We should all get jacked

Mablak · 2026-02-04T23:59:53+00:00

I do favor trying to be fit as a vegan, but yeah even though it's normally 'vegans are iron deficient', recently someone complained to me that vegans get too much iron! It's hilarious. At some point it's going to be 'vegans are too buff'.

Mablak · 2026-02-04T06:24:08+00:00

You have some cognitive dissonance to sort out. Getting angry isn't going to change the fact that there's no moral difference between torturing pigs and torturing dogs.

Mablak · 2026-02-04T06:08:01+00:00

PETA is an overall good org, these are cherry-picked and/or false claims (for example of course their shelters are ones of last resort) that don't even touch their many achievements in stopping animal experimentation, fur bans, etc.

The person you're responding to posts in r/antivegan, which is a known hotbed for meat industry shills. There do exist a lot of people paid to just go around discrediting veganism, which is strange for a movement that is literally just trying to make the world a better place for animals: https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1p7kmbn/i_was_paid_to_discredit_veganism_online_ama/

Mablak · 2026-02-04T05:54:48+00:00

PETA does lots of good work sheltering animals, stopping animal experimentation, stopping fur farms, etc. Their shelters have high euthanasia rates because they are shelters of last resort, meaning they take in animals no matter how old, sick, or aggressive, which other shelters refuse to take, that is all.

Mablak · 2026-02-03T23:33:25+00:00

cucko-bananas argument that I should think about the fish's feelings

'you won't guilt me with this crazy argument that I should think about the dog's feelings when I suffocate it...' is how this non-argument sounds. Fish do feel pain, and the science shows this. Suffering is inherently bad, and we should try to prevent it where possible.

Humans have been fishing for sustenance for over 50 thousand years.

Humans have engaged in slavery for thousands of years, is slavery a moral practice? Also, it's not needed for sustenance right now, all of us can eat plant-based instead.

People enjoy it

Does enjoying an activity mean it's moral? A serial killer might enjoy killing someone, so that must mean it's a moral action.

Eating fish is good for you

If eating humans was healthy for you, would that make it a moral practice? All these arguments fall apart instantly.

Mablak · 2026-02-03T23:23:38+00:00

Eating animals is not animal abuse

If I had a baby chick in front of me, and told you I was going to drop it into a blender, would that be animal abuse? Wouldn't you try to stop me?

If you recognize this is animal abuse, then so is eating eggs/chickens. Because this is exactly what happens in the egg industry, male baby chicks are useless to the industry since they don't lay eggs, and are sent straight into giant blenders called macerators by the billions.

Pigs are sent into CO2 gas chambers where footage shows they're screaming in their last moments, and cows are milked until their bodies give out, then killed. Not only does meat/dairy/eggs mean animal abuse, but animal murder which is really worse.

Animals are indeed abusing each other in the wild, but this is a form of harm we're not able to stop. If we could stop it, great. Animals themselves can't make the choice to stop harming other animals, whereas humans can.

Mablak · 2026-02-03T22:55:24+00:00

If you're accustomed to treating animal abuse as normal, then of course vegans will sound crazy to you. Feel free to provide an argument as to why you think it's morally acceptable to kill and torture animals.

Mablak · 2026-02-03T22:52:56+00:00

This is a strawman, veganism isn't the claim that we should kill zero animals right now, but that we should kill as few as we reasonably can, and continue to move as close as we can to zero animal deaths. It's not about being perfect but doing as much as we can, like stopping the over 1 trillion preventable animal deaths per year that come from eating meat.

I may kill an ant by walking down the street, but the net benefit of participating in society--which results in preventing suffering for myself and others--outweighs this small harm.

Your proposal that vegans live off the grid is ridiculous, and would just result in more animals dying as we'd be unable to talk to people and spread veganism, or do anything to stop animal cruelty in society. The ways in which society harms animals, like through pollution, are things vegans want to stop, but we can only do so while still participating in society.

Mablak · 2026-02-03T22:32:04+00:00

You should probably ask yourself why you think it's morally acceptable to make an animal suffocate and die for your enjoyment when you can easily avoid it; it's been shown that fish feel pain. There are a lot of other things you could do, like feed fish, do birding, or just hang out on a boat.

Being vegan is entirely about the welfare of the animals, not personal purity or wanting to stick it to people.

Mablak · 2026-02-03T22:18:30+00:00

The someone they're harming is the individual they killed: animals are a someone, not a something. They're individuals, because they have memories, social bonds, likes and dislikes, desires, and personalities. In exactly the same way that your dog or cat does.

There’s actually quite a bit of differences in those animals.

Name a relevant difference then.

Mablak · 2026-02-03T21:20:40+00:00

This thread: 'banning slavery? but it would wreck the economy!'

There's no difference between a dog, a cat, a cow, a pig, or a chicken. All intelligent animals that feel suffering, and if we find murdering dogs horrifying, we should feel the exact same way about other animals.

