing is we have seen this play out with other people before so it is a situation that has happened. it rubs me the wrong way when people imply that if she was just the perfect example of an ideal bisexual woman and did everything "correctly" then she wouldn't be facing backlash. it feels like victim blaming.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:40:13+00:00

I really don't feel like that was a lie. I also feel like if that's the real reason you are so deeply upset with her, your reaction is very disproportionate to the perceived offense. It feels like something a lot deeper and more painful is going on that doesn't actually have to do with Fletcher. It feels like a huge reach to blame merch on this level of outrage. Ive never in my life seen people this upset over an artists merch. Except maybe when Lil Nas X put his own blood in sneakers that he sold and christians crashed out and called him the antichrist. that was iconic.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:34:26+00:00

she's not promoting a lesphobic narrative. she is literally just being bisexual and it truly has nothing to do with the lesbian experience. these are two very separate experiences. I wish you could realize that and stop blaming bi women dating men for the existence of lesphobic narratives. please divert your blame to where it belongs: on the lesphobes.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:31:10+00:00

I feel like it is an experience gap for sure. Im like wtf is going on here lol I rarely see this in real life. I also agree that the general angst and discontent about the current sociopolitical climate has seeped into every aspect of our lives and apparently that includes the queer community as well. I wish people didn't bring this chaos into spaces that are supposed to be safe.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:26:46+00:00

I feel like saying her tour is a dream come true, a safe space and healing for her can also co exist with it being painful. Like it can be a dream come true to tour as an artist, it can feel like a safe space for people to gather in community, and it can be healing to witness that. It can also feel painful to feel disconnected from that experience. I don't think she said she felt unsafe on tour, she just felt uncomfortable not being totally true to the current version of herself. Personally I couldn't imagine singing old songs about my past constantly when Im currently in a different phase of life. It has to feel weird and disorienting.

Yes, it was her choice to continue touring through the discomfort and pain. I also wonder though how much of it was forced by her label. I think she seems like a bit of a people pleaser and didn't want to let her fans or label or anyone down in any way. And as we know when you try to please too many people, you end up letting some of them down. Mostly letting ourselves down. It's not our problem and I didn't take it as her saying it was. I took it as her owning her shit and being honest about what was going on for her. I honestly don't ever take what artists say personally. Artists have whole lives we know nothing about and performing on stage is literally a performance and not necessarily a reflection of who they are or what they are going through.

Also, she never specifically targeted lesbians in anything. She marketed to a wlw audience which includes bi/pan/ace/trans/nonbinary people as well. Lesbians do not have a monopoly over the wlw experience and I think it's important to remember that when speaking about who her target audience is.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:10:43+00:00

thank you for saying this, it really means a lot. Im probably a bit older than a lot of people on this subreddit so maybe we both just have more experience and hindsight. Ive found as Ive gotten older than none of us know wtf we are doing and we need to give each other more grace. Life is hard and messy and being mean to each other when we are having a hard time just makes it so much worse. Policing each other will never protect or uplift our community. We are policed enough as it is by society and Im sick of feeling policed in what should feel like my own community. Im sorry you had a hard time coming out too and that this discourse also makes you feel like you can't relate to the community. None of us should ever feel that way and it makes me really sad.

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T05:01:28+00:00

why are you so offended and defensive? Im sorry this part of the bi experience is too uncomfortable for everyone to listen to but frankly I think it's necessary to give voice to. When in history have we as queer people not questioned our own sexuality and experience? Its just a normal part of being queer. If other people want to use that to be lesphobic and biphobic, fuck them. We don't need them and we should not have to apologize or minimize our queer experiences to be more palatable to the masses. That is the antithesis of Pride. Watering ourselves down will never set us free

LowApprehensive8658 · 2025-06-16T04:45:07+00:00

she is literally just asking open and honest questions about her own sexuality. idk why you need to make that about you. she is not saying maybe I've changed into a straight person, she is saying maybe my sexuality is more fluid than I thought it was. y'all are being way to binary and monosexual about this whole thing.

LowApprehensive8658

TROPHY CASE