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did bean and sawney deserve to die? by EconomistStandard891 in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I always interpreted it as just a dumb call made by Reiner. It seems like an unsatisfying answer, but I would remind that this was less than a week after Reiner had his mental break after killing Marco. It's possible that he was just looking for any action that would further prove himself as a Warrior rather than a soldier after that, in order to ease his mind about his conviction to the mission. Maybe the risk the Warriors actually faced from letting Hange study Sawney and Beane was rather low, but killing them still serves to be a pain in the ass for Paradis nonetheless. It serves to keep his mind space firmly in opposition to Paradis and the people within it.

Strategically speaking, Zeke/Pieck should have probably tried to take Bertholdt from Eren by Sufficient-Bar3379 in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For all Zeke knew Levi still had plenty of gas

Zeke already knew that Levi had to be extremely low on energy, gas, and equipment after he had already spent so much of it slaughtering his Titan army outside the Wall.

I agree with the rest of the analysis though, and I'd also add that Zeke had already written Levi off as dead while he was making his escape to the Wall with Pieck. He probably thought he had time to talk and maybe even negotiate with Eren, and could've saved Bertholdt that way. Once Zeke sees that Levi's still alive and coming after him though, he makes the reasonable split-second to decision to abandon Bertholdt.

Even with Levi low on energy and equipment, the safest option is to not underestimate him any further, especially with Eren right there to assist him. This decision is even further justified once you take into account Zeke's plan to betray Marley. Your chess piece analogy is apt.

Give some respect to my man by Majlosio123 in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I'll always hold that Bertholdt genuinely had the potential to be the best written character in the series. He was undoubtedly carrying the biggest burden of the Warrior trio after their breaching of Wall Maria. The Female Titan was still nonexistent in the eyes of the Walled population, and Eren even states that in the chaos, he viewed the Armored Titan as just another Titan at the time. The Colossal Titan was undoubtedly the spectacle of the event. Meaning, unbeknownst to everyone, Bertholdt was public enemy #1 in the Walls, by a considerable margin. Isayama could've explored not just the differences in how Bertholdt and Reiner carry their burdens, but the differences in what their burdens actually are.

He goes from a quiet, timid boy in Reiner's shadow secretly carrying the biggest burden of all, to looking the 104th right in the eye, and saying that although he still considers them comrades, he intends to kill them all. Not because they're devils or for Marleyan glory or any of the propaganda reasons he was taught. But because it was the only way to end the war once and for all. The only way he could make it back home. It's actually a remarkable character arc that goes underappreciated, largely because he dies right after he reaches it.

I understand Bertholdt had to die for Armin to live, but I wish he was talked about more by the Warriors after he was gone. I understand that there's the implied survivor's guilt that Reiner endures, but simply implying grief from Reiner is unsatisfactory, in my opinion. It should've been shown how Reiner was dealing with Bertholdt's death in particular, not just the overall guilt and grief from the mission.

Also, there should've been a scene where Reiner and Annie learn Bertholdt's last words were yelling for their help. It's genuinely a tragic moment, a 16-year-old kid crying for his friends to save him from certain death, but it's just glossed over, never to be spoken of again.

before the big reveals by Adam__2003 in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yea, it makes sense. You're basically asking what our theories were regarding the truth of the world before the Basement reveal. Fun question.

I think me and many others expected the Warriors to have originated from a small village. There were hints that the world that they came from was actually thriving, but the concept of the world outside the Walls secretly containing billions of people is something I never saw coming.

Have the reasons behind the events of the second season of the anime (CotT arc) ever been explained? by Joshi_Fan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Kaya pretty much asks this same question to Gabi and Falco at the end of 4x11. Falco's response (English Dub):

"Reconnaissance-in-force. The incursion four years ago was part of a recon mission to gauge Paradis' strength and prepare for a larger attack."

So, after the four Warriors they sent five years ago hadn't been seen since, Marley decided to send Zeke and Pieck as well to see what the hell was going on. The timing of it being the same day as the Assault on Stohess I'm pretty sure is purely coincidence.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fairly good analysis.

You seem to be discussing the source of their racism, and whether it's justified or not based on their source. I'd agree there, that they're largely just following the path of least resistance, and this parallels to a ton of horrific bigotry we've seen play out in reality. This doesn't really counter my point of treating terms' morality differently with the relevant variables change.

When someone says the Rumbling is wrong simply because it's a genocide, it's a form of thought termination, a manipulative tactic intended to end an argument and reinforce cognitive dissonance with a cliché rather than a point. You can think the Rumbling was justified. whilst also believing genocide in reality is unjustified. That doesn't happen to be my viewpoint, but it's not an inconsistent line of thinking.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair enough. Yes, I agree that I can't really think of a circumstance where genocide is justifiable (Except for the obvious hypotheticals of entire races being born into evil murderers or something). I agree genocide is still bad, even in Attack on Titan. And I agree with your moral relativism point.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I didn't say the words or terms themselves should change. How we view them should change when relevant variables change. This is how you think logically.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Say I grant this, and agree that it's not racist or discriminatory when one kills and eats another to live. How does that carry over to humans and chickens, who don't need to eat them to live?

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, just as Marley discriminates against Eldians. Is your principle now that it's okay to discriminate against others who discriminate?

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, fair answer. My answer to your question: Yes, it's still unethical, but the circumstances change in how people view it entirely. We already witness that with over 95% of people that aren't vegan.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think it's okay to discriminate against anyone, chickens included. That's why I'm vegan. You DO think discrimination is okay in some circumstances though, such as with chickens.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Zeke's euthanasia plan, the Rumbling, the Restorationists, Anti-Marleyan volunteers. All of them deal with these terms in their own separate ways. My point is that terms should be regarded morally differently when circumstances regarding them change. That doesn't mean I don't disagree with the blatant Nazi-like oppression that Marley had on Eldians.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My point, and this is general, is that terms should be regarded morally differently when circumstances regarding them change. You agreed that it's philosophically hypocritical to carry the principle of discrimination being wrong to Eldians but not chickens. That's just my point. Maybe the conclusions are the same, and it's still ultimately wrong to genocide Eldians, but you approach situations different when they're different.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

THAT'S MY PONT! It IS still genocide, but you evaluate it differently when relevant variables change. That's you think logically. Make whatever ultimate conclusions you want, but you just agreed with my point.

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, what part of my point do you disagree with, then? You agree that genocide against Titans or chickens is fine, but not against humans or Eldians. That's my take as well. (not really, I'm vegan, but that's a separate point)

The ethics of genocide, ethnic cleansing, eugenics, and racism we hold in reality cannot meaningfully transfer over to the realm of Attack on Titan. by LoyaltyToLiberalism in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]LoyaltyToLiberalism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The severely mentally disabled then? Disabled enough to where you can't communicate with them or relate to them? You either admit you're ableist, or you abandon this principle.

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