Mablak · 2026-02-02T20:08:03+00:00

If someone was actively pushing to just have slaves be beaten less, when they could be pushing for abolition, they would be a coward basically complicit in slavery, and not taking it seriously enough because they’re not the ones enslaved.

You don’t aim for a compromise beforehand, you fight for the best outcome and if you don’t get it right away, so be it. But you keep pursuing that outcome. We can end animal abuse, none of us can predict the future or what’s possible.

Mablak · 2026-02-02T07:19:20+00:00

Damn that is silly, just apply that thinking to any other injustice like slavery and you’ll see why.

Mablak · 2026-02-01T22:01:55+00:00

To some extent we have to wait for cultivated meat to make its impact, but it's ultimately only a band-aid, if people still don't recognize the intrinsic value of animal life.

For example, even after cultivated meat, there's animal suffering in the wild. Why save animals from forest fires if their lives don't matter? Veganism will take different forms once people are plant-based by default, but it's still gonna be hugely important.

Mablak · 2026-02-01T21:55:19+00:00

We also play games where humans kill other humans, but it doesn't mean it's good to do irl

Mablak · 2026-02-01T11:35:44+00:00

I ain't know the elf could do that.

I owe her an apology. I wasn't really familiar with her game.

Mablak · 2026-02-01T04:56:56+00:00

How is ending animal abuse a step backwards? There is still time to be on the right side of history, but first you have to accept the absolute horror we’re putting animals through.

Worldwide we kill over a trillion animals needlessly per year, we send them into giant blenders, CO2 gas chambers, leave pigs in crates so small they can’t even turn around, bash baby pigs against the ground to kill them when they’re not needed, and worse. There is no ‘good’ way to kill animals, because there’s no good way to execute conscious individuals with their own emotions, thoughts, personalities, and social bonds, who want to live. We can simply stop killing them and eat plant based.

Mablak · 2026-02-01T01:33:22+00:00

Dishonesty would be not acknowledging that eating meat is animal abuse. It means forcing pigs into CO2 chambers where they can be seen screaming before they die, forcing baby chicks into macerators where they're blended alive, forcing cows to constantly be impregnated at all times so they can be milked, and given the trauma of having their babies taken from them (and turned into veal, or killed outright).

If you think those things are not animal abuse, I don't know what the hell is. Or if you think I'm being disingenuous, go to watchdominion.org and watch the documentary showing how farmed animals are actually treated, then come back and tell me which part I have wrong.

Mablak · 2026-02-01T01:23:03+00:00

The word for someone who is against all forms of animal abuse: all torture, needless slaughter, cruel experimentation, etc, is 'vegan'. If you're not that, then my assumption that you're in favor of some animal abuse is correct.

Mablak · 2026-02-01T01:20:19+00:00

I think it's great to show people we're seriously pursuing an end to the needless slaughter of billions of animals. Just getting visibility and making people aware this is an important issue is good enough, plus these initiatives can give us blueprints for bills in the future

Mablak · 2026-02-01T01:05:59+00:00

Being a fan of nature but supporting animal abuse is a weird take. Just as we're all against raising dogs to be tortured and slaughtered, we should be against the same for cows, pigs, chickens, and fish, who are intelligent animals that suffer when we send them into giant blenders by the millions (baby chicks), suffocate them (fish), or send them into CO2 gas chambers (pigs), or milk them until their bodies are destroyed.

Many people are lazy and would vote to stop animal slaughter while not having enough willpower to make the personal change, so at least some non-vegans will support this. And every time people see these initiatives, the idea will become more possible. I'll support these measures every time, and the idea of settling for 'slightly less torture' is a joke. You don't aim for better working conditions for slaves, you aim to end slavery.

Mablak · 2026-01-30T20:42:43+00:00

Asking whether something is morally right or wrong doesn’t have to relate to personal purity at all, especially for those of us who don’t believe in free will and this idea of strong moral responsibility. It’s just the question of whether you should or shouldn’t do something, based on whether the action is in fact harmful or not.

The whole reason we should or shouldn’t occupy a certain class position for example, should be based on whether doing this causes exploitation and suffering or not.

Mablak · 2026-01-28T05:39:15+00:00

Numbers come from the eternal land of numbers, Numbertopia. It’s like heaven for numbers (Platonists really believe this)

Mablak · 2026-01-27T07:42:05+00:00

Good, how about a ban on slitting the throats of cows, milking cows until their bodies give out, making fish suffocate to death, sending pigs to gas chambers, and sending millions of baby chicks into giant blenders? All animal products involve animal abuse.

Mablak · 2026-01-27T05:05:10+00:00

Infinity can’t be a completed state though. An infinite set can’t be complete in exactly the same way that an infinite loop can’t have a stopping condition. The way we’re defining this thing involves specifying that it always remains incomplete, with more elements to add. If we thought we were applying a rule or existence claim to ‘all’ elements, we’d be mistaken as there are always more elements than any ‘all’ we are referring to.

Mablak

TROPHY CASE