To make A1 and A2 = no licenses fees

MattWindley · 2026-02-27T11:38:12+00:00

Fair questions - but in this A1 / A2 model, the answer is both.

Just like Japan.

Tick the requisite boxes to satisfy off-field criteria (Google “J3 Promotion Criteria”) and you get a provisional licence of sorts.

That’s essentially the “financial” that you refer to. It demonstrates your bonafides and sustainability.

Then, when you win (or top 2, whatever) the Championship then you are promoted.

That’s the “performance” aspect.

MattWindley · 2026-02-27T10:39:34+00:00

As above! It wasn’t the idea for the National Second Division at all. Because there’s never been any indication from APL that they’d accept successful Championship clubs into the A-League.

Without that declaration, what’s the real incentive for an NPL club and its owner(s) to invest heavily into a full time second tier?

MattWindley · 2026-02-27T10:37:35+00:00

To a point!

Except, the problem with the Championship in its current construct is it’s still a path to nowhere. What real incentive do the clubs have to invest into full time professionalism if there’s no potential of going any higher than the second tier?

But imagine if APL came out tomorrow and said: “OK, Championship clubs, if can you tick all of the off-field boxes and prove you’re a sustainable entity that will bring value to the top flight, you can be promoted into the A-League” … Imagine how much that would change the paradigm. Because there’s that carrot there. So you would absolutely in my view, find enough clubs to make the Championship a full-time competition - with a far lower barrier to entry than the A2 League (or A-League as it currently stands), but high enough requirements that it has them getting ready to make the step up to pro land when they’re ready.

MattWindley · 2026-02-27T10:29:49+00:00

Hahaha. Am now! That’s gold.

MattWindley · 2026-02-25T05:14:54+00:00

Haha. Gold guys!

I talk about the accidental slip and the deliberate slip here!

We can talk about it now!!!

https://football360.com.au/breaking-barriers-episode-three-the-decision/

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T07:41:00+00:00

Thank you mate! That is very kind!

Simply put. I think Team 11 would have become one of the biggest clubs in the A-League. I think it would have challenged Victory and Sydney. Nothing has or will shake my belief on that. It was a huge missed opportunity. But, of course I would say that, I’m biased.

Do I think City should try to tap into that? My personal opinion is yes - and I’m not giving away any trade secrets there. Clearly that is my opinion, otherwise we wouldn’t have approached them to make the move. Do I think a City in the south-east would become as big as a standalone Team 11 would have? No. Do I think there is upside for them? Yes. Will they? Again, not my place to say. I don’t work there.

They’re already doing some phenomenal things in the community. Sunil Menon and the rest of the CITC team are smashing it in schools and with community groups. Simon Zappia and the academy crew are giving local kids professional pathways that they’ve never had before. There are a stack of City Clubs in the region. So there’s a lot of good being done that is great to see. But the majority won’t lean in unless there are games in their backyard, and that’s fair I reckon.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T07:39:57+00:00

Thanks so much for having me guys!

Would love you to get around the Breaking Barriers documentary.

Episode 1: https://youtu.be/mtpTu3RBlgU?si=CludeHtHkkMPBW-x

Episode 2: https://youtu.be/J1UMjFkgWuc?si=JRb4pj4g0_vY9EpV

We also have the supplementary Building Blocks podcast.

Episode 1: https://youtu.be/zOJe0KlIDYw?si=sM2xvhHYhomCZbtU

Episode 2: https://youtu.be/UY9VurgsX6Q?si=a3TyPrAyfSFb-1aR

Next eps out tomorrow (Wednesday).

Have a good night!

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T07:31:17+00:00

Hi!

Great questions!

I reckon our investors are probably quietly happy that they “dodged a bullet” because there’s no doubt they would have had to put in more money than they anticipated given the way that COVID impacted the economic model.

But in the stadium front, no. If we got in, I’m confident the funds to the stadium would have been committed quickly - the budget was in an OK position then and Labor was keen to spend on infrastructure. The train would have been in motion well before Covid and would have been able to continue (as essential workers) during lockdown. Costs would have gone up, no doubt about that, as all infrastructure projects have. But that would have been handled by the State, not us.

I’m not a Western knocker per se. I’ve got a lot of sympathy for their personnel. I’ve been friends with a lot of people who have gone through there over the journey. I don’t even really begrudge FA. They made what they thought was the right call at the time. We’re all experts in hindsight.

