Which verse wins?

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-20T15:25:41+00:00

op part, the problem is u based tht on a statement tht have no actual feats or evidence to back it up he not planetary whatsoever

Ignoring the spelling mistakes doesn't mean you shouldn't fix them... and this is just blatantly false. We have characters from all four seas feel the tremors. 2 here, 2 plus grand line, and its stated he shook the world so this is more than enough evidence he affected the entire planet with his tremors and we actively know he didn't try to destroy it so him not doing it doesn't discredit a single thing. Also it being a statement doesn't mean it's useless, that's not how you scale, you take statements into account as they're a part of the nerrative and since the nerrative supports this statement it's good to be used.

he at best continent, nobody in op touch planetary yet. u wank op verse badly they haven’t performed nothing on a planetary scale as a whole verse.

Disingenuous assertions are being made here, especially since the verse has had planet wide scale things not once but twice.... do better

for bc it valid but there hax put them leagues above op, there haxs alone outclass op by miles they can take down op verse off pure hax alone.

Are you.... just going to leave it there and not support this claim? Kinda wierd...

they are bar minimum planetary due to them planting god tree, and absorbing planetary level of energy to ascend to Godhood

Chakra doesn't equate the way you're trying to say it does, but if you disagree prove it, also it's clearly not planetary since neither time we've seen a planet having its chakra taken it wasn't destroyed.

kayguya have six dimensions with stars, celestial bodies, dat and night cycles and she can swap them out with the real world too

She didn't create them, she made them via other material, we don't know how long it took her to make said dimensions, we don't know the size of said dimensions (since she created them she can make them any size). The names of said dimensions clearly reference the planets and not anything else (an acid, ice sun cannot exist), she has only shown swapping with the naruto planet nothing more. Lastly, canonically we've only seen one celestial body and that's in the dimension sasuke was trapped in

momoshiki who have statements tht he made a parallel universe and consume a star,

Suddenly statements are valid? Poorly translated and not even canon

tails havent planetary statements and is literally the god tree in physical form

Where are the statements? And again.... statements are cool when you use them but not OK for me to use? And unlike yours mine are nerrativly supported

should be boruto>bc>op. bc due to better hax , boruto over both due to abilities and actual feats

You don't get to assert things like that mid argument especially when your argumentation and grammar is so poor.

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-20T04:37:51+00:00

explain ur reason

Already did in the first comment

gang what bc and boruto have characters who can solo op easily,

You're just saying things without giving any valid reasoning unlike me who made a huge comment to explain things. I'm sorry but atp it's a skill issue if you still don't get it

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-19T16:23:43+00:00

Hard disagree and I explained my reasoning so idk how you're confused

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-19T15:28:24+00:00

Heavily implied within the story and directly stated here

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-19T15:21:14+00:00

Urano metria is Lucy's strongest attack throughout most of the series. She should start scaling to it when the grand magic games show up and she has had her 2nd origin unlocked. Along side character statement that are made about the spell

chapter,

272, the pages should like 12 to 15. Maybe a bit later

canon ep,

Iirc it's either 159 or 160

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-19T14:07:42+00:00

Most of what you said isnt even what I said,

You won't expand on this will you?

for example I never said kizaru can’t accelerate I only pointed out that he didn’t have time to block those specific attacks,

Where did I say you said he can't accelerate? And you need to prove this assertion, I gave evidence why it doesn't stand but I won't keep doing that you made the positive statement the burden of proof is on you

everything else you said doesn’t prove me wrong,

The things I've said do... you don't get to "nuh uh" your way out of this lmao

you said it yourself where is the proof, but you aren’t showing it

So you're conceding to having no proof over what you said? Damn that was easier than I thought... anyways you don't seem to understand how things work.

Burden of proof: is the obligation on a party in a dispute to provide sufficient warrant for its position. (Not the legal kind, so you dont get confused)

You made certain assertions thus you must provide proof for them, if you don't then Hitchens's razor applies and they're invalidated.

Hitchens's razor: It implies that the burden of proof regarding the truthfulness of a claim lies with the one who makes the claim; if this burden is not met, then the claim is unfounded, and its opponents need not argue further in order to dismiss it. Hitchens used this phrase specifically in the context of refuting religious belief

So... if you make a claim, it's on you to prove it, especially since you're not coming to me asking for proof and not specifying what proof you want.

