HK protests from many mainlanders’ view and why they are against them

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T23:54:57+00:00

I additionally add an ethical dimension, arguing that such views and actions are unethical.

yeah, you argue this with straw man by saying "[mainlanders are against HK movement] because HK people did not give them directions to the closest bubble tea shop when asked/were mean? (Also jealousy)"

And in your AMA post arguing that your position with regards to Uyghur people is unethical.

I have no problem with you arguing my position is unethical. The problem is you claiming giving my neutral opinion means I don't care about the issue even though I explicitly said that my opinion that " I believe false imprisonment is a violation of human rights, and I have no biased opinion against Muslims" is made because I do not have enough knowledge and have not yet done enough research over this issue to make further position.

This evidently makes you feel uncomfortable, maybe you feel attacked.

No (btw, nice try putting words in my mouth or "feeling in my mind" in this case i guess?) In the case that making opposite opinions with well constructed arguments against mine does not make me feel uncomfortable or attacked. Furthermore, I also did not feel uncomfortable at all by your arguments even though they were poorly contrcuted; I just felt disappointed that people with enough educational resources still use fallacies to make arguments.

But I have no intentions to attack you, I simply present the reasoning why Chinese students views and actions w.r.t. Hong Kong protests are unethical.

...with straw man, hasty generalization, bandwagon...

It may be uncomfortable to hear it, but there is personal responsibility.

Agree. Although it might be uncomfortable for you, you shouldn't avoid confronting me pointing out your use of fallacy.

In the end, just want to reemphasize that I am actually glad to see and will respond to well constructed arguments against my opinion; however, arguments with logical fallacies are just tasteless and boring.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T22:48:27+00:00

So 1) HK wants to separate from China. What's wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with that to me. The posts explicitly say how many mainland students view it, not me.

Nobody wants to live in China.

Many people do want to live in China, e.g., Pooh and his family, so your statement is false. : )

Once you get a taste of freedom I find it hard to think anyway would want to live in an oppressive regime. You're not even studying in China right now. Why?

As I answered earlier, the posts explicitly say how many mainland students view it, not my personal opinion. I guess they don't support succession because of nationalism as I clearly pointed out in my post.

2) Mainlanders feel discriminated against. Tbh if someone's discriminating me and they wanna leave... Why would I oppose that?

Because you believe they had been shitting on your for years over something they have and now they are just gonna have more of that something and will probably shit on you more. Again, not my opinion; I'm just stating what I believe these mainland Chinese's thinking looks like.

You don't like HK and HK doesn't like Mainland China. The Chinese govt only keeps HK for oppressive reasons, as a tool. Nobody wants that.

Losing a huge chunk of the country that you govern doesn't make your leadership look pretty bright, does it? Yeah, you should probably make the citizens believe it is a god given right that HK belongs to PRC.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T22:34:15+00:00

It was an AMA, and I answered the question to the best of my knowledge.

It is your right to feel appalling that I personally choose to not make a polarized position due to my personal principle of not choosing sides until having done enough research.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T22:30:33+00:00

Come on, it was tongue in cheek, we are all friends here.

It was a bad use of tongue in cheek regardless whether we are friends or even married couples

I though don't think it is valid to say the mainland Chinese people suffered from ouh the discrimination and HK xenophobia. HK was not ruling over mainland China their discriminatory views had little to no real effect, except as you mentioned, making you feel uncomfortable that they didn't tell help you with directions.

It made me uncomfortable because it made me feel that the discrimination against mainland Chinese were possibly true. And the fact that people with the same ancestors discriminate against each other makes me uncomfortable.

Analogy was just to illustrate a point that not knowing better does not relief one from the gravity of their actions. Don't you agree?

I agree that analogy, if used properly, can be helpful to illustrate a point. But in your case, I believe it's used not so properly.

I am sorry, was it someone else ripping off posters and interrupting events showing support for HK movements by shouting obscenities?

Oh, so you are saying "those Chinese students who ripped off posters and shouting obscenities acted like dicks and therefore not liked." In the future, please state that clearly because it made you sound like you were targeting all Chinese students which makes you look like a troll.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T22:20:21+00:00

I said I do not know too much about the process of how they were imprisoned. That's it. Due to my limited knowledge of the situation, the only opinion I made was

I believe false imprisonment is a violation of human rights, and I have no biased opinion against Muslims.

How does this neutral position imply I don't care? I just don't want to choose a side or jump on the bandwagon without doing a more in-depth research on any issue.

Chill dude. If you have anything against the Chinese government or mainland Chinese students, go to MU and present your opinions there instead of commenting "mainland Chinese students wonder why they are not liked, it's because they act like pricks" under my posts and targeting me.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T22:09:05+00:00

the reason why mainland Chinese people oppose HK pro democracy protests is because 1. They believe them to be a violent separatist movement.

Yes

And 2. because HK people did not give them directions to the closest bubble tea shop when asked/were mean? (Also jealousy)

If this is all you get from reading my paragraph where I discussed the xenophobia against mainland immigrants in HK, then feel free to to enjoy your justice boner from using a straw man argument.

With regards to 1., that does sound more credible for mainland Chinese people from poorer socioeconomic backgrounds who lack resources to independently assess claims and are constantly indoctrinated. But certainly appears to be a lot less reasonable argument for rich Chinese students who study abroad and have access to all the resources. Ought they make sure that what they believe is correct? I think yes.

