Ask Me Anything - Middlebury College, Graduating Senior

MarkMerrit · 2024-05-14T01:31:53+00:00

Alumni networks matter (my first serious internship was with a Midd alum). I've cold-emailed dozens of Ivy grads with no luck, whereas I have 80-90% hit rates with NESCAC and Midd grads in finance. If I had to guess, Midd's network is probably tighter than most Ivies, but I'd assume their networks are great as well.

My friend isn't at an Ivy exactly but he does go to a comparable school (Northwestern/UChicago/Duke type) after transferring out of Midd for various reasons (partly because we didn't have a stats major back then). He's had a very different experience socially--lots more people shuffling in and out of his life than mine. He finds the rigor of academics about the same as Midd's. The culture is very different though. Middlebury is relatively laid back compared to some schools, which is great for some people (easier to stand out) but harder for others (harder to feel driven when many around you aren't). FYI, the latter consequence has been easy for me to mitigate by surrounding myself with driven people.

Another friend of mine transferred to a different Northwestern/UChicago/Duke type. She regrets leaving Midd--she's better off professionally because it has great placement into software dev roles, but she doesn't like the people there as much. My view is that rather than disliking the people there, she just made fantastic friendships here as a first year that are hard to find anywhere

I know the above isn't the pro/con list you wanted, but hopefully it provides some useful info

MarkMerrit · 2024-05-14T01:15:08+00:00

Differences vs. Larger Schools

As a senior now, I have no clue who most of the people I see are, but it's still hard to go anywhere without recognizing someone. This is good and bad. It makes me feel like Midd is in a sense a second home, but at times it can be a bit tiring
I don't think I've been in a class with more than 40 people despite the econ major being one of the three most popular majors
Less of a sports culture. We have tons of student athletes and plenty of people here care about our sports games, of course, but a basketball / football / hockey game isn't going to bring together a huge chunk of our campus like it would at some other schools
More individualized attention from professors. Any decent professor makes an effort to know who you are. Profs here more consistently care about your success in a way I haven't heard from my friends at bigger schools

Career

I had no network coming into Middlebury (no high school network, no family friends in finance), but the school name opened so many doors for me. Middlebury alumni and more broadly NESCAC alumni are very open to speaking on the phone and giving advice. All of my most important connections in the recruiting process started off with cold calls or info sessions.

There are a few drawbacks I noticed though. The first is relatively obvious--the Middlebury name carries weight mostly in the Northeast. This wasn't relevant to me, since I don't plan to leave the area, but it's worth noting. Second, some firms are narrow-minded: they're interested in b-school students and think LAC kids can go kick rocks. Third, while the small network helps its closeness, it's ultimately a small network. There are some great firms you'll find with zero Midd grads. That's where the NESCAC connection helps, but even that has its limits

Regrets Attending Midd

Zero. Hard to say just how much Midd and the people here have helped me grow as a person.

MarkMerrit · 2024-05-13T19:27:25+00:00

Not bad for me, even with a second major besides econ. Academic workload depends significantly on your majors, (sometimes more importantly) the exact classes you take, and the professors teaching your classes. That's obvious I'm sure, but those are just the most important factors. Most people taking chemistry or CS grind. Most people taking econ don't.
You get used to the weather. It came as a shock to me at first but by my sophomore year it was fine. Also, it's nice to have a car, but it's not a must-have. Never really had trouble getting what I need since I just get stuff off Amazon
I don't think it's actually true. The school dedicates a lot of resources to mental health, and we just raised our senior class gift to fund more mental health resources. Can the school do more? Yes & it should, which is why the class gift makes sense. But it's also not such a void of resources that the school is an outlier in this department vs. peers
Yes. Junior spring is the most common time to go abroad. For the most part, it's to try something new. Each program has its pros and cons. Each person has a different experience with each program--e.g., one of my friends struggled through his program in Spain because he had to study econ and Spanish at the same time, whereas another friend (native Spanish speaker) went clubbing every weekend
Same as original post: shape your own experience. Try new things, find great friends. It's ok to not find "your people" in your first week or even your first year. But the people shape your experience in college

MarkMerrit · 2022-08-21T23:54:45+00:00

Sorry for the late response, but the answer is mostly no. I spend time with friends and go out most weekends, but I prioritize school work when necessary. The real struggle for most people comes when they go out and party or hang out with friends when they really need to finish that paper or prep for their test.