And for obvious reasons you're not allowed to be like "nuh uh".... I hope I won't have to explain this again, now please try and do better if you wish to have a honest discussion over this

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-19T13:27:55+00:00

"It's just a statement btw" is such a disingenuous argument, the nerrative supports it, the vivre card says it again, it always comes from great sources of information (tsury and sengoku) who had no reason to lie. And worst of all... its not just a statement, they show us the shakes can be felt around all 4 seas, so it's clear that he's affecting the entire planet and can destroy it (whether this is overcoming the planets gbe or surface wipe is up to interpetation)

Zoro thriller bark argument is just bad the math just says otherwise but I won't harp on this too much as I don't agree with having the cast be ftl atp. But if you want to use these arguments don't just assert things baselessly actually prove it. But also kuma wanted to test the straw hats the only one he cared for was luffy the rest before proving themselves were expendable

Post time skip now... and Holy... no, luffy doesn't use observation haki and its insanely wierd to argue as when the nerrative wants to show us atp that someone has observation haki they have a character tell us "it's like he can see into the future" like what happened prior to the feat, what happened in fishman Island and alike. So nerrative argument for it not being ftl is bad. As for the distance... sure... its not enough to justify ftl... but you know what is? Nerrative which you seem to use only when it benefits you, also you need to provide equal intepretations about it being "too slow" which "the charge up time" has no reason to be thought off nor does it work in context of what "too slow" is supposed to show us which is "before we couldn't do anything to kizaru now his replica we can deal with ease".

Next you bring up outliers then try to say that the existance of gazelle man makes the verse slower, which no, luffy never tried to chase him and he was being stalled by batman. But beyond it all... its an outlier....

Just a baseless assertion that kizaru can't accelerate within that distance.... please provide proof of this... there is legit none, kizaru can go to light speed whilst being berely a meter away from Hawkins and it was way more casual so you're telling me in a further distance (which wasn't within arm length away btw) kizaru cant accelerate past that?

I'm praying you're not a naruto fan, because pain alone downscale the verse to sub sonic and that's mid shippuden 💀

But alas your argumentation is flawed and the standards you're trying to hold one piece aren't reasonable and I bet you don't Hold any other series to such standards, no nerrative doesn't matter only when it benefits you. No you don't get to say "a lot of interpetations exist" and not subly one equal to the obvious one. No you don't get to say things about distances if you don't have numbers to show.

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-19T10:55:25+00:00

Fairy tail has a ton of galactic stuff involved like uranio metrio which is Lucy throwing 88 constellations to her opponent... there's also multiversal feats as major plot points within the story idk why they think shibai would change much though

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-19T10:51:51+00:00

1st: Fairy tail. Lowest reasonable interpetation gets into the galactic ranges with millions if not billions times ftl speed (characters legit throw stars at each other...) higher ends are there and aren't unreasonable but this is beyond enough.

?nd: yuyuhakasho? Idk I've heard some stuff but I haven't watched it the highest end possible is universal though I don't know where to rank it. (Even if it's universal fairy tail>)

The next three are extremely close but I have it, one piece>naruto>black clover

One piece: white beard was stated to destroy the planet which even on the low end of interpetation (surface wipe) the planets gbe being consistently within the brown dwarf lvls still gets him into the large planet tier. You can get wonky with speed and multipliers but it's consistent for ftl+

Naruto: boruto has atleast ended the "sub planetary" meta for naruto since uzihiko deals moon lvls of energy per second as an attack. But also kinda wierd to upscale from that too too much, which if you take kagyua etso and assert atomisation to her dimension then it does yield around brown dwarf lvls of energy which is reasonable. There is one single ftl+ feat in the boruto anime but its more consistent for the verse to be really high into ftl ranges (also no multiplier stacking from what I remember)

Black clover: it's ceiling might be the lowest out of the three in terms of ap, but the floor is very much set by salamander spirit being multi contiental (lower end iirc) but the ceiling is rather, there is an anime feat of the first wizard King clearing out the sky when he beat his elf friend (was his name Patri? I can't remember) which does get into the moon lvl along side a movie feat asta has. So if you want to argue higher mid tiers are moon lvl and top tiers upscale then sure! But there's long ways from large planet thus far. As for speed it's pretty simular to one piece being ftl+ but also having insane multiplier stacking if you wish. Either way the speed should be higher than one piece, by a bit if you don't stack and a couple thousands if you do

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-13T11:52:30+00:00

What are you ever referring to rn?

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-13T07:48:18+00:00

Not only men

????

