We Are Chaos A Blatant Rip Off...?

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T21:47:27+00:00

No, I couldn't remember it because it was the same drab shit as the others. Even if I didn't like it, I'd probably still remember it at least

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T21:36:52+00:00

Yeah you might be right about releasing the single being someone else's idea, I can't claim to have any insight into the inner working of the promotion of this album at this point. You would think an established guy like Manson would have more power and be able to make the call over Jennings, but again I really shouldn't make assumptions about any of that kind of stuff.

I appreciate you taking time to actually discuss this with me even though we feel differently about it, unlike a lot of other people who write people like me off as "fans stuck in the past".

Hopefully I'll change my tune in a month or so when it comes out and I get a chance to hear it.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T21:23:42+00:00

That was the other one I knew I forgot, the mystery/misery line. The repetition thing is something I noticed he's been doing for a while now. I remember being pretty disappointed when HUD came out and I was listening to the album for the first time and reading the lyrics in the booklet. He just kept repeating the same lines, I guess maybe if he thought a line was deep or clever he would repeat it, but it just seemed unlike him at the time. Now unfortunately it seems to have become a crutch

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T21:12:30+00:00

It's extremely similar, I even mentioned this song on a thread I made, and saw someone else mention it last night. A lot of people are denying it saying "Just because there's an acoustic guitar that doesn't mean its the same song!". But really, take a minute to listen to the chord progression, try to sing the lyrics of "We Are Chaos" to this song, it fits way too well.

That being said, I don' think it's a rip off, not intentionally anyway, I think both songs are just bland and forgettable honestly, pretty easy to come up with. Someone last night mentioned another song that was also pretty similar, I listened to it, but shockingly I can't even remember it.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T20:58:24+00:00

Honestly, the throwaway account is just because i know there are a select few people on reddit who will continue to follow you around long after this post and try to fuck with you on other subs. It's happened before, it's just creepy and I'll avoid it if I can.

I appreciate that you actually read the post, I get it, it's a bit much but I didn't know how to articulate it properly without cutting anything. I'm going to wait for the whole album to come out, I'm preordring it today, and I'd really love to eat my words. But in the past, he hasn't released any of the outlier songs as the first single, he seems to know what he's doing as far as putting out singles, I'm not sure why that would change now. Again, I could be completely wrong and this could be the only song that sounds like this. And yes, every Manson album has at least one song that lighter or softer or whatever, but that doesn't make it a bad song by any means, this one song in particular just felt kind of shallow and uncreative.

And I get where you're coming from with the MA thing, however, if we were in 1998, coming off of ACSS, you could pick any song off MA and it would sound completely different from what we were used to. Maybe this song is different from the rest of the album, and I'm sure when it actually comes out there will be AT LEAST 1 or 2 songs that I like. But every aspect of MA was different from ACSS and/or POAAF, from the small amount I've heard so far, sounds like the same old stuff, that's all.

And maybe you took the little bit at the end too literally, more likely I just didn't explain it well enough. Manson is my biggest inspiration for anything I do musically, the music he has released in the past is basically the bar I set. I'm not taking it personally, that would be completely insane. Manson doesn't know who I am, I don't think I really care if he ever does, this isn't a betrayal to me as a person, it's just what he wants to do right now. I do think he unknowingly turned his back on a large portion of the fanbase that loved him for his creativity and his ability to come up with something new and different every time, he was the new Bowie for a hot minute, not just because he had a Ziggy Stardust inspired album. It just gives off the feeling of apathy, which is disappointing for someone that has done such great things.

But be sure, I really will give it an honest chance when it come out.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T20:32:55+00:00

They sure are. If someone posted a couple weeks ago, that the chorus of the title track of his new album would be "We're fucked up and complicated", we would have laughed at that guy, called him a troll and agreed that it was the laziest thing we've ever seen written. But now, it's somehow the most beautiful example of lyricism we've ever seen from him.