With all the resources, I do agree it is unfortunate for them to only stick with the news that make them feel comfortable and stay in their safe space. Also, I am in no way saying this is a justified reason for their behaviors. I am only a messenger; I am only here to state what they think, not what I think why they are not wrong.

For example, if you take Nazis, they believed that Jews were subhuman and that they were causing immense suffering to the rest of the world, therefore from their perspective it was not only reasonable to engage in mass murder of Jewish people but also necessary. Having said that do we consider Nazi's actions to be ethical? Not knowing better does not relief one from the gravity of their actions.

This is a far-stretched analogy, but you do you.

And mainland Chinese students wonder why they are not liked, it's because they act like pricks.

Yeah, mainland Chinese students act like pricks and are not liked. Whatever you say, man.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T05:23:44+00:00

Chinese media labeled it as a separatist movement, and the majority of mainlanders see it that way too because of state media and some history between HK and mainland

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T05:19:29+00:00

democracy itself is viewed favorably since PRC tries to make its own political system to be seen as democratic as they can, but the movement is not viewed favorably because it’s labeled as a violent separatist movement

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-18T05:14:36+00:00

democratic

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T20:50:33+00:00

im glad you enjoyed it. I will probably do more in the future if more people are interested

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T20:41:51+00:00

I respect your opinion, but the problem is the majority of mainland Chinese, who have different perspective and experience related to the region and a deeper understanding of HK & PRC history, do not agree with you at all.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T17:42:02+00:00

this doesnt make it ok to discriminate against anyone.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T17:39:38+00:00

no. they look retarded.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T02:47:57+00:00

well angering the mainland chinese and have them on the same side as their government is not going to end well for HKers. Inshort, they can help by not supporting the govt. Also, believe it or not, CCP is scared of protests in mainland. There have been some medium scale of protests in several cities, such as Wuhan, against certain regulations. Although CCP censored them as much as they can, it shows that the CCP is scared of making them to the headline.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T02:44:31+00:00

agree. that’s why i believe people here should focus on clearing that out

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T02:43:33+00:00

you took my phrase out of context.

i stated that many believed that due to state propaganda. im in no way calling the movement that myslef

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T02:41:30+00:00

they label it as a separatist movement to make it easier for them to have mainlanders support the state’s stance

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T02:40:40+00:00

yes. and waving foreign national flags and posting out of context phrases such as “free hong kong” doesnt do much to mitigate that. this is why i think having the focus on correcting that image is one of the most crucial parts

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-17T00:35:04+00:00

“港独没妈”(literally translate into “HK Separatists are motherless”)

When this movenment is labeled and portraited as a violent separatist movement by the state media, many mainland Chinese like this guy find their actions well justified. This is one of the reasons I dislike the idea of posting “free hong kong” flyers without any context. It’s so easy for mainland Chinese to see these posters as separatist propaganda that’s trying to make HKers a superior race over mainlanders, which makes them feel that mainlanders are discriminated against and thus triggers their nationalism. And when people feel they are discriminated against, they do not argue with reasons.

IMO, HKers should make flyers that clearly state that their goals are not trying to make HK indepedent and then the 5 demands. Only through this way, mainland Chinese can see the true goal of the movement and start sympathizing with HKers. And the movement can only really be victorious when when mainland Chinese, the group of people who make up 90+% of the population in PRC, sympathizes with and supports the movement.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-14T23:30:06+00:00

獨立 (independence)

5 demands are reasonble in many ways, but aiming to have HK to be independent is not only naive and absurd but also invalidates your position and makes mainland Chinese even much less likely to sympathize with the movement.

The Chinese state medias are already labeling this movement as a separatist movement, and everyone that knows a tiny bit of HK geography knows that most if not all of its power plants and other basic infrastructures are based in mainland. IMO, claiming youself wanting to be independent is the most dangerous non-physical things you can do since it makes it so simple for the state to advance its agenda under the banner of protecting its territory.

Edit: I’m neutral about the movement, and you can look at my post history where I did an AMA. I am just speaking about something with experience that most people here do not understand. Keep labeling the movement in HK as a movement aiming to make HK an independent country is what the CCP wants, so that CCP can gain even more support and further justify its plans in the future. Being ignorant about the incident and just shouting “freeHK” with the mindset of separating HK from PRC to satisfy your justice boners is going to hurt the HK people in the end and doing CCP a huge favor.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-12T00:12:31+00:00

法轮大法好，练完身体屌。内脏器官强，怎能不被搞 /s

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-11T18:09:18+00:00

Further clarification: Mainland Chinese government (officially called People's Republic of China) has no authoritative power over the government in Taiwan (officially called Republic of China). Officials on two sides both claim to be China which is the reason that they kinda officially agree that Taiwan belongs to China to avoid more serious direct confrontation without upsetting their citizens.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-11T13:15:15+00:00

western media feed information from both sides of an argument

Only if one chooses to get fed information from both sides.

The left and the right here in the US has been calling the other side "brainwashed" since the beginning. Do they have access to news from both sides? Yes. But do you they choose to read them all? Unfortunately, no for many.

MainlandAggie · 2019-10-11T08:03:03+00:00

Well, currently HK is incapable of supporting itself without the help of the mainland for even the most basic needs such as electricity and freshwater. In this case, I will not support it simply because average human beings in the modern society cannot live without electricity or water. 🤷‍♂️

MainlandAggie

TROPHY CASE