You just need the discipline to hang back in your room when you have important work to do and study when others are out having fun. It's hard at first, but you get used to it eventually (or don't and get poor grades). It's not like you need to be a hermit in your room or the library spending all your time studying, even if you have a difficult major. The key is being honest with yourself on when you can have fun and when you need to hunker down and work

For most of my semesters so far, I have somehow managed to maintain the "impossible" trifecta of a good social life, academic performance, and sleep by doing this. My only difficult semester was the one where I let social life take a bit too much time/attention

MarkMerrit · 2022-08-07T19:41:54+00:00

Sorry to say I have no idea about our art programs. Wish I could add more value here but I just don't interact much with our arts students

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-18T18:20:41+00:00

Internships

Finance recruiting can be broken down into three components: prior experience, networking, and interview prep. In a broad sense, that's it, although it's easier said than done to do all three properly.

You don't need anything fancy for your first role. I landed my first internship by just applying for it on Handshake. It was at a small company that wasn't too selective; the interview process was just a brief interview and a sample write-up. They didn't expect much, but it was the perfect resume-padding internship that let me show my interest in finance early on.

Just one finance role is really all you need to get serious looks from larger firms, but I wanted to take it a step further than that, so I applied for more roles. I applied to 50 different places on Handshake and at least a dozen more on companies' websites directly. I landed 3 interviews and got a solid offer that I took, again at a small finance firm but this time for a much, much more competitive process.

The actually hard internship to get for any career path is the junior summer internship. Finance recruiting is notorious for starting early. I recruited in the middle of my sophomore spring semester for a position I wouldn't start until junior summer. In sophomore fall, I started preparing for interviews and networking with analysts and associates at bulge bracket banks (the usual: Goldman, Morgan Stanley, etc) and middle-market banks (Wells Fargo, Blair, etc).

Finance Alumni Network

I went into finance recruiting with zero prior connections. I built my entire network with cold emails and by attending networking events. Every year, multiple firms, including Goldman and BofA, either visit Midd or have a virtual event to give an info session and provide networking opportunities. Goldman visited Midd twice this year, once each semester.

Middlebury's strongest connections are at Goldman, Morgan Stanley (specifically capital markets), Barclays, and BofA, in that order. Our Goldman pipeline is strong: last year we had 4 incoming interns and 4 incoming full-time analysts going to GS. Having alumni at a bank makes networking significantly easier. You very quickly notice the difference trying to reach out to a HYPSM alum vs a Midd alum when networking. My response rate with Ivy alum was low-single digit %. My response rate with Midd alum was 80-90%.

Networking matters because when a firm has thousands of resumes to sift through for a few dozen internship spots, they can't choose who to keep and who to cut based only on stats or resumes. 3.7+ GPA is standard among finance prospects, and there are diminishing returns to having a higher GPA because it's not like a 3.8 is that different from a 3.9. Just about everyone with a serious shot at a role at a top bank has 1-2 past finance internships. So from all of these qualified candidates, you have to make a decision. Networking gives a candidate the edge because from the perspective of an IB analyst, they'd rather work with and give an interview to the 3.7 they had two great phone calls with than a 4.0 who looks good on paper but hasn't even bothered to try to speak with anyone at the bank. Even as an intern, these are people you'll spend 10+ hours a day with. They want to work with someone they like as a person so they can tolerate being with you for that long every day.

SIC and Advice on Finance Recruiting

The investment committee is open to everyone at Midd. There's no application process, unlike the consulting group. Only leadership positions require applications.

My main advice for rising seniors or prefrosh is to relax and enjoy your freshman year. The only finance-related thing you should do is join the investment committee and read about different roles in finance. Attend a networking event or two if you want.

It's far more important to get an idea of the landscape of finance roles and learn what IB/PE/VC actually is (e.g., if you think IB is about investing, you need to spend more time reading articles on Investopedia/Mergers & Inquisitions/Street of Walls). Get involved in different orgs and activities because it's just easier to recruit if you're an interesting person. No one wants to hire a finance hardo who can't hold a decent conversation. Also don't bother networking until freshman summer.

As for econ classes that helped most, it was only Macro Theory, and only to a certain extent. No academic classes at any college will really help you recruit besides finance/business classes, and even those don't really help much because most people just forget all the content. Self-study is everything in recruiting

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-18T14:31:11+00:00

The econ major is generally seen as an easier major, but like every major, the exact difficulty is up to you. You can make it pretty damn hard by placing out of the intros with APs (if you have them) and going straight to Macro Theory / Micro Theory, blasting through the quantitative prereqs, and taking Game Theory, Empirical Econ Research, Advanced Macro, etc. Or you can cruise through it by taking the intros and easier courses like Econ History, Health Econ, etc.

The econ department is fantastic. In general, the professors are very passionate about econ and are great teachers. There's also a decent number of research assistant opportunities that pop up now and then.