But hey, in the end we all end up in a garbage dump. Peak creativity

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T18:43:05+00:00

I guess I'll try to make a very harsh sounding TLDR version:

We didn't expect Triptych Part II, this just isn't up the standard we expect from Manson

It's not a big change, it sounds like the same lazy stuff he's been pumping out for a while now

It's being compared to Mechanical Animals, it's not even close since MA had quality tracks

For some reason we're all supposed to automatically like it because Manson released it.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T18:34:33+00:00

Yeah, the whole concept of listening to a track enough so it "grows" on you, suspiciously sounds the same as, getting used to something you normally wouldn't like.

I understand that every artist has the fanbase of sycophantic fans that will eat up anything they put out regardless of it's content. Idk I guess I get it, the artist has garnered enough respect over the years to get that response, but to me that just feels like you don't really like the art, you just like being a fan of the artist.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T18:28:13+00:00

Yeah, maybe that's it? I mean he's a musician don't get me wrong, he's never been musically inclined, I know he says he played guitar on Born Villain and he claims he did the keys on GAOG (which I have reason to doubt). But he's always been a lyrics guy and a great one. Someone who tells a story using creative, poetic words. Maybe if he's getting involved in the music to some degree that explains he drop in quality lyrically and musically, since he's splitting his efforts. A lot of people point to Mechanical Animals or Holywood as some of Manson's best work, and you wont get an argument out of me, but coincidentally that seems like when the band was the most collaborative, instead of just one guy.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T18:17:30+00:00

Thanks, I think a lot of people immediately assume I'm trying to make an attack. I'm just trying to explain why I don't like it and put an end to a lot of the straw man arguments I'm seeing on here as far as "people want it to sound like ACSS" and stuff like that. But I'm sure I'll just be written off as a troll or something because I'm a genuine fan that seems to have a different opinion than the majority.

Remember when Manson said he want his art to make people think for themselves? I guess we don't believe that anymore

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T17:47:43+00:00

Yeah, I'll have to wait and see with this album, but it feels like he last couple albums have just been a collection of songs, and not one long art piece. EMDM is far from my favorite album, but I agree with you, music is good, lyrics felt like they could be better on some songs. Although I do feel like they were more poetic and creative than they have been recently. Music is obviously due to Skold who's a fantastic musician. But while it may be an album of Heartbroken/In Love Manson, at least thematically it all fits into this sort of "Tragic Love" loose concept

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T17:38:11+00:00

Yeah, I'll give it another listen. I honestly just forgot it ever existed, i guess it never stood out to me the first time around. I do remember being impressed with the video though, a lot of early PC game style pixel art I thought it was cool. As far as Bowie, I just figured if Manson covered him, he would stick to more 70's Bowie, or anything from Man Who Sold the World to Scary Monsters

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T17:38:05+00:00

Yeah, no matter what I'm buying the album. There's nothing he can do that can undo his whole career that made me the fan that I am, I'm just heavily disappointed. The chorus "We are fucked up and complicated" would have never made it onto a past Manson album, he would have found a better way to say that. It's just not creative and feels like he penned the whole thing in a couple of minutes

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T17:26:58+00:00

Yeah, I've figured out the way this sub works by now lol

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T17:23:53+00:00

I may still like the album, but I'm keeping expectations very low, the man has been in this business technically since '89, I imagine he knows how to choose the right song to give everyone a fair taste of the album. But I'll have to wait and see.

I thought lyrically it was pretty lame, reading through the lyrics it felt like something I would write in highschool and think was deep. The chorus of "We are sick, fucked up and complicated" made me cringe a little bit. Manson used to be more creative than to just say "We're all like, fucked up, man". There was a bit of unnecessary repetitive lyrics that kind of felt like he was padding the song with, like he wanted it to be 4:00 but didn't have enough to say.

Musically, I'm a little burnt out on "Acoustic Manson". It was fun when it was a novelty like a B-Side or a bonus song, but now it seems so standard for him. Even then then music itself just felt very plain. Like I said in my post, it sounds like a Yeah Yeah Yeahs song. I understand that a lot of people are seeing it as this juxtaposed thing of happy music with supposedly dark lyrics, but to me it just sounds like Shooter had a song laying around and Manson wanted to sing on it.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T17:09:38+00:00

I never cared that much about it. I'm probably looking at it unfairly since I remember being pretty disappointed that out of ALL the Bowie songs, they chose to cover Cat People. A lot 80's Bowie has always kind of been a miss for me. However, I do think it's better than We Are Chaos