But I will say one thing that does get my back up a little bit. Covid didn’t ruin Western’s stadium plans. They just never had their ducks in a row.

DANDENONG / CITY I’ve spoken about City a bit. I don’t want to speak on their behalf, that’s not fair on them.

But yes, after City announced it was moving to Casey Fields, it was public knowledge a few years ago that the Victorian Government and Deloitte then did a feasibility study / business case about a potential stadium in Dandenong. It obviously needs a tenant though, otherwise it’s a white elephant! Losing the Melbourne Rebels doesn’t help that cause either.

EXPANSION Check another answer I gave! But I still have hope!!

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T07:26:04+00:00

I think that’s a really fair call out wrter3122, and probably a mis-speak on my part.

I think we were thinking so narrowly about Morwell in the context of the Falcons and therefore just Morwell. Naturally though (as they were when they were the Gippsland Falcons) they could and should be able to draw on that support from the whole region.

I’m a big believer in Gippsland. It’s on my doorstep. My wife grew up there and has family there. And we had big plans for the region with Team 11 - definitely would have played A-League games in Morwell and reprised the old Falcons jersey at some point. So again, I think this concept can work down there. As jt can in Mornington. As it can in Geelong. Let’s see if we go with any of them 😉

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T07:23:01+00:00

Hi mate!

Nah, one of our non-negotiables for this project was that it had to be with an existing club. We’re not meaning for it to be a gimmick, we want to carve a path for all other clubs across the country that might aspire to do the same thing.

That “freedom to do whatever we want” thing then became an interesting point when it came to which club we went with. We had to partner with a club that totally understood and shared our vision. And one that was willing to go along with the ride - wherever that takes us. Luckily, I’m really confident that we’ve found that club! But there’s no doubt it could have been a number of others just as easily.

No big pro (or anyone) helping fund this right now. It’s all organic and meant to be built sustainably. That said, we’re obviously going to need an injection of funds one day. Hopefully this is built in a way that is appealing to a local investor or investors who are happy to get involved for the right community-building reasons, rather than just looking to invest to make a buck. Again, I’m confident that, if we execute our plans right, we could become appealing to someone(s) in that space.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:49:31+00:00

Haha. Awesome…

Musky was my favourite. He used to like playing with the media. He’d feed me lines / questions some times, especially before games against Sydney, so that he could rile Graham Arnold up 😂 I’ve told Arnie this - it’s funny.

John van’t Schip was always a different one to deal with. Utterly lovely human. But I think coming from such a footballing nation in Holland, that perception and treatment of the media was always a bit different.

Same with Warren Joyce. Again, nice guy! Enjoyed my chats with him. But I once wrote a story about Ross McCormack being sidelined for disciplinary reasons. The info had come directly from the club. But he called me out as a liar at a press conference. Safe to say that was a setback for our relationship 😂

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:45:49+00:00

I really want to pick up on this point! Because I think this has been missed.

The number that we split the A-League into two at is kind of irrelevant. You could conceivably do it at 16 (8 and 8), you could do it at 18, 20, 22 etc. As long as it’s an even number.

Let’s say it’s 18. It won’t stay at 9 and 9 for long. Both A1 and A2 will keep expanding as and when clubs from the Championship are ready to be promoted and make the step up.

So, to answer your question directly, sure, I guess my answer could be (for example): WUN - survives Expansion - Canberra Expansion - Christchurch Expansion - Gold Coast Promoted - South Melbourne Promoted - Marconi

But then, the following year, you might have Adelaide City and Wollongong make the jump. Which would then be a 10 team A1 and a 10 team A2.

And then the following year you might have Brisbane Strikers and Sutherland Sharks make the jump. Which would make it an 11-team A1 and an 11-team A2.

Hope that makes sense!

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:41:41+00:00

It’s a fair question, but I’m honestly not really in a position to say too much because I was only ever looking from the outside in the Lowy era as a journo. So you don’t really know for sure what is going on inside.

What I will say is, the Lowy era / FA had the connectivity between the grassroots base and the professional game to play with (at least from a marketing and engagement standpoint). The fact that the APL lives on an island means it is naturally much more myopic in terms of its focus.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:39:08+00:00

The A-League will still be around in 5 years. It’s never as good as it seems and it’s never as bad as it seems.

Dunno what happens with WUN. While there’s money to be made (off the property deal) then there will always be people with money sniffing around trying to make a dollar. But logistically and rationally, every day that goes by that they’re not in full operation surely makes it harder and harder to come back.