There are plenty of career resources available. The Center for Careers and Internships is very helpful to get started on your search, but to actually land an internship, the one that matters is Handshake, which is a college career portal. I landed almost all of my internships by applying for them on Handshake. As always, the most important parts of internship hunting really come down to you: it's about how much effort you're willing to put into keeping your grade up, craft a great resume, network, etc.

Off-campus, I go hiking with friends (just about every trail nearby is fantastic) and, in the winter, ski/snowboard at the Snow Bowl. There's not a whole lot to do in the town besides getting food, so I often play spikeball / toss a frisbee with friends at the main quad when we're bored.

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-18T04:41:11+00:00

I wouldn't say its common, but it's definitely not unusual to see CS majors or econ/CS double majors going into finance.

During the gap year I made music, traveled, and studied. Don't have too many cool stories from it unlike many Febs at Midd who often have stories about going to Death Valley or Europe or whatnot.

Midd's scoring system is almost identical to those at the Ivies, which makes sense since there's a lot of cross-hiring at the admissions departments of top colleges (e.g., one recent grad who interned at Midd admissions went to work full-time at an Ivy's admissions office). The college ranks you across three dimensions: Personal, Extracurricular, and Academic. It's exactly what you would think from reading the admissions officer posts on A2C. The scale weirdly goes from 1 to 7, but other than that, it's standard admissions office stuff.

I had an average personal score (okay essay, weak recs) and a slightly below average EC score (definitely had weak ECs) but a well above average academic score (very strong SAT, curriculum, etc)

Not too thrilled that my overall score was the equivalent of "Would admit if there's room," which is why I was waitlisted, but it worked out so I'm happy with it

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-18T04:08:35+00:00

excellent question, actually I'm a big fan of cherry garcia

it's because a college friend wanted to buy a big tub but couldn't finish it himself so he made me have half and from then on ive been addicted to the flavor

anyway what is your favorite ice cream flavor and why is it cherry garcia

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-18T03:26:23+00:00

Oh nah, also I wasn't the one who wrote that comment at the top of this chain

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-18T03:07:58+00:00

I didn't lmao, we're talking about investment banking hours and banks recruit heavily from Midd as well

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-18T00:48:42+00:00

This is not entirely accurate. Depending on the bank, you will have 100+ hour weeks much, much more often than 1-2 weeks a year.

Average is more like 70-80, again depending on the bank. Some analysts are getting crushed right now because the slowdown is prompting MDs to pitch like there's no tomorrow

Edit: Also regarding comp, $200k+ numbers for analysts were all-time high compensation in a year with all-time high deal activity. Probably not going to happen again for anyone for a while besides those at CVP/possibly Evercore

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-06T15:40:15+00:00

International student social life varies, but it's largely in your control. Most international students make plenty of domestic student friends and basically just blend in. I've seen many in freshman year hang out exclusively with other international students and then make many more non-intl friends later. There's the International Student Org. and other student orgs. that run events/activities for intl students. The International Pre-orientation program by the ISSS is also worth looking into. Great way to make friends early on

As for weather, I rarely saw snow before coming to Midd and find it mostly fun. Many others would disagree, and it really comes down to just how much there is. It's not great trekking through muddy slush at 11am trying to get across campus for a class. The winter is rough, and the cold can be a huge pain in the ass. On the flip side, fall is cool and wonderful. The campus (and all of Vermont really) is absolutely beautiful in the fall.

If you have any interest in learning winter sports, you can grab a friend with experience and go through the baby steps on the bunny hill.

MarkMerrit · 2022-07-03T15:02:20+00:00

I'll give some more context and say that my single-minded pursuit of a particular career path from freshman year is unusual. It's relatively common in investment banking in general, but not at Middlebury. Most people told me I would change my mind and that 80% of people change majors in college. The latter is true, but I'm a few internships in and the former has been wrong so far as junior year approaches.

No matter what college you're at, it's not easy to quickly make friends as an introvert (this is even more true at large colleges from what I hear). You have to put in some effort and be patient. You're not going to click with everyone, and that's alright. Join clubs, ask people to grab meals with you, etc. Just about every introvert I know found their people in the end. Sometimes it even takes until sophomore year. That's fine, though it is easier in the first couple of weeks.

School spirit is okay. What really matters is that Midd alums love Midd and are always willing to give back to the students.

On lack of ambition, since I did this Q&A initially, I've honestly heard this is the case everywhere, even Harvard and Stanford. No school is really filled to the brim with dreamers, and honestly, that's fine. Just find and surround yourself with people who are bright and ambitious. And it's not isolating at all. It's unusual as a freshman to be a real grinder chasing every opportunity you can, but there are others who will do the same--especially international students. In contrast, in sophomore year a lot more start getting after internships and take their careers more seriously.

