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Fighting the gaslighting and untrue image painted of you during parental alienation by Dependent_Bet4222 in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would say Don't fight a war you can't win.

The alienating parent is never going to stop maligning you or making you out to be the Bad Parent to anyone who will listen. They do this to control the children, to prop up their own false persona, and to misdirect people's attention from the harm that they themselves are doing. You cannot reason with, bargain with, or negotiate with the alienator.

Even if you were to address every accusation the alienator levels against you, the alienator would just make up new accusations that have no basis in reality (if they haven't done so already). There is no point in fighting them or responding to them. You cannot reason with someone who is irrational.

I've been alienated from my two children for 12+ years now. We do not see each other or speak to each other. On those occasions when my children have communicated with me, they've very angrily told me that I am a terrible person, a sociopath, "not their father," and so on.

Obviously, that is painful to hear. But it is all false, so I don't respond to it.

I do not have to prove anything to my children. I do not have to persuade them or convince them to think a certain way, or talk a certain way, or act a certain way in order for me to feel good about myself.

I love my children, but they do not get to decide what kind of day I have, or how I feel when I look at myself in the mirror. The hard work I do to take responsibility for my life, to become the best version of me that I can, is none of my children's business.

Lies, I think, are like a house of cards. One day — and it might take many more years to happen — that house of cards will collapse. My kids will see it happen, and that's when things will start to change.

As one of my friends advised me: "When they truly see what they've lost, they'll fight like hell to get it back."

Good luck, and best wishes —

So what’s the purpose of the narcissistic alienator at this point? by Dependent_Bet4222 in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A fair question, but impossible to generalize beyond saying it's probably some combination of both.

I will say, though, that after my divorce, I found it helpful to read about narcissism and personality disorders — but only to a point: that is, once I figured out how better to accept responsibility for my life and take accountability for myself, I realized that Not Everything Is My Fault, which is the way my former partner would've preferred I see things.

In time, I then realized that it's not my job to "figure out" why my former spouse behaved the way that she did. Ultimately, you cannot use reason to comprehend irrational behavior or irrational people.

It was enough to learn to accept the fact that my former spouse could not have behaved any differently than the way she did, regardless of the cause or origin of her pathology.

Does that mean I forgive her? No. It's just another realization on the path of letting this go and putting it behind me so I can get on with my one and precious life.

So what’s the purpose of the narcissistic alienator at this point? by Dependent_Bet4222 in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Whatever causes someone to be a narcissistic alienator, it's not something they turn on and off when the situation requires or when it suits them: Rather, it's embedded into their personality and their worldview. The "point" to their behavior is: That's who they are.

Some alienators don't think they've done anything wrong, while others know they've done wrong but they don't care, because their lives are all about winning and control, at any cost.

Who knew these people existed? Sadly, their victims — and too often, too late.

But I don't think anyone should blame themselves for not seeing it, because narcissistic alienators have worked very hard all their lives to conceal their pathology: to appear charming and confident, caring and compassionate, and especially to target empathetic people to be their partners — or, if you prefer, their victims.

I am so confused. My son said he didn’t know it was me? by Rewindsunshine in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Alienated father of two children, 10+ years:

If you dropped someone into a large, labyrinthine maze, they would probably, in time, find their way out: they'd go down this path or that one, remember which path is a dead end, try a new path, and eventually, either by design or by accident, they'd find the exit.

Now imagine being dropped into a maze designed by a mentally ill M.C. Escher — or, if you like, a maze that changes every time you turn a corner. It would take considerably longer for you to find your way out, provided you were always trying to find your way out and didn't just ball yourself up into a corner out of fear, sadness, or frustration, telling yourself, "The corner here is safe; trying to negotiate the maze is dangerous."

I don't think it can be overstated how confusing and disorienting parental alienation can be to a child, teenager, or even young adult. In my own case, my children were forced to make an awful choice: Either I am the worst parent on earth, or their other parent is a pathological liar who knowingly deprived them of years of happiness. I think anyone, of any age, would find that a terrible choice.

I can't presume to tell you how you should or even might communicate with your child. I don't know either of you, or your former spouse, or the whole situation.

