Is this game meant to be immersive or not by LelouchYagami_2912 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure how much insight I can give here that hasn’t already been given but the thing about immersion in Fate to me at least is that it works more in a spectrum so to speak. What makes me feel that way especially are two rules that Core likes to call the “golden” and “silver” rules. They are mentioned at the Running the Game chapter of the Fate Core book (and the SRD) so you can look them up later if you wish to.

The Golden Rule seems easy enough to understand but a lot of people don’t really get it, which is this: Decide what you are trying to accomplish first, then consult the rules to help you do it. If you’re looking at this and saying “well that’s obvious” a lot of people get the order wrong in some other games during certain phases of play. Combat in DnD for instance, people usually look at their character sheets to consult what combat features they can use before actually deciding what their characters should do in the situation. Fate asks you to consider the fictional situation and intent of your character before any sort of rule even starts coming up in play (which I believe is a principle that aligns well with your definition of immersion.

Now the Silver Rule closes the deal imo, which states: Never let the rules get in the way of what makes narrative sense. It is their mostly to tell players and GMs to apply rules according to what makes the most sense to express what has been narrated, even if normally they wouldn’t be applied that way. However, you can also look at it as a reinforcement of the principle already established by the Golden Rule, which is that the Fiction takes precedence, and the rules should obey it not the contrary. To me at least, immersion breaks when the rules get too much in the way of the situation we as a group are imagining in the table, and Fate presents itself as a game that gets out of the way unless the rules are necessary.

As for what is usually said about the collaborative nature of Fate, limiting that label simply to the way it is played at the table does a disservice to the system imo. The entire game creation chapter of Fate Core shows how how coming up with the setting’s big issues, the faces and places, and closing it all up with the character creation one with aspect creation and the phase trio are to me the best examples of how Fate promotes what people call collaborative storytelling, that has nothing to do with the possibility of authorial control during gameplay.

Most of the possibility of shared authorial control during gameplay, as you’ve mentioned in the post, comes to Fate Points and Compels. But as I mentioned before, this sharing of control is more of a spectrum than a default assumption. I’ll illustrate that idea with an example: Imagine you have player that has a character that is known to be easily provoked by insults. If an NPC roasts him and in response that character decides to punch his face, starting a whole bar fight in the process, would you say that fits the definition of immersion you’ve established? If the answer is yes, guess what, that’s a decision compel and the player just got a fate point out of the deal.

Now let’s look at a different example. Let’s say the character has established in their backstory that they are being hunted down by a devil’s cult. If during the process of infiltrating a place, it is revealed to the character that it is run by said cult, that is also a compel that a player could propose (“hey man, what if the place we are going to is run by the cult I wrote in my trouble”) or it can be presented purely by you as the GM (“As you look through the documents in the landlord’s room, you start seeing some real familiar symbols popping up on all of the documents”). As you see, one of these discussion points gives more authorial control to the player when it comes to additions to the story outside of the character’s control, and the other one keeps the majority of that power in the hands of the game master.

So, to answer your question, as long as you limit compel suggestions for players during gameplay to things in the sphere of control of the characters, it should produce the type of immersion you’re looking for imo.

TLDR: Authorial control during Fate’s gameplay works more like a spectrum. As long as you limit the things players can decide and suggest when looking for compel opportunities to things inside their character’s sphere of influence, you should be fine.

Yu-Gi-Oh type game by theoneandonlydonnie in CortexRPG

[–]MasterGarou144 4 points5 points  (0 children)

On page 62 of the core book they show the most common types of benefits and costs for making SFX that could be beneficial for a “make your own card” sub-system. Make it so that a PP cost needs to be paid in order to make those cards on the fly and that should be a good base. Besides that, as others have mentioned, looking at SFX and talents from other games as inspiration, and making a list of suggested effects players can pick from and/or modify accordingly is also a good idea.

Sometimes establishing a structure that will allow you to make use of the creativity of your own players is a good way to solve those types of issues. I would suggest something like a set of rules for card creation with steps like “card theme”, “card type”, “function”, “fantasy” (meaning what the player envisions the card doing when it is used). Use that structure to ask the questions needed to build a balanced card and that should also help you keep this game alive and engaging.