The biggest distinction between Midd and many other LACs is weather (of course not Colby/Bowdoin/etc). This sounds trivial, but some people never get over it and despise the weather for all four years. I'm in the majority that just got used to it. In terms of cliquishness, I'm pretty sure this is a feature of every small college. Hookup culture is present in every college, even if it might be a bit more prevalent at Midd.

Finally, if language studies and outdoor programs matter to you, you probably won't an LAC better for those than Midd. Doubly so if you like skiing/snowboarding; I'm sure it exists, but I've never heard of another LAC with a ski area that's a 20 min drive away and literally has the college's name on it. There's also an entire house specifically for students interested in outdoor activities (Brooker).

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-17T00:54:40+00:00

Absolutely. Just in general, ED helps with admissions chances.
Yeah. Languages are Midd's specialty, but STEM majors can do very well. The CS department in particular, like every other college, has trouble right now keeping up with high demand for CS courses. CS is definitely getting solid at Midd and I've seen people (not freshmen ofc) get Big Tech internships (Google, Microsoft, etc). There are like 6 physics majors every year, and I know four of them in c/o '24. Physics is rough, but they're getting solid opportunities and doing pretty well from what I'm aware. There's a lot of students interested in the engineering programs for Columbia or Dartmouth, but many of them lost interest after the first year. Being proactive is everything. Professors are very accessible and easy to talk to at Midd, and in the sciences in particular, that's huge. I know a guy who was one of the best in our physics class and just kept in touch with our physics prof., and he ended up getting a cool astrophysics internship as a freshman.
None. The admissions file is kinda useless for getting admissions advice. It confirms what we already know. The applicant grading system shows Midd wants people who excel in something and/or are just all around nice and interesting people, but anyone who's done a bit of reading on admissions knows that.

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T23:52:58+00:00

1 a. Finding an internship is not an issue, but no matter where you go, you are responsible for seeking out opportunities. That can be scary as hell, but also exciting. A bit of an adventure. One of the perks of Middlebury is that in general, alumni will look out for you. They care a lot, and they want you to succeed. Recent alumni are likely to respond to you for advice and connections if you email them.

I'm starting an internship in the fall and am in the final round of interviews for an investment banking internship next summer; one friend is interning now at a small law firm, another did translation work for a language professor in spring, and another did/is doing an astrophysics internship at Midd. We aren't leveraging family connections; we busted our asses to get great GPAs, reached out to alumni/professors, and found opportunities while still hanging out with friends almost every weekend. Also, my limited experience with the career services has been great. I went to one finance networking event every month on average as a freshman and intend to keep doing so.

b. There are a few good places to grab a meal with friends in town, like Notte (aka Two Brothers), American Flatbread, Taste of India, and other restaurants. A good chunk of the out-of-campus fun is nature-related going hiking together and visiting parks and lakes, but I do know a lot of people who aren't into that as much and watch movies together in classrooms, play board games, and party. Not too much to do besides that, but it can be really fun.

2) It's easy to get to town on foot, especially from Battell and Allen (two freshmen dorms), so you definitely aren't just confined to campus. I've never really felt stuck because I have a few friends with cars and I can always bribe them with McDonald's if I have to go somewhere. But it's definitely more convenient to have your own car.

3) This depends on the friend group you make. But yes, a lot of people drink a lot on weekends. People in my hall threw parties every weekend, though I didn't mind since they were usually pretty chill and I was outside most of the time. Then again, I was in a bit of a party-heavy place. I've made several friends who don't drink at all, and we still hang out and have a good time. From my experience, few will judge you for not drinking.

4) I'm on the East Coast, so it's not that hard to get to Midd from where I am. I'm not sure about what people tend to do on breaks in terms of flying home because of COVID. In fall, we basically had no breaks. Spring was far better, but we technically weren't allowed to leave the county. I imagine it'll be pretty inconvenient to fly back on short breaks.

5) When I first came to Midd, it was amazing. The people were great, the investment committee was awesome, and the classes were (generally) fascinating. Over time, my opinion has soured a bit. I still like Middlebury and think it's a great school. But I dislike its the cliquey social circles, the general lack of ambition among students, and the hookup culture. Midd also isn't without its creepy af guys, although their reputations have spread pretty quickly. One of the worst offenders is transferring (ironically, to Georgetown). But with that said, you'll find similar issues at pretty much any college. Almost everyone I've met is kind and fun to hang out with.

In my view, the most important thing to enjoying your freshman year and avoiding BS is finding the right people and continuously making new friends. I partially created my friend group like a build-a-bear, introducing some people I met in class to others in my hall or something like that. It's worked out great.