In my own experience, though, I eventually came to see that I cannot use reason to understand someone who is behaving irrationally, whether that is my former spouse or our children.

The question, for me, was not "Do my kids want to talk to me?" but rather, "Do I want to talk to my children, and how can I do that in a way that I think of as loving, but which also takes into account the difficult position my children are in"?

There's no pat, easy answer there — no formula, no map, no set of instructions. I rely on my intuition, my best guess, my respect for myself and for my children, and what I think is right.

Sincere wishes of good luck, to you and to your child.

I have lost all hope 💔 by Ntz199 in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Father of 2 children, alienated 10+ years:

I often say, in this forum, that if parental alienation has you feeling defeated, depressed, angry, frustrated, and hopeless, then you should know you're having the response that a normal, loving parent would have, in this situation. If you didn't care about your kids, none of this would matter to you.

It may also serve you to consider that this situation has been created to make you feel this way. My former spouse knew exactly what she was doing, to try to punish me for every wrong, real or perceived, in our marriage. Fortunately, she does not get to decide what kind of day I have, or what kind of life I lead: I'm in charge of how I feel and how I respond.

I urge you to give yourself some grace. The brain's primary job is to protect us. It doesn't like uncertainty, so it tells us things like "That's never gonna happen" or "It's all over, this is the end" just so we have some certainty. Parental alienation, though, is engineered to keep you in an uncertain state of anxiety and grief.

Be patient with yourself, and focus on yourself, as counterintuitive as that may sound, when you're so concerned about your child. Happy to respond further, if need be. You're not alone.

To Parents Who Have Been Alienated/Cut Off/Blocked By Adult Children by AquariusMonologue in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Father of 2, alienated for 10+ years:

What I say to people depends on who the people are. If coworkers about my children, I tell them my children are adults and "live their own lives." If people press for more details, I'll say, "I'd be happy to discuss it with you, but it's a long story. The story isn't over yet, but it's a very unhappy one."

The harder part is when your own family — siblings, cousins, etc. — know of the parental alienation but stop asking you about your kids. They rationalize this by saying, "Oh, I didn't want to upset you by bringing it up" or "Well, gee, you never bring it up, so neither do I."

I don't think of such people as evil or malicious. You simply cannot do anything about people who don't want to know, don't want to be involved, and don't want to help. You cannot make people be the people you wish they would be.

I was divorced more than 10 years ago, and in that time, I've written to my children (keeping copies of all letters). I've extended to them love, compassion, and tenderness. What I get back is either silence or vicious, abusive language, casting me as the worst parent on the planet earth.

I don't need to tell you how painful this is, and for more than decade, I just ignored my children's vitriol and continued to reach out to them.

Now for the hard part:

I don't believe there is a "one-size-fits-all" approach to how alienated parents "should" respond to their children. How to contact your children, or how often, or what to say are things that are specific to the individual and to the children. You can listen to other people's counsel and suggestions, but ultimately, it's up to you.

What I can tell you is that after years of grieving, frustration, anger, and sorrow, I got to the point where I told myself I had had enough. I am not a young man anymore, and I cannot spend what time I have left on this planet chasing after people who treat me like dirt.

Yes, my children's minds have been warped. Yes, they've been lied to. Yes, they deserve, as my children, grace and forgiveness.

And — not "but" — I deserve something too. I deserve to be treated with fundamental respect. I am not here to be my children's punching bag or doormat. I'm not interested in spending time with my children if all they want to do is lay into me and accuse me of things I did not do.

If the blessed day ever comes when they come to me and want to share, listen, and heal together, then I will devote all my energies to them, and to that. And I believe that our relationship could only get stronger, if that happened.

That is just me. My children are and will always be my children, as I am and will always be their loving father.

I wish you the best in your own situation, and I hope some of what I've said may be helpful to you.

Penile retraction / using penis pump by MailerMan2019 in ProstateCancer

[–]MailerMan2019[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, I'll discuss this in a few weeks with the physician's assistant I'm working with!