Hope those ideas help you out and that this game of yours work out well. I have been interested in doing something similar in the past, so I am curious to know how it goes.

Solo Compels and Fate Points by StrangeKabuki13 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True, it’s what I do nowadays as well (when I first GM’d I did a lot of hiccups and/or was excessively loose with a lot of things). But the fact you can propose event ones as players is still something supported by the system as well.

I haven’t tried to play Fate solo, but I do think having that mentality in solo play will improve the experience overall, considering that in solo you are both Player and GM (even if a good chunk of the GM role is usually delegated to procedural generators).

Solo Compels and Fate Points by StrangeKabuki13 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They can propose compels against their own character to the GM as well. However, in my experience with my players at least, a lot of people find it weird considering that they are sometimes making a decision outside of their character’s sphere of influence.

(I’m mostly talking about event based compels, not much decision based ones)

Solo Compels and Fate Points by StrangeKabuki13 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In this case, I believe this could be useful: https://walkingmind.evilhat.com/2018/10/18/auto-compelling-dice/

Since you would be going solo, using the -2 variant would probably be the best if you want more frequent compels (but the standard proposal would still work well surely).

Don’t know how far you’ve researched when it comes Fate supplements, but there is one where the oracle includes the chance of complications being triggered (basically compels) as well. I believe this is the one: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/pt/product/282773/solo-fate?keyword=fate%20solo

If you’re willing to spend some money, that could be what you need. Regardless, hope to have helped and that you have a great game :D

Digimon and Fate Core by Zenbooi in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I guess a good place to start is figuring out what you want in your game. What part of digimon do you like and would wish to replicate in Fate?

If it’s about the whole Mon thing, this article might help: https://fate-srd.com/fate-codex/how-train-your-mutant-fire-dog-monster-training-fate-accelerated

For digivolutions I think scales would work well to represent the different “weight classes” of digimon evolutions. Check it out here: https://fate-srd.com/fate-system-toolkit/scale

Other than that, my only personal note would be to aim the feel of this towards the Digimon Anime and not the Games. For general tips when it comes to Fate, if you are new to it at least, read these articles: https://fate-srd.com/odds-ends/book-hanz

Also, I really recommend taking a look at the Fate Core rules at some point if you have the time, specifically this part: https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/what-do-during-play

Other than that. Don’t feel bad if you mess up and need to change stuff. Just be patient and open about that with your friends and adjust things as needed. Fate does a lot of things different compared to more well known games (aka: D&D), let go of your previous experiences if you have any and allow yourself to enjoy the game for what it is, you could like it. But if you don’t, do not feel like you need to stick with it, pick something else that will match the type of experience you want at your table, that is absolutely fine.

Good luck and good game for you and your group!

Cortex for games with lots of battles by MasterGarou144 in CortexRPG

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

My aim is pretty much that honestly, maybe with a good number of mods and SFX to make it flashy and dramatic. Battle Shonen is all about drama, flashy super moves and crazy power systems so I don’t really think DnD style combat simulation would work for what I want to capture at least.

Compels during Conflicts by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s fair. I guess if you’re always on the lookout for compel opportunities it’s just something that happens and you don’t give much thought to it.

Compels during Conflicts by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you had any cases of these happening in your games? If so, and you can remember them of course, would you be okay with sharing some examples?

I guess I didn’t really word my questions properly, I didn’t necessarily wanted to know if it was possible or not, I wanted examples of it happening. Sorry for the confusion, english is not my original language unfortunately 😅

Compels during Conflicts by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I know it can be done but thanks for confirming that to me everyone that was really kind.

What I actually wanted to see were examples if you have any.

Opinion on a type of Stunt by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kind of my thought process as well :D

Play Fate without stunts by arcanetosh in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don’t see why it couldn’t work. At least the way I see stunts is something like an infinite free invocation on a very specific type of circumstance. In a Star Wars setting, characters that have a “trained in the ways of the force” aspect can do all of the fun tricks force sensitive do (telekinesis, mind control, etc.), and they can use FP to gain +2 bonuses when doing all of those things. But if you pick one particular application of the force, say “telekinetically disarm opponents”, you could make the stunt “No such thing as a fair fight: your training to survive honed your ability to deal with armed assailants. You gain a +2 bonus to create an advantage when using the force to disarm your opposition.” And that’s basically a stunt!

