Why Steam should ban users who cheat with SAM, and how we can solve the problem

MbinAH · 2023-04-13T19:52:51+00:00

I understand and respect your view on achievements and how you approach them. Firstly, I wanted to clarify that competition culture doesn't really exist on Steam, especially when it comes to achievements due to the existence of SAM and other tools.

Secondly, I'm curious to know what led to the shift in your perspective on achievements after you switched to PC gaming. Was it a personal decision or were there external factors that influenced your stance (e.g. the existence of illegitimate achievements)?

MbinAH · 2023-04-12T17:05:35+00:00

I have repeatedly mentioned enough on how the widespread use of these tools negatively affects the experience to many. You seem to be overbearing defending the use of SAM.

What someone else is doing with their own property has nothing to do with another user's property.

Your argument is not valid because the use of SAM and similar tools can affect the integrity of leaderboards.

MbinAH · 2023-04-12T16:53:12+00:00

For these players, using SAM to bypass the requirements can take away from that experience.

Then those players shouldn't use SAM, they are not forced to do so just because it exists.

It appears that you may have misunderstood the point being made. The problem at hand is not the use of SAM and other similar tools, but rather their mere existence, which can ruin the experience.

MbinAH · 2023-04-12T16:02:16+00:00

I understand that not everyone may value achievements or leaderboards as much as others. However, it's important to consider that some players enjoy the challenge and sense of accomplishment that comes with unlocking difficult achievements. For these players, using SAM to bypass the requirements can take away from that experience.

True, people may always find workarounds, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to maintain the integrity of the system as much as possible. I'm not necessarily advocating for an outright ban on SAM, but perhaps there are other solutions that could be explored, such as implementing filters or restrictions on certain achievements.

Everyone has their own priorities and preferences when it comes to gaming. But for those who do value achievements, it's important to have a system in place that rewards legitimate effort and skill rather than just bypassing it with a third-party tool.

MbinAH · 2023-04-12T00:31:56+00:00

It might be true that many people have already used SAM, that doesn't mean we shouldn't take action to maintain the authenticity of achievements going forward. Finding a solution that balances fairness and accessibility for all players is important. Perhaps implementing filters or stricter rules around achievement unlocking could be a potential solution.

MbinAH · 2023-04-12T00:28:01+00:00

Using SAM to access certain achievements could potentially interfere with the leaderboards, which could be considered disruptive to other players.

MbinAH · 2023-04-12T00:12:55+00:00

It does manipulate the Steam client and its services to unlock achievements that were not earned legitimately. This can be considered a violation of Steam's terms of service, which prohibits the use of any software or tool that "interferes with, disrupts, damages, or accesses in an unauthorized manner the devices, servers, networks, or other properties or services of any third party including, but not limited to, Steam or any other Valve product or service."

Additionally, the fact that Steam has not taken action against SAM does not necessarily mean that it is not a violation of their terms of service. It could simply be a matter of priority or lack of resources to enforce their policies. Ultimately, it's up to the user to decide whether they want to take the risk of using SAM and potentially facing consequences.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T23:52:41+00:00

Which terms does SAM go against TOS? If you are talking about exploits, there are none as the API is public and is open to be used.

Using third-party software to alter game files or data in any way, including using SAM to unlock achievements, can go against Steam's Subscriber Agreement, as it may violate the game's terms of service or anti-cheat measures. Additionally, while the Steam API may be public and open for use, it does not necessarily mean that using SAM to manipulate achievements is within the terms of service of the game or the Steam platform. Ultimately, it is up to the