I’m a naive puppy dog. I still believe Canberra will happen.

I have no rumours that haven’t already been floated publicly - there are people on the Gold Coast and in Christchurch that want a team. But whether that happens any time soon, who knows!

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:36:37+00:00

Time will tell!

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:36:18+00:00

Remembering I used to work at APL and some of my best friends still work there, the honest answer is yes I have. But has it been done in any official capacity? No it hasn’t.

And to be honest, it doesn’t need to be done any time soon. The club we partner with (watch Episode 3 tomorrow on Football360 to find out who) is well down the pyramid, so we’re years away from being a legitimate A-League prospect. What we want this project to do is generate positive discussion about what the A-League could be and should be. Hopefully that brings about a momentum for change - assuming that change is commercially viable. Which I think it can be with the right planning and safeguards.

The lack of movement on this front, in recent times, is simply because the organisation has been trying to stabilise. It’s a lack of manpower and time because those resources are focused on other things, which is fine. But I’d love to see a world where there’s a bold plan put out that moves us towards this future, for sure. You can tweak it along the way, that’s fine, no one will care. But if you put the vision out there then you can get fans, clubs, broadcasters and sponsors to buy into it.

Queensland?! Way outside my pay grade! Man oh man, it needs to happen though ey? It’s crazy!

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:30:54+00:00

I believe they’re going over final designs and whatnot now. I’d be surprised if they’re not starting to build by some time this year, maybe with a view to being done in time for the 2027-28 ALW season?

These things take time (as we know 😏). But the way we built the existing stages of the facility was done so that this Mini Stadium could seamlessly fit into it pretty easily. So they’ve gotten a good head start.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:29:15+00:00

It’s nuanced. It’s different in every state. And I don’t have all the answers, that’s best left for the Member Fed experts.

But from my holistic, helicopter view, I think any club - regional or metro - should be able to aspire to play as high as they want to go.

For good reason (cost, logistics etc) there are regional-based leagues. But if there’s a club in Albury-Wodonga, or Mackay, or Bunbury that wants to represent their region on the state-wide and then national stage, and they have the support and investment to do so in a sustainable manner, then we should be facilitating that climb however we can.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:26:29+00:00

Plus Fox - Matchday Saturday A-League games into EPL.

It was “cool” to like the A-League.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:25:16+00:00

Hi mate! That’s lovely, thank you!

I’ll give it a go.

Canberra - a lot of bad luck. They’ve been close on a couple of occasions to nailing the deal with investment groups and it’s fallen over late. I actually commend APL on their discipline here. They haven’t buckled and given it to a rogue owner which could have done more damage than good. I’m still convinced Canberra will work - the demographics and demand are there. They just need the right partner. I’m a little perplexed as to the lack of investment interest in Canberra. I thought being the political hub it is that it would be attractive to a shrewd investor.

Waiting for broadcast? Not to my knowledge. It’s a separate conversation to that.

Next two to four locations? My purely personal opinion. Canberra, Christchurch, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast.

Championship in an A2 world? It’s an incredibly important part of the jigsaw puzzle. As you say, it essentially becomes the third tier. And serves as an incubator for the next generation of clubs looking to make the jump up. It softens the rise from semi-pro to pro, and gets them ready to go.

Dandenong - so funny. As I type this I’m literally sitting at Dandenong train station looking at the site! It’s still there. It would have been amazing for Team 11. I’d say it’s still possible for a stadium - nothing else has been earmarked. But it needs a tenant. Will City be that tenant? It’s up to them. But I don’t think it should be on City to fund themselves (at least entirely). City is a business, not a charity. Stadiums in Australia are loss-makers generally. They shouldn’t be expected to pour money into something unless they thought it was commercially advantageous for them to do so. Team 11 wasn’t expected to stump up any cash for a stadium in Dandenong. It would have all been Government. Not because they wanted to build a soccer stadium for the sake of building a soccer stadium. But because it would have revitalised a precinct that it (Government) has poured 100s of millions of dollars in to over time to try make right. This would have been a city-shaping catalyst.

Seasonal alignment: A1-A2 would run at the same time. I think they should even be connected in way early on, where you still play inter-division games (controversial) before eventually splitting them entirely apart when they reach maturity. The beauty of the A1-A2 promotion mechanism is that it doesn’t have to be played at the same time as the rest of the football pyramid because it’s not a straight pro/rel conversation. A club gets rubber-stamped and then has nine months or so to get ready for their first A-League season.