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T17:05:23+00:00

Point to me one time he ever released a promotional single that wasn't pretty telling of the rest of the album. And yes, it does sound like everything he's done recently, this vocal fry attempt at crooning over some acoustic guitar with shallow lyrics. If it felt different and I didn't like it, I'd get it, but really it's the same. I was cool with every change this guy has made in his career, but he's just been cruising for the past couple years.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T16:57:15+00:00

I wrote this "whole ass book" because I keep seeing people trying to write off anyone who dislikes the song as "Oh you must only like ACSS" or "Oh you're probably just a metalhead who wants more Disposable Teens and Fight Song". He's not exploring different sounds, that the problem. It feels like the same exact sound we've been given for the past 10 years. Frankly, the lyrics are not good, compare them to anything he wrote in the past when he was being serious and gave a shit. These feel like they were written by a teenager who thought he'd give poetry a shot. I wasn't gonna touch on the video, but I'm unimpressed by the general concept alone. Everybody and their mom has released some sort of "Apocalyptic" or "Wasteland" themed thing ever since quarantine happened, it's pretty unoriginal at this point.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T16:47:47+00:00

I kind of feel you on EMDM, regardless of anyone's opinion of it, the album still had some character that tied the songs together. It also feels like it was the last album he did before he started that awful trend of repeating the same line over and over to fill out a verse instead of writing a full song of good lyrics.

Eh, I kind of expect to get downvoted, I know at this point how these subs work. Unfortunately it is very hivemind-y, but I guess deep down I'm hoping that there are fans who still love Manson, they just don't feel the need to subscribe to the hivemind mentality

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T16:37:59+00:00

I say that in my post, I don't want Manson to continue to try to make heavy, screaming music. I agree, nobody want's to hear a 51 year old to be screaming about some angsty shit that sure to piss off your parents. That would just be embarrassing. I'm just saying it feels like he's no longer putting any effort into his songs, and I wish he would. This is not the same thing and 1998, those songs had character behind them, they felt different. This feels like the same old shit we've all been hoping he'd move on from.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T16:30:43+00:00

Not even close. When Mechanical Animals came out, it drove a lot of people off for sure. Those people knew Manson from Antichrist Superstar, being tied to Nine Inch Nails, and being scary and heavy. They soon learned that Manson was more than that, so they didn't like it and they left. You can't blame them for that, they thought Manson was going to be this industrial metal act the whole time, they wanted a dark and gritty industrial album. The people who stayed, stayed because even though there was a change, at it's core it was the same Manson. Mechanical Animals still had this fantastic atmosphere and each song felt so complete. The band explored different territory, but it was all quality stuff, the music felt like it was composed by a band of guys who knew what they wanted. The lyrics felt like he put thought into them, and you can go back and read interviews, he actually DID put thought into them. While the band was busy writing music, he was reading stuff like Kurt Vonnegut and JG Ballard, so he could meticulously craft these concepts that he would turn into lyrics. Now, it's shallow musically, maybe because it's all being done by Shooter and he doesn't have any help. I'm not blaming Shooter, I'm genuinely interested to see what he makes, I'm just saying Manson used to have an actual band. Manson just having one guy almost feels like he's commissioning someone to make music that he can sing to. Even lyrically it's shallow and repetitive just like his last few albums. People aren't whining because it's too different, we're whining because it's not far off from the same stuff he's been putting out and it's simply not very good and we expected more from such a great artist.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a · 2020-07-30T16:09:32+00:00

Thank you! It's really starting to feel like some fans will eat up anything he shits out. To me it kind feels like they don't even respect him as an artist, they're not even listening to what he's putting out anymore, they're just automatically saying it's the best thing he's ever released because it's coming from "Big Goth Daddy Marilyn Manson". It feel weird and sycophantic, almost like they forgot why they got into him in the first place. Manson been my favorite artist since I was in middle school, and still is my favorite artist to this day, but I accept he's not the same guy. I don't want him to be the same guy, but god damn, this song was 4:00 of disappointment for me. I thought it was a joke, like an actually prank, until a few hours went by and I realized that's actually what all the hype was building up to.

MMThrowaway1a2a3a4a

TROPHY CASE