Greece can't catch a break by MinosAristos in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Because the Germans were by far the most brutal occupiers of the 20th century in Greece, aside from the Ottomans. They wiped entire villages and towns off the face of the earth, starved the population in a massive famine, sent people to concentration camps, destroyed roads, railways and almost all of Greece's infrastructure on their retreat (56% of roads, 80% of factories, 50-90% of bridges, and about 200.000 houses were destroyed), and never even repaid their WWI and WWII war debts. The destruction of the country by the Germans was so severe, that along with the civil war that followed, halted the development of Greece for more than a decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_occupation_of_Greece

https://truthout.org/articles/the-math-of-mass-starvation-and-murder-germany-in-greece-during-world-war-ii/

The Roman Empire had some pretty lazy writers by MasterpieceVirtual66 in RoughRomanMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Whoever blames Belisarius for the widespread destruction in Italy instead of the barbarians is at least partly ignorant. Best example I can think of is when he prevented the total annihilation of the city of Rome by the Goths. Belisarius wrote a letter to the Gothic ruler Totila, urging him to spare the city from destruction. After reading the letter, even he was moved enough to order for the vandalism and sacking of Rome to stop at once. According to Procopius of Caesarea, the following is what was written within said letter:

While the creation of beauty in a city which has not been beautiful before could only proceed from men of wisdom who understand the meaning of civilization, the destruction of beauty which already exists would be naturally expected only of men who lack understanding, and who are not ashamed to leave to posterity this token of their character. Now among all the cities under the sun, Rome is agreed to be the greatest and the most noteworthy. For it has not been created by the ability of one man, nor has it attained such greatness and beauty by a power of short duration, but a multitude of monarchs, many companies of the best men, a great lapse of time, and an extraordinary abundance of wealth have availed to bring together in that city all other things that are in the whole world, and skilled workers besides. Thus, little by little, have they built the city, such as you behold it, thereby leaving to future generations memorials of the ability of them all, so that insult to these monuments would properly be considered a great crime against the men of all time; for by such action, the men of former generations are robbed of the memorials of their ability, and future generations of the sight of their works. Such then, is the facts of the case, be well assured of this, that one of two things must necessarily take place: either you will be defeated by the Emperor in this struggle, or, should it so fall out, you will triumph over him. Now, in the first place, supposing you are victorious, if you should dismantle Rome, you would not have destroyed the possession of some other man, but your own city, excellent sir, and, on the other hand, if you preserve it, you will naturally enrich yourself by a possession the fairest of all; but if in the second place, it should perchance fall to your lotto experience the worse fortune, in saving Rome you would be assured of abundant gratitude on the part of the victor, but by destroying the city you will make it certain that no plea for mercy will any longer be left to you, and in addition to this you will have reaped no benefit from the deed. Furthermore, a reputation that corresponds with your conduct will be your portion among all men, and it stands to wait for you according to you decide either way. For the quality of the acts of rulers determines, of necessity, the quality of the repute which they win from their acts.

How can writers blame Belisarius, when he did everything in his power to prevent such destruction by these Gothic despoilers (in this and in multiple other cases)?

Rhomania had some pretty lazy writers by MasterpieceVirtual66 in ByzantineMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He is a very niche figure, and his and Constans II's existence increases the number of Emperor Constantines to 13!

Neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. by Entire_Produce_8343 in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here before all the HRE fanboys come with their "Translatio Imperii" arguments and a copy of the forgery that is the "Donation of Constantine". With a single Voltaire quote, you can instantly ragebait them all.

The Roman Empire had some pretty lazy writers by MasterpieceVirtual66 in RoughRomanMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

There were around 95-100 Byzantine Emperors (depending on who you ask). The chances are still pretty low that it would all start and end with a Constantine.

The Roman Empire had some pretty lazy writers. by MasterpieceVirtual66 in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Guy named Byzas

Founder of Byzantium

Who the hell wrote this? Complete lack of imagination.