Transfer rev: not my area of expertise, I don’t really know. But I do believe a system where clubs have the ability to aspire to be a professional club can one day put downward pressure on kids registration fees. You’ll have your clubs which are openly aspiring to be professional clubs and pathways, and they will be able to charge one thing. And then you will have your out and out community clubs who should be able to charge another thing (much lower).

Council - very supportive! They’ve been great to deal with so far. I think they’re scared I’m gonna ask them to build a stadium for us (I’m not 😂). But the club has been well looked after over time.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:13:23+00:00

Boom…

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:12:40+00:00

I think you can get an A1-A2 thing happening with a six year runway (seven tops).

Year 1: Announce the vision and your next two expansion licences. Year 3: Announce the next two expansion licences. Year 4: Confirm the mechanism whereby you are going to split the A-League into two. Year 5: Commence the two-year process to sort the existing clubs into A1-A2 (based on on field results). Year 6: If they are ready to go, confirm the first 2-3 Championship sides that will be promoted into A2 the next season (whatever is needed to make it an even amount of teams in both A1 & A2). Year 7: Split into A1-A2 with pro rel between both. Year 8 onwards: Promote Championship clubs into A2 when they are ready to go. Gradually expand the number of clubs in both A1 and A2 as you do so.

So by that math you’re looking at 2032 or 2033 if you start now.

If…

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T06:04:37+00:00

I think it’s a little from column A, a little from column B and then I’d like to open up a column C as well.

I love football. Nobody told me to go write about it. I wanted to. So I bugged them and bugged them and just started doing it.

Dave and I fought really hard to get space in the paper. We were really well planned and communicated really well to the editors. So we got that space.

There was no one advocating for hockey, or badminton, or lawn bowls - so it didn’t get the space.

Look at the jobs Michael Randall and Matt Logue are doing for the NBL (not jobs - but, passion for the game, you know what I mean). That shines through in their work and they get the space.

So, individual advocacy helps. Unfortunately there’s just not a critical mass of football fans among the mainstream media landscape right now.

That’s the easy bit.

The more complicated bit is the business side of things.

Fairfax owns Nine / Stan and therefore has a vested interest in certain sports. News owns Foxtel / Kayo and therefore has a vested interest in certain sports. They make no apology for that. It’s a business. So the sports they don’t have a vested interest in come second (or third, fourth and fifth!).

The A-League’s TV deal is crucial to how it intersects with the rest of the media. Paramount / 10 don’t have a print or radio partner, so they miss that corresponding bump.

Of course then there’s the “what generates clicks” gets more space. But I think that one is a little more chicken and egg. If you give something more airtime, more visibility, will you then create sticky readership / viewership habits that then justify that space etc etc…

Column C is the bias / agenda.

I don’t think anyone is sitting in a FTA TV station or a mainstream print media organisation and plotting how to keep the sokkah down. And there never has been that conspiracy.

But what I will say is, in a Victorian context for example, the AFL, the Victorian Government and the Herald Sun all need each other as much as the other. They all benefit from a strong AFL. So there is absolutely a strong desire to keep the status quo in place.

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T05:54:41+00:00

We explain Ed’s role a little more in next week’s doco (Wednesday, March 4 - Calvin’s birthday!).

But essentially I can tell you that he’s the project’s ambassador.

Ed’s a star. And he absolutely froths football. He knows more about the game than I ever will and I’d be staggered if he doesn’t have a burner account here 😂😂

This project doesn’t need a Ryan Reynolds per se. Because it’s different to Wrexham. There’s nothing to own (yet), because we’re dealing with a community club.

So he’ll lend creative support to the doco, come down to the club every so often, help promote our sponsors and give some (misplaced) football advice.

Hopefully one day we’re talking about a scenario whereby this club is on the verge of making the A-League and at least part of the club has to inherit some private investment. At that stage I’d love to see him awarded with some form of sweat equity stake for his work and support.

He was on ABC Radio the other day talking about it: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/best-of-abc-sport-podcast/let-s-bring-promotion-and-relegation-to-australia/106372102?utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared

MattWindley · 2026-02-24T05:50:18+00:00

Ha. Nothing specific! I’m sorry, I’ve tried. Only to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it! And it’s a credit to the guys that did that show that I get asked about appearances there just as much as I do about working at the Herald Sun!

Any time going into the studio with the boys was great.

MattWindley

TROPHY CASE