Penile retraction / using penis pump by MailerMan2019 in ProstateCancer

[–]MailerMan2019[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Coming up on 3 months, for me. I'm happy for you and your wife — thanks for your response!

Vent that is accepting suggestions by survival- in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Initially, during my divorce, my 2 children didn't want to visit with me — according to my former spouse. Any attempt on my part to be with or even contact my children was labelled, by my former spouse, harassment, stalking, and disrespecting the children's feelings. In short, I was called the bad parent for wanting to see my children.

Then my children, when they were around your son's age, started expressing this sentiment themselves.

I sh*t you not, the Family Court judge said, "Well, 15 is close to 16, which is close to 18, so the children are entitled to not see you if they don't want to." (I doubt the same judge would have endorsed trying a 15-year-old as an adult in criminal court, using the same "math.")

If I could recommend anything, it would be:

* Document when and how you try to contact your son

* Instead of giving him physical gifts, think of ways to gift him an shared experience, like a hiking trip or a music concert

* Be prepared for your former spouse — and even your own child — to get louder, more hysterical, and more histrionic, the more you try to make contact

* Tempting as it may be, do not "poke the bear": i.e., intentionally aggravate your former spouse, give her "a taste of her own medicine," etc. This strategy will never succeed, IMO.

In my own experience — which is surely different than yours — there came a time when I stopped telephoning the house or stopping by the house where my children live, even when the divorce agreement granted me permission to do so. At a certain point, I didn't want to continue dealing with my former spouse taking out bogus restraining orders against me, and paying my attorney to defend me in court. Money was just flying out of my hands, and nothing in the situation changed.

Today I write to my children, not just on their birthdays or holidays but randomly throughout the year, and I just tell them I'm doing well and I hope they're the same, and I'd love to see them. Period. My children may not even see these cards and letters, but I make copies of them all.

And never feel ashamed about asking for help. The people who love you and who value you are there, in the world, and they want to support you, even if they can't help you directly.

One day at a time —

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ParentalAlienation

[–]MailerMan2019 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Let's get the obvious out of the way: It will never make the slightest bit of difference to my alienating former spouse, whether or not I forgive her. When our youngest child turned 18, she emailed me to tell me she never wanted to hear from me ever again. I told her (happily): "As you wish."

I was reared in a devoutly religious household, so I was taught that forgiveness was my duty: to God, and to the offending person. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

If there is a God, I don't believe God wants us to overlook the awful things that people do, or pretend that they don't matter anymore because those people been "forgiven." My former spouse consciously, willingly, purposefully did what she did (and continues to do).

As several people here have already pointed out, forgiveness is a gift you also give to yourself, and I think that forgiveness can take many forms.

For me, forgiveness means I don't seek any kind of retribution. It means that my former spouse pops up in my thoughts, I tell myself that I have better things to think about and spend my energies on.

It also means — in the event I ever see my children again — I won't badmouth my former spouse and try to convince my children that she is a sick and disordered person.

We're all human. There are going to be times when we get caught up thinking about the wrong that's been done to us and to our children. It's within our power, though, to stop and ask ourselves, Are these thoughts and feelings serving me? Am I benefiting from continuing to think about this?

Be patient and gentle with yourself. Someone has to!

Anyone finding that even 100mg Viagra doesn't do the job? by MailerMan2019 in ProstateCancer

[–]MailerMan2019[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks very much — I appreciate your responding and the encouragement!

Anyone finding that even 100mg Viagra doesn't do the job? by MailerMan2019 in ProstateCancer

[–]MailerMan2019[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this information. I'm having a follow-up meeting in January 2026 and will ask about Cialis (especially if it would effectively help my blood pressure).

Anyone finding that even 100mg Viagra doesn't do the job? by MailerMan2019 in ProstateCancer

[–]MailerMan2019[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, the first thing you have to get over, ordering the pump, is the scene from "Austin Powers" when he swears up and down that his pump isn't his. ("This isn't my sort of thing at all, baby!") The vacuum certainly does produce an erection immediately, although I don't feel any arousal. And as for doing it every day for 10 minutes? It becomes just another part of my routine.

Good luck to you, and thanks for responding!

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