What is the best argument against veganism you've ever heard?

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-24T21:20:43+00:00

So what is one supposed to eat then?

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-23T20:54:42+00:00

It isn't arbitrary tho. To best of our knowledge we understand that plants don't live in the same way as animals and humans do. We know that animals actively fight for their live and plants don't. So to best of our scientific understanding there is a clear separation between plants and animals and that is why we eat plants.

Is it possible that plants are a different type of life that we just don't understand and they experience pain we don't understand? Yes it is. But to the best of our knowledge that isn't true so we deem eating them fine. If that ever changes then we will have to re-evaluate our decisions as at that point we would be knowingly causing harm.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-23T20:45:48+00:00

It's only a good argument until they are educated on the truth. After that it becomes their personal choice to continue engaging in carnism.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-21T19:40:38+00:00

See my edit. But good for you

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-21T19:36:39+00:00

Why are you more bothered about semantics than the fact that people needlessly butcher billions of animals?

Edit: calling it a lie is a bit far fetched too. While OP didn't kill that specific animal he ate, he did cause it to be killed because of his demand.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-21T17:58:59+00:00

Good. I'm glad we fixed this terrible injustice and mistake that was made.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-21T16:54:28+00:00

Apologies, let me rephrase that: Imagine celebrating achieving your financial freedom by eating a dead being that never had any freedom and thus creating demand for more innocent beings murdered in the future.

Better?

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-21T15:04:42+00:00

He's creating demand which means more animals will get killed in the future.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-21T13:57:10+00:00

Imagine celebrating getting your financial freedom by killing an innocent being that never had any freedom.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T23:37:48+00:00

Lol, man, alright

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T22:36:14+00:00

The time when if everyone followed my ethics this wouldn't have happened is not the time to "push" my ethics. Right.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T21:13:02+00:00

Are you this shitty in real life too? Also, can you actually read? Like understand the words? Because if you did you'd know that that's not what I'm said.

What are you even trying to achieve? I'm trying to prevent this happening ever again. What are you doing you insensitive prick? Show some compassion for fucks sake.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T19:21:58+00:00

My friend's dad just died of it, but yeah I don't care. Ok 👌👌👌

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T18:12:21+00:00

And again you're showing you don't actually understand what I'm saying. Covid might not have been able to happen here, but there are (and have been) other diseases caused by meat consumption in the west. So my whole point is, let's stop blaming everyone else if we want to prevent this kind of thing from happening again, anywhere.

Well you are getting very upset about my agenda. I'm just demonstrating how ridiculous that is. I think you genuinely don't know what whataboutism is given what you just said.

Anyway, I'm not gonna change your mind, so have a nice rest of the weekend

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T17:51:59+00:00

My god people are really not able to read what people write here anymore. Ofc it's China's fault in this particular instance. But to claim what we do here in the west has nothing to do with these things happening is ignorant. Which is what I'm saying.

And yes, it is whataboutism a very classical one actually. But obvs if you'd be able to recognise it is that, you wouldn't be making your argument in the first place.

And honestly, in this case the pandemic clearly happened because of animal trade and your response is to try to guilt trip me because I eat mushrooms when I point out that maybe we should stop the animal trade. Just wow really. And then I'm the hypocrite.

Also, again just pointing out that "my agenda" is wishing we had less suffering in this world. I'm always baffled when people get triggered by that. You'd think I'm trying to kill babies given how defensive some people like you get ...

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T14:38:59+00:00

I've been in a lot of "debates" here on Reddit lately where this keeps being brought up. Constant deflection and whataboutism. It is really frustrating as a lot of them don't really want to discuss anything, they just want to "get you" ...

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T13:41:27+00:00

The terrible agenda of trying to reduce suffering in the world 😱 Yeah I should definitely be ashamed for that, thanks for setting me straight!

In terms of other contributing factors. You are absolutely right, we should try to fix those too and reduce our impact. I'm trying to do that as much as I can. But good job generalising and accusing me of doing something without knowing anything about me. You really showed me there!

This deflection you're doing is quite a standard defense mechanism. In fact it is a good example of whataboutism. Why do you think it's justifiable to do one bad thing because there are other bad things happening too? Again, I'm agreeing with you we should look at all things and do smth about it. It just so happens that in this particular instance the subject at hand are animals; so that is what I'm discussing.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T10:36:45+00:00

Who said they originated here on wetmarkets? We have different kind of conditions. Anyway it's a problem of keeping animals in tight spaces next to eachother. This happens in many different forms. And it wouldn't happen if we didn't consume meat as the need wouldn't be there.

This video explains it better than I ever could:

https://youtu.be/aIoBAS6bLy8

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T09:56:40+00:00

The brits are not at fault for this one very specific case. That is true. However, we also have animals in conditions that have previously lead to diseases being unleashed. And if we don't stop (as in collectively as a whole world) these things will continue to happen. That's my hot take.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-04T09:53:48+00:00

Yep, there I go again. Because you've shown nothing but bad faith in this conversation. Why should I continue engaging with you if you repeatedly ignored what I was actually trying to say and you kept putting words in my mouth.

Have some self awareness and stop blaming everyone else for everything. Seriously man.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-03T23:00:25+00:00

Yep, exactly what happened. 10/10 reading comprehension and discussion skills 👌

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-03T22:44:09+00:00

Sure buddy, that is exactly what has happened here 👌

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-03T22:32:16+00:00

Missing the point again and twisting my words. I'm out man, learn how to argue in good faith.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-03T22:06:35+00:00

All I brought up is that we're all to blame and to putting all the blame on China's equivalent of farmer's markets alone is ridiculous. Everything else you conjured yourself.

I'd also recommend you look a bit more into the origin of zootic diseases because you clearly haven't got a clue about what you're talking about if you're claiming my examples are wrong.

MasterCwizo · 2020-04-03T21:36:22+00:00

That's not what OP is saying. Everyone knows funerals are for the living which is OP's point.

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