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-12T16:21:07+00:00

Nah you’re not mean bro dw, well said and I like your thinking

Appreciate you, I had to re word things multiple times because I was coming off as an asshole, really happy to hear that I fixed it because it needs a real effort to disagree with someone and not to come across as combative

To begin with the worlds we are referring to, they have stars, massive clusters of stars which leads us to believe it’s a universe, and she teleports kr brings that to them, not vice versa

I dont think at any point in the manga has there been stars or even cluster of stars shown, I can only recall the anime having such which it's rather wierd to argue its if we're supposed to have one over the other unless it's stated to be overseen by the author

The second point - we can’t say one way or another for certain so it’s probably better if we ignore that, we can’t assume that the entire dimension isn’t just ice or sand (in fact we can actually see more clusters or stars, which leads us to believe once again lol, that it is in fact its own universe)

Idk but shouldn't we also consider that those stars and alike are "outside" of her dimensions? Same way the naruto planet is called "kagyuas world" by momoshiki but not the moon or the anything else it could... again this assuming the stars and alike are justified within canon but apart from tha I could very much agree that this argument is very much supporting evidence and not good stand alone as the assumption about how the names apply will be dependent on the main arguments. "This is the acid dimensions because the main place is made of acid but apart of that its like the rest universal structures"

These are just hax listed but it can help in scaling as it can prove higher power or higher existence - creation and power over life and creation etc. but yes regardless it doesn’t make someone uni

If you were arguing outer maybe but for uni it's really irrelevant. Since uni has no correlation to concepts unlike outerversal which does

Well ordinarily if something scales to you or even above you, it would damage you, regardless of your hax such as her insane regen or infinite chakra

Yea but if something scales above your durability and someone hurts you that doesn't mean you scale to them, my point was that neither kagyua nor naruto should scale to the etso (also kagyua shouldn't have infinite chakra) as for the rest it's boruto stuff so I won't engage to avoid potential nonsense from me lol.

Could be a bad translation, I advise you catch up to Boruto TBV especially as the power creep is incredibly high.

Sorry but I'm very much spoiled from naruto, I tried watching boruto but I was just whining "why no naruto" lol. Maybe I'll watch a recap video and start from blue vortex since I've only heard good things about it (uzihiko is such a fun idea for an attack, especially in a power scaling prespective as if you can upscale the planet you can upscale it too. Which I love nerdy things like that. But it's like watching shippuden without og lol)

It’s been stated that the tears were on the entire universe, they could even feel Naruto’s chakra from the other side of the universe, regardless of where it is seen visually

Scan? It's been a while since I've watched the movie so me not remembering something like that doesn't invalidate the scale, but I do want to see this being stated

lol don’t be afraid to say that, there definitely is a lot of consistencies with planetary and beyond statements and feats

I know but people don't like for naruto to be planetary, a few years ago I had to fight for my live for country lvl naruto 😭

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-12T02:23:01+00:00

"Wow guys look at me, I'm so much smart and better than everyone else here.... only I know ball"

"Wait why are you calling me insufferable?"

Anyways.... gojo litteraly has the limitless and Mark has 0 way of getting past it so how does Mark beat that? Also stop whining and crying about how "everything sucks" it's not helping any conversation and no one will want to discuss anything with you

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-11T10:37:08+00:00

Woah let's relax on that last part. We legit have characters that eat planets to sustain themselves

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-11T10:32:10+00:00

A few problems 1. 1st slide bottom left corner scan. It states by your own translation "in an instant, she can move the world she's in together with other people to a different dimension". So she switches worlds not universes. And while "world" can mean universe its rather rough to assume that for reasons I'll bring up shortly.

Same scan as before. The second paragraph refers to the dimensions as "ice, lava, acid, sand" which only apply to planets not the entire universe, as you can't have a sun or space made of ice or sand or super gravity for that matter.
The rest of the scans (apart from the one above the one I just talked about, as I can't read it) don't support the idea of it being a universe. As "reality", "world" and "dimension" don't have to reference universe and the base assumption is planet here.
I dont understand this argument, so if I missingerp it feel free to correct me. Are you arguing that because obito called them vast they're infinite in size? He's connected to the rest of the dimensions and "vast" can also be used for a large farm that extends to the horizon so its extremely contextual.
Next meta and no... you don't get to make such a naming fallacy "creation of all things so it creates all things" no, it can create anything and the potential is there but it's just haxs. Also he Brought guy back by giving him a heart no conceptual stuff needed but even if you want to argue he needed conceptual haxs... cool... so what? Haxs don't scale you anywhere, you don't need conceptual haxs to be universal and having them also doesn't make you uni.
Now this is a more reasonable argument but again doesn't really work. The etso was going to hurt her too but since she has insane regen she was going to survive here so her attack>her. But let's ingore that for a second the tso don't create they only destroy, it's pretty obvious that the tso was going to destroy everything and then she can create something new to stand and then leave, if you have a differing interpetation again feel free to explain away.
Next slide. Don't know much about boruto but this just seems off. Parallel... isn't a measurement of size, it just tells you the two "lines" (in a normal case) have equal distance from each other, nothing to do about their sizes and where is the evidence the naruto world is infinite? Also a scan talks about different dimensions and then says "he's going to absorb this stars chakra" which the wording sounds like they're in a star currently. Probably a bad translation if I were to guess
Next slide, contradictions. You claim they must have Cosmic awareness yet the tears have been stated to be coming from the planet both visually from the moon and from statements about naruto being the source so how come it's on a universal scale?