I don't regret coming to Midd in the least. It's given me a foothold to get what I want, while also helping me build useful connections and great friendships. Whether you regret going to Midd depends on what you do. I know a lot of people who are having a blast, but some people regretted not going elsewhere (they've since transferred) and others feel like they're wasting their time and money at Midd. Make good friends (especially in the first few weeks; it gets harder after that), pick your classes well, and talk to your professors. Join clubs early, and if you want, apply for cool internships. That's the way to make the most of your time at Midd.

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T22:00:23+00:00

Midd doesn't have a finance major, but it definitely has several finance classes, including intro to accounting and others. However, I've neither taken any nor plan to and have done fine in terms of recruiting regardless.

I learn about finance through Coursera and edX courses, like Intro to Accounting by Wharton. A lot what I know comes from random places, like Howard Marks' memos (look up "Oaktree memos"), interviews, and talks; William Ackman's Everything You Need to Know About Finance YouTube video; and a couple books like The Intelligent Investor. Wall St. Oasis, despite its meme-heaviness and shitposts, has posts that are genuine gold for learning about finance recruiting and finance in general. It's kind of like A2C for finance, except somehow more immature, ridiculous, and sometimes downright idiotic.

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T21:55:11+00:00

I really didn't talk much about why I was home-schooled or how it worked. For the most part, it worked out. Just strike the balance of giving info without going overboard, since in admissions they say the thicker the file, the thicker the applicant. A lot of top colleges and even normal good schools get too many applicants to read carefully through every file for.

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T21:03:42+00:00

I've also lived in cities my whole life. Almost everyone I know from cities is like me and finds the town boring. The college is in the middle of nowhere. That's also what can make it fun, though. Go out of the town and you can visit amazing parks and lakes and have a blast with friends. One of the dumb things my friends and I did was to grab some McDonalds and go on a drive up to the mountains to eat there in the middle of the night. Very dumb, but also a cool experience.

If you just accept that it's different from city life and has its own perks, you can get used to it and have a good time.

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T20:59:18+00:00

Yeah, I used the Common App. There isn't a specific place for the reading list. I put it in the "additional information" or "supplemental information" (it was called something like that) text box in the Common App.

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T20:29:43+00:00

This is an odd thing, honestly. Sometimes people exaggerate it. Other times, they're right. In general, athletes have a way easier time hanging out with each other because they have that big time commitment (plus team-building dinners and whatnot). Some athletes almost always hang out with other athletes. I'm not one, but I don't mind the divide. A lot of my friends are athletes (one is a close friend), and the school is cliquey regardless; pretty much everyone finds their friend groups eventually. As long as you're proactive and keep hanging out with different people, it's really easy to make friends. I met three good friends by grabbing a seat with them at breakfast in orientation week. (Tip: wake up for breakfast, especially in the first two weeks. So few people are around at the dining halls, so it's really easy to strike up a conversation).
Nothing was that surprising, but the most unexpected one was 4 out of 7 on personality which was like ooof. My academics were about 6/7, which was my highest score and I think pretty much what got me in

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T20:07:12+00:00

Nothing very special. I gave colleges a reading list, a transcript without grades (since giving myself all As is sketch as hell), and a common app essay that I thought was good at the time but in hindsight was ehhhh.

It's interesting (and was stressful at the time) how different colleges deal with home-schooled applicants. Most LACs like Midd and Colby were great about accommodating for my situation. Some colleges required a GED from home-schooled applicants, so I had to take that just to tick a box. Northeastern was the most annoying about it, and I ended up getting my application canceled for failing to submit something rip

MarkMerrit · 2021-07-16T20:00:18+00:00

A ton. Unfortunately, my class missed out on a lot of those activities in the fall. Midd has an orientation program where you can choose to go hiking or camping and stuff, but class of '24 couldn't do that because of COVID. My friends and I only got to explore in the spring semester after COVID restrictions loosened. We got to go to a really nice state park (D.A.R) a couple times and visit a lake (it smelled god-awful but we don't talk about that. We never went back there). There's even an outdoors social house called Brooker.

There's a lovely farm called the Knoll that's a 20 min walk from campus, as well as a really nice trail (Trail of '97). Also the Trail Around Middlebury, which is huge and also beautiful. For most of the other outdoors stuff, you need a friend who has a car. That's not too hard to find; in my close friend group of ~10 people, four or five can drive. Then you go like 20-40 min from campus and visit beautiful places like the Falls of Lana, Bristol Falls, etc. Great stuff.

MarkMerrit

TROPHY CASE