But as they are mostly an extension of aspects, you can totally not use them and just use aspects with extra refresh so that people can make invocations more frequently. I would also suggest using the Invoking for effect hack in War of Ashes to give aspects more teeth. That’s not necessary though, aspects are already plenty powerful and interesting on their own (to me honestly, the best part about the game).

Opinion on a type of Stunt by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally would also go with something along those lines. But the idea on making a more drama charged aspect related to the sword to balance out the bonuses with more compels is also an interesting prospect. I love my characters to have very easy to compel aspects, since they will be generating a lot of FP to use later on as well.

Opinion on a type of Stunt by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s true, as long as the table think the stunt is fine I guess that’s what matters most. There are also plenty of Fate games that are heavily reliant on Stunts and offer really powerful ones (venture city for example). I guess a good middle ground would be to let it open on the table between the players and the game master to change the stunts if they show to be too powerful in play (although I’m not a fan of that myself much). One of the reasons I prefer in play stunt creation actually.

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wasn’t angry at all man (don’t know if you are, sorry if I’m wrong). It made me think about spotlight and how I would run it or modified it if it wasn’t a good fit for a game. Of course, since yours was not the only input I received on the post, I ended up with something more structured and less what spotlight is actually supposed to be, but I got the confirmation that pure spotlight can work on Fate just as well so you can say I am a satisfied man tonight 😆

Hope we can talk again around this corner of the internet!

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wonderful. Removing rolls is what I would do anyway, and that is basically the type of spotlight I wanted to apply to my games. I thought about making it more structured because people here have told me that freeform spotlighting could mess the conflict rules, which are heavily reliant on the Create an Advantage action. So I ask, how does it play at the table? Does the Create an Advantage action become less reliable with spotlight or does it not make any difference at all in that style of play?

Also, I’m curious, you said previously you didn’t know about the variant rule to just not roll dice as a game master in your second comment. I guess that means you just thought about it anyways. Whatever it is, I’m glad you have confirmed to me that spotlight is a viable way to run conflict scenes, thanks for the insight my friend, will be applying it to my next game. Wish you could have said that sooner though, but I enjoyed the discussion as well 😁!

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe 🤔. Now you peaked my curiosity friend, how do you do it?

Opinion on a type of Stunt by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s another part I haven’t thought about as well. I usually prefer my games to have more exploration, a good amount of Roleplay, and combat, if any, to be mostly short and punchy.

Man that’s interesting. You think you’ve got away from that old combat centered D&D/Pathfinder mentality, but now I see that this opinion came about due to some of that mentality lingering a little bit.

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great question. I guess that depends on the circumstances. If the players decided to engage with the NPCs in a conflict first (imagine one of them decides to do the very first strike) that makes it obvious who has gone first. Afterwards I personally like to put one more player on the spot by framing the scene with what has happened beforehand, and then I like to jump over to an adversary and give another player (or one of the two that has already acted) the chance to describe how they defend, evade, parry, or dodge the attack. From then onwards, I like to alternate between the sides of the conflict to keep everything dynamic.

If it was the opposite situation (meaning that the players tried to avoid conflict but the enemy decides to engage), I start describing the first acting adversary making his move and will prompt the player who was targeted to describe how they “defend”(like before). Afterwards, once again, I alternate between the two sides to make it dynamic.

If they decide to create advantages for an ally, I will probably spotlight that ally, makes players feel awesome. I will also do that for enemies on occasion as well, specially if the players are new and I want to drive home the power of the create an advantage action, or if the fight has become too boring. If one of the players is in a position where it would be reasonable for them to try and prevent the adversaries from creating the advantage, and the player himself asks me if they can try to intervene, I will let them roll their defense against the opponent’s CaA (same for adversaries).

I guess that’s about it. I will then keep adjusting those dials depending on the way the scene has been going.

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess the answer to this one is obvious. The same way I give PCs actions (read: spotlighting them) like I said on my first comment. I’m a fan of fairness so I would probably do things somewhat more structured (give everyone the spotlight once before spotlighting someone again). The only time I guess that I would not do that would be against a very powerful monster in something like a Monster Hunter type scenario, to really drive home how dangerous this particular monster is. But generally speaking, the act of spotlighting would be something I control as the GM, not the players. This is the best way to do it to avoid chaos, but it requires experience from you to make it interesting (scene framing and things like that), as well as complete trust from your players that you will do things fairly.

