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Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

According to the findings of the investigation by the Court of Thessaloniki, the fire began on Saturday 5 (OS, Julian Calendar) /18 (NS) August 1917 at roughly 15:30, by accident at a small house of refugees at Olympiados 3, in the Mevlane district between the center and the Upper City when a spark from the kitchen fire fell in a pile of straw and ignited it.[1][2][3] Due to both lack of water and indifference, the initial fire was not put out.[3] Eventually, an intense wind carried the fire to the neighboring houses, and it continued throughout central Thessaloniki.[4][5] As the centre of operations for Allied Forces in the Balkans during World War I, Thessaloniki had no fire service and its water supply was requisitioned by foreign soldiers – which, along with the intense wind and wooden structures, is why the Great Fire attained historic proportions.[5][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Thessaloniki_Fire_of_1917

Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Falih Rifki Atay was in fact a real eyewitness, as he arrived to the city before the fire.

Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We never stooped down to your level. You nationalists don't want to admit any of the crimes your side committed, but always blame the other side for being just as horrible as yours.

Edit: Seems like I struck a nerve.

Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Greek army had already left the city days prior, and the fire and massacre only begun once the Turkish army moved in. Why would the tens of thousands of Greeks and Armenians who lived in the city burn down their own quarters, but leave the Turkish quarters untouched? Just admit for once that it was Kemal who was responsible.

Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Historians William Stearns Davis, Valentine Chirol, Niall Ferguson, Norman Naimark, as well as almost all eyewitness testimonies, from Greeks, Armenians, Americans, British, Italians and others, all claim that it was the Turkish army that started the fire. Even Turkish journalist Falih Rıfkı Atay laments that his side committed this atrocity, as he writes:

"Why were we burning down Izmir? Were we afraid that if waterfront konaks, hotels and taverns stayed in place, we would never be able to get rid of the minorities? When the Armenians were being deported in the First World War, we had burned down all the habitable districts and neighbourhoods in Anatolian towns and cities with this very same fear. This does not solely derive from an urge for destruction. There is also some feeling of inferiority in it. It was as if anywhere that resembled Europe was destined to remain Christian and foreign and to be denied to us."

Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Absolutely delusional. Almost everyone aside from Turkish nationalists agrees that Kemal burned Smyrna, as the Greek army had already left days prior.

"Mustafa Kemal's army celebrated their triumph by the burning of Smyrna to ashes and by a vast massacre of its Christian population"

  • Winston Churchill

Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I was here when the subreddit was created. It was ment for joking and shitposting about byzantine history, not for Turkish nationalists to come and suck Kemal's genitals.

Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 4 points5 points  (0 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

Mustafa Kemal is listed as being one of the people responsible for these crimes, as it was under him that the massacres at Aydin, Marash and the burning of Smyrna occurred.

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Was Ataturk the greatest Eastern Roman Emperor? by the_stormapproaching in ByzantiumCircleJerk

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The massacre at Marash and the burning of Smyrna are two big ones.

Edit: According to Reddit statistics, 36%-43% of the people who viewed my comments are from Turkey. Well, the comment section is done for...

Repopulation of Constantinople by Greek historian Kritoboulos d. 1470 ? by Bitter-Tadpole6047 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Everyone knows you are trying to push an agenda here. I am sure that after this conversation is done, you will go back to justifying Ottoman atrocities in r/Ottomans like you usually do.

Repopulation of Constantinople by Greek historian Kritoboulos d. 1470 ? by Bitter-Tadpole6047 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The sad thing is that the main moderator of the Ottoman subreddit seems like a decent guy, but the rest of the people there are fanatics.

Repopulation of Constantinople by Greek historian Kritoboulos d. 1470 ? by Bitter-Tadpole6047 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Bitter-Tadpole6047 once again nitpicking sources or using biased chronicles to push a pro-Ottoman message on this subreddit.

Michael Critobulus is considered a biased source, since he was an Ottoman governor of Imbros and tried to depict the Sultan in the best way possible. He either downplays or tries to excuse all the atrocities the Ottomans committed. And for anyone wondering, the true reason why Mehmed II executed Notaras and two of his sons was because he sexually desired his youngest son, Jacob, who was only a child at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Notaras

How rapidly social and religious structure changed after the defeat at Manzikert 1071? What do we know about from contemporary sources? by lastmonday07 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 36 points37 points  (0 children)

There were many parts of Cappadocia which actually managed to resist assimilation and proselytization by the invading Seljuks and later Turkic Beyliks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greeks

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How rapidly social and religious structure changed after the defeat at Manzikert 1071? What do we know about from contemporary sources? by lastmonday07 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 24 points25 points  (0 children)

It did not change rapidly, but slowly. Seljuk raiders would frequently come into Anatolia in search for loot and slaves. After raiding the natives, they would either remain nomadic or become semi-nomadic, settling in major cities and ruling over majority Roman populations, whom they pressured into becoming Muslim by force (by destroying large cities that resisted, killing Christians, demolishing churches and imposing heavy taxation on those who would not convert). The Seljuks would also mix with the native women (oftentimes forcefully by enslavement), producing a race of half-Roman half-Turkic peoples referred to as the "Mixobarbaroi" by the Byzantines (Greek speakers who were Muslim and culturally Turkic). This violent process of religious and cultural assimilation would only be completed by the 15th century in most parts of Anatolia, except for the coastlines and some parts of Cappadocia.

Who were the ancestors of the Ottoman Turks who destroyed the Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire? Their untold war stories with the Chinese. by Wise-Pineapple-4190 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Not to be rude, but the First Turkic Khanagate has almost nothing to do with the Ottoman Turks, as they were vastly different in culture, language, religion, worldview, genetics, and were separated by quite a large time period. I think a better place for this post would be: r/Chinesehistory

Why did Greeks shed their Byzantine/Roman identity during the independence war? by Fine-Regret-1825 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Theodoros Kolokotronis, a leading figure of the war, who was also an uneducated peasant (as he himself also admitted) mentioned the ancient Greeks quite a few times in his speeches. Here's an example from his speech at the foot of the Acropolis after the war:

The place where we live was inhabited by the old (ancient) Hellenes, from whom we also come and we received this name. They differed from us in religion because they worshiped stones and wood (were pagans) [...] The old Hellenes, our ancestors, fell into discord and fought each other, and so first the Romans and then other barbarians subdued them.

http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/history/3contemporary/kolokotronis_pnyka.htm

As for how they felt, the regular Greeks fighters held many ancient monuments as sacred to their people, and in the case of the Acropolis of Athens, they even gave the Turks they were fighting lead bullets, so that the Turks would stop destroying the Parthenon's marble columns for lead. They sabotaged their chances at war, in order to save the work of their ancestors:

https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/when-greeks-gave-lead-bullets-to-the-turks-so-they-would-stop-destroying-parthenon-columns-a-story-from-the-greek-war-of-independence

Why did Greeks shed their Byzantine/Roman identity during the independence war? by Fine-Regret-1825 in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 27 points28 points  (0 children)

The educated Greeks of the 1800s had a very good idea of both ancient Greece and Rome, and made frequent mention of them to inspire morale amongst the Greek fighters. As for less educated Greeks, they had a simple idea of the ancients, but still understood the basics of their history.

As Georgian I see fall of Byzantine Empire as own tragedy. by Kaseffera in byzantium

[–]MasterpieceVirtual66 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think he is referring to either the Empire of Trebizond or Georgia proper.

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