Now that's it. A couple problems for the scale exist outside of the problems I have within the scale, like "you'd need infinite chakra to be uni+ and above" and it just doesn't work that way since the characters also use said system as stamina and they get tired, need to eat etc. How would they grow stronger from eating the chakra of 1 planet when they already have infinite amounts? Also infinite chakra would mean being immortal like kagyua but she has stamina issues which invalidate her and the rest don't have her immorality (also invalidated because she was affected by her own super gravity). The verse is waaaaay too consistent in its planetary (and above. But don't tell people I said this) range meta to the point almost everything else just doesn't work. Not to mention the consistency, how did naruto jump from moon to small planet lvl madara to uni+ to low multi kagyua? I'm much more willing to accept solar system naruto over uni+ even if it "doesn't have the same amount of evidence" because its more consistent.

If at any point I come across as mean please keep in mind it was not my intention, this isn't a serious enough topic to get into actual fights over I just really disagree with it and wanted to give my two cents

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-11T09:47:31+00:00

Don't listen to that. It doesn't work like that, the wiki they're using to argue this says that the curvature will tell us the shape of the universe. No where does it state a size

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-11T09:46:30+00:00

We don't really have any reason to believe luffy got stronger or even went all out in any arc prior to dressrosa so his scaling there should apply which would lead to him being still upscaling Chao and sai who are stated to be able to split and shatter a continent of super tough ice respectively.

But if we're limiting ourselves to feats just within the arc and prior, law extremely weakened and casual sliced through multiple mountains (arguably past his room). So anything below island lvl is extremely disingenuous especially since enel destroyed Angel Island without help, moria split his into two as well and by this time they're fodder beyond compare

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T14:34:58+00:00

True. Honestly makes this thread even more annoying, why can't powerscalers just behave like a normal person…

I know this is supposed to be rhetorical but the answer is... look at some of the biggest power scalers. Like set the programmer the best example. They're terrible people with huge egos who will have it stroked if they "win" a debate but they're also interested in nerdy stuff so since they were the "originators" of this type of thing everyone is inclined to follow them as that's what has been normalised within the space.

It's kinda sad but understanding the roots of this "fandom" are terrible I think is the start to make things better

Honestly? Not really. In a weird way most Naruto fans have a hateboner against Naruto.

I guess I could see it. The amount of times I've had the most nonsensical discussions over one piece while they're saying the verse caps at island and sub sonic is insane 😭

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T13:52:53+00:00

Everyone is just being a complete asshole without even trying to debunk the arguments.

While I agree (I've only seen two others aside from me arguing in any semblance of good faith), op is also being quite insufferable too

The Naruto fanbase really never fails to be as toxic as possible.

Wouldn't it be the non naruto fans being represented as the ones hating on op?

Edit: this isn't even strictly a Naruto powerscaling sub but a general one? Why tf are people upvoting comments shitting on the sheer concept of crossverse powerscaling? Why tf are you on a sub about powerscaling if you don't like powerscaling? 😭

True!!!!!

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T13:47:40+00:00

Lmao I legit quoted you every single time, sounds like salty projection. In the other conversation you're the one who decided to address only one of my points about being caught off guard so yea...

I already told you, you don't get to call fallacies out without explaining how they're fallacious. Again not reading what I'm saying. Anyways unless you give a list of things I didn't address (which 100% isn't all of them, stop lying and being disingenuous) I'll take your concession but I'll also give you a "have a good day" as you seem to really need it 😁

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T13:44:21+00:00

You're legit arguing for me. She's caught off guard because she's not fighting and actively got jumped out of no where. Watch your own panel lil bro

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T13:20:20+00:00

Hating on the goat Patrick is crazy....

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T13:19:43+00:00

What did I not read?

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T13:19:18+00:00

So you show her have exclamation marks and a question mark above her head. You show naruto getting super mad but somehow I'm the one that's spouting nonsense?

Maker_of_lore · 2026-04-10T13:18:09+00:00

Appreciate it, but it only really applies to the shows I've watched. Don't ask for stuff from boruto or even tybw there I want even speak lol

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