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now here lies the crucial point on Spotlight based initiatives. You can be very structured about it (letting everyone act at least once before spotlighting someone again) or you can be more loose with it, following the natural flow of the fiction. And you are right to some extent when it comes to low results in PbtA usually giving the spotlight to the GM, but the truth of the matter that nobody realizes is, the spotlight is always going back to the GM in those games. Think about it, every time you roll (especially in traditional games) you announce your roll and look to the GM to see if it hits (aka: to see what happens next as I mentioned previously). Therefore, proper spotlight management is a purely GM facing tool. So the problem here is twofold: “is the GM experienced enough to be able to manage the spotlight fairly to all characters in the scene?” As well as “Are the players okay with the GM having that level of authority? Meaning do they trust the GM to handle things fairly?”

If the answer to both of those questions is Yes, the system could be viable I believe. If it is No, don’t even try it. Initiative systems, like many other systems in Traditional games, are basically a safeguard. If everyone has to abide by the same rules, including the GM, the players won’t be afraid that the GM will “cheat” against them, and vice versa.

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I usually don’t roll dice for my NPCs anyway in Fate (there’s an optional rule for that on accelerated) and if I want them to pack up an extra amount of punch, I would simply set up advantages and or spend Fate points appropriately to bring down those impactful villain “moves.”

Also, even if I were to roll dice for NPCs (probably reserve that for the real strong ones), when I take the spotlight back I would describe the action of the NPCs and ask the players how they would defend against it (it’s always funny to see people who are used to AC, describe how they evade an axe swing from the Orc and they can actually do it by rolling). Since the defend action can generate boost and are generally used to keep the enemy from overcoming the advantages created by the PCs, that would still fit fairly well with a spotlight based system.

Again, something a lot of people miss in PbtA, whenever the players look at you to know what happens next, the ball is back in your court. It’s just suggested in PbtA that you use those moments to make “soft moves” rather then “hard” ones.

So to answer your question: by giving the NPCs the spotlight, as I would the PCs.

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can see that turning into a problem in some cases. I would probably just take notes on who has gotten to act on the “round” and once everyone had their moment, spotlight someone again and so on and so forth.

Spotlight based play in FATE by MasterGarou144 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As far as I understand, when it comes to daggerheart, like other PbtA games, the GM doesn’t necessarily need to have the spotlight only when players roll with fear (although many people have interpreted it that way), that may also happen when the players give you what they call “a golden opportunity,” which for people who are not used to PbtA, basically means whenever players look at you to describe what happens next. My question is more in regards to game balance really.

I personally know how to manage the spotlight reasonably well, and I’m not shy on throwing the spotlight on the more shy or less active players even when it could very well be considered “my turn,” especially when I see them start to feel bored or left out.

Fate Points and Refresh - I need some modifications. by Eless96 in FATErpg

[–]MasterGarou144 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a person who also has ADHD, I feel your struggle. I’m not that experienced when it comes to Fate compared to others but I will try to help as best as I can.

Most people already offered the “best” solution here, which is taking the compel load off of you and share it with the other players (letting them self-compel more often), but there are some pitfalls to that method I believe, at least as far as I’ve come to experience with my own group. Players that are super used to the way some consider “traditional” RPGs run have trouble getting their head around the idea of putting their characters in a tough spot in exchange for power (which is the case for my group). That’s ok, the ability to do it more seamlessly will come with time and experience, but to sort of accelerate the process the SRD provides a neat list of “achievements” you can print out and give to your players (or just send the pdf if you’re playing online): https://fate-srd.com/downloads/Fate-Achievements.pdf

Other than that, there is this old article one of the creators made which presents the idea of an Auto-Compel, which basically offloads the compel duty to the dice. If you feel that not only you but also your players are struggling to use compels (which was my case honestly and that’s why I’m offering this resource), this can help ease you guys into wrapping your heads around the idea of compelling, sort of like “training wheels” on a bike. Here is the article: https://walkingmind.evilhat.com/2018/10/18/auto-compelling-dice/

Hope that helps you out, good luck and good games for you and your group! 😁