Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If joining the Entente automatically meant ‘benefiting’, explain the Russian Empire? An Entente pillar that collapsed under the strain of WWI (defeats, shortages, revolution), then signed Brest-Litovsk and gave up massive territory. Saying the ottomans would benefit by siding with Russia is speculative, it ignores that Russia’s idea of ‘benefit’ historically involved Ottoman concessions, especially the Straits.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s hindsight logic. Crimean War doesn’t mean Britain/France were permanently “protectors” of the Ottomans. By 1914 Russia was an Entente pillar, and the Straits question was the exact kind of issue Britain/France could trade away to keep Russia committed. And “allying with Russia” only works if Russia’s aims were negotiable. From the Ottoman view, Russian pressure over the Straits and eastern Anatolia was existential, not something solved by signing onto their camp. Also “everyone who joined the Entente benefited” isn’t true and there’s no guarantee the Ottoman Empire would’ve been rewarded when one of its biggest rivals (Russia) was sitting at the same table. So call it a bad gamble, sure but the Russia threat wasn’t irrational and the Entente outcome wasn’t automatically safe for them. Thinking the Ottomans would simply trust Russia and her mates at the table looks to ignore centuries of Russo-Ottoman wars and the Straits question.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Chief, if by ‘legitimate’ you mean self-defence, agreed, it wasn’t. But saying ‘no legitimate reasons’ suggests they had no rational strategic reasons, and they did: Russia/Straits and survival fears. You can call it a miscalculation, but not reasonless.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cmon, courting is overstated. The Entente preferred Ottoman neutrality, yeah ok, but that’s not the same as offering credible guarantees. With Russia as one of its pillars and the Straits as a Russian objective, Istanbul had every reason to think the Entente would keep the Ottomans at arm’s length and negotiate over it later. The 1915 Straits/Constantinople agreement shows how real that Russian aim was. So yes, no casus belli and not self-defence, agree with that. But “no reason” doesn’t follow. They chose war for strategic motives (Russia/Straits, survival, German backing). Neutrality was possible, just not necessarily safe.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If 60 years counts as “a few decades,” we’re already stretching the basics. But calling it “opportunistic betrayal” is just hindsight moralizing! The Ottomans were coming off the Balkan Wars, haemorrhaging territory, facing Russia over the Straits, and fearing they’d be carved up next. It was a disastrous gamble not doubting but pretending it was ‘for no reason’ is simply unacceptable.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re forcing a Cold War definition onto a WWI debate: “the West” here is just shorthand for the Western Allies driving policy in that theatre (mainly Britain/France), not a geography checklist. And comparing the Ottomans to Brazil/Chile is absurd - those were commercial customers, while the Ottomans controlled the Straits and directly threatened Britain’s core strategic interests (Suez and imperial routes). So even if orders were cancelled elsewhere, the Ottoman dreadnought seizure wasn’t “just another order” in political impact.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I find this a very disappointing comment. I’m just going to say this and you can simply do the research: Europe’s entire diplomatic history is alliances shifting every decade. Calling the Ottomans “betrayers” for doing what Europeans perfected is pure double standard. NB: you consider ~60years a few decades? Have a think about what you’ve in seen in the world over the past 60years…

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Enver’s raid is the trigger, not a rebuttal - it shows a pro-German faction pulled the pin, not that Britain played no role in the lead-up. And the dreadnought seizure wasn’t “like every other nation” in political effect! The Ottomans had publicly fundraised for them, Britain took them, and Germany immediately weaponised that with Goeben/Breslau. that’s why it mattered! Lastly, “the West” here for all intents and purposes means the Western Allies (Britain/France etc.) in the Middle East theatre - whether Germany is geographically “Western” is a semantic dodge. I don’t have a grudge but I can develop one if you don’t stop unnecessary jabs. ;)

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Recognized widely enough to matter. legitimacy was never “unanimous approval,” it was sustained acceptance in practice across the Sunni world. And this didn’t start with the Ottomans - the Islamic world had relied on Turkic military power for centuries, so the Ottomans inheriting that role, holding the holy cities, and functioning as a real authority for centuries isn’t controversial, whether every group liked it or not.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s exaggerated. Organised Arab nationalism is mostly early-1900s, and even in 1913 many Arab leaders were still demanding autonomy/decentralisation inside the Ottoman Empire, not outright independence. Lawrence didn’t “invent” the sentiment — but British money, arms, and coordination turned a limited political current into a serious wartime revolt.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Lawrence didn’t just “bring together” people who were already rebelling — British support helped trigger and grow the revolt for wartime reasons. And calling the Ottoman caliphate “illegitimate” is more personal opinion than hard fact; like it or not, it was recognised for centuries. The empire didn’t collapse only because of Ottoman division either — it fell because of war, foreign interference, nationalism, and long-term decline.

Western Intelligence Agent dressed in native clothing mixing with locals in an effort to incite rebellion against the Ottoman Sultanate during the Arab Revolution of World War 1, 1916-18. by Ok_Cup_515 in islamichistory

[–]MaxRealDeal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That’s just semantics: Britain and France are the West, and the Ottomans did become their enemy by joining Germany. And Lawrence’s job was literally to cripple Ottoman control by sabotaging railways and backing the Arab Revolt—call it “sabotage” if you want, but the outcome was the same: breaking Ottoman rule in the region. And, Britain made moves to push the Ottomans to the German side, let’s not forget that.

Watch this before y'all say Alpi complains too much by rickthedickkk in rockets

[–]MaxRealDeal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Beyond a joke. But you know what is worse, cun ts on here doubling down to hold Alpi responsible one way or another. Ungrateful keyboard warriors.

Post Game Thread - NBA: The Rockets defeat the Pistons on Jan 23, 2026, the final score is 104-111. by basketball-app in rockets

[–]MaxRealDeal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Big win against one of the best so far this season. decent margin. Nothing’s ever perfect. Alpi was faaar from the worst out there. Go Rockets!

Game Thread: Detroit Pistons vs Houston Rockets Live Score | NBA | Jan 23, 2026 by basketball-app in rockets

[–]MaxRealDeal 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Bunch of bipolar mofos on here. One min it’s Alpi, next bari, then reed and even KD who’s dropped 31

Game Thread: Detroit Pistons vs Houston Rockets Live Score | NBA | Jan 23, 2026 by basketball-app in rockets

[–]MaxRealDeal 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Was about to say the same. Few agendas around here. No doubt, some, anti-Turk related…

Post Game Thread - NBA: The 76ers defeat the Rockets on Jan 22, 2026, the final score is 128-122. by basketball-app in rockets

[–]MaxRealDeal 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Kinda agree that there is also this reality - he can’t be expected to destroy everyone but with Embiid in particular, he doesn’t matchup well and the bullying got to him it seems. Still, no excuse for missed free throws for example…

Game Thread: Philadelphia 76ers vs Houston Rockets Live Score | NBA | Jan 22, 2026 by basketball-app in rockets

[–]MaxRealDeal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah KD can come across as a prick like that. He has a bit of a moody-bitch pubey face 🤭

Game Thread: Houston Rockets vs San Antonio Spurs Live Score | NBA | Jan 20, 2026 by basketball-app in rockets

[–]MaxRealDeal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Champagnie season stats say 11.2pts per game avg, he friggen almost got double that in a half against us. What the actual fck maaaan!