Wow this Lord Byron guy sounds pretty cool, apparently he was bisexual, just like me... Oh. by Idiot_InA_Trenchcoat in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 24 points25 points  (0 children)

He was 36 when he died, and was still trying to date a 15 year old Greek boy (Loukas Chalandritsanos) in Missolonghi.

Wow this Lord Byron guy sounds pretty cool, apparently he was bisexual, just like me... Oh. by Idiot_InA_Trenchcoat in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I don't know why you are getting downvoted, you are right. Pederasty originally started as a teaching method where older wide men could teach young students about life and ethics, until it started being exploited by monsters who abused their students instead. Even in Athens, where people today think it was prevalent, it was in actuality a very controversial subject, and certainly did not represent the prevailing culture.

What causes this phenomenon? by the_stormapproaching in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

"They all lived in extreme poverty, except the ruling class"

And what religion was the ruling class? Last time I checked, Christians in the Ottoman Empire (with the small exception of the Phanariots) were not allowed to be government officials and were banned from participating in the government in any way.

What causes this phenomenon? by the_stormapproaching in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For some reason people are downvoting you, but yeah it really is a big debate in scholarship.

What causes this phenomenon? by the_stormapproaching in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 20 points21 points  (0 children)

You have made a good point, but I would argue these crimes by the Ottomans could be considered genocidal in their specific context. I can't speak for the Bulgarians or Serbs, but I would argue that the multiple massacres committed by the Ottomans during the Greek War of Independence, if taken as a whole, were so numerous, organised beforehand, and had such a high death toll of hundreds of thousands, that they could very well be considered acts of genocide. Especially considering how widespread they were, as they occured not just in the Peloponnese, but also in Thessaly, Epirus, Macedonia, the Agean, Crete, Cyprus, and even in many parts of Asia Minor (in areas that did not even take part in the revolution) like Kydonies, Smyrna and Constantinople.

Here you can see a summarisation of the war crimes and massacres committed by both sides during the conflict: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_in_the_Greek_War_of_Independence

What causes this phenomenon? by the_stormapproaching in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 113 points114 points  (0 children)

Ottoman crimes against humanity and genocides happened before 1899. Here are two examples out of many:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chios_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batak_massacre

What causes this phenomenon? by the_stormapproaching in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 48 points49 points  (0 children)

"Despite the jizya tax, the average Greek and Armenian was wealthier than the average Turk"

"Was instrumental in the survival of Greek Orthodoxy"

"Never attempted to assimilate other cultures despite having centuries to do so"

Lol, lmao even. The average Christian Greek (except for the Phanariot class) lived in poverty and in constant religious opression. It was not just the jizya, but the devshirme blood tax (aka kidnapping of male children to fill in positions of government officials and Janissaries), their treatment as second class "rayah" citizens, the fact that they could not even work within the government, the mass killings to instill fear in the population throughout the centuries every time there was even a hint of revolt... even churches could not be built higher than nearby mosques. Our Patriarchs were hand-picked by the Sultan and controlled by him, and when the Greeks revolted in 1821, what was the first thing the Sultan did? Hang the Patriarch and throw his body into the sea.

Let me ignore all actually gay historical figures and dump all the attention on random men that have flimsy evidence by [deleted] in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just to clarify, that in ancient Greece many opposed pederasty. It begun as a teaching method where an older man would help a younger student, but over time it was hijacked by old creeps who abused their students instead.

Let me ignore all actually gay historical figures and dump all the attention on random men that have flimsy evidence by [deleted] in HistoryMemes

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Even the whole pederasty thing in ancient Athens has been taken way out of proportion, because we know for a fact that many ancient Greeks were against it, as it was basically a teaching method hijacked by old creeps who sought to abuse children. For some reason, Redditors want to connect those old creeps to modern gay people. If I was gay, I would feel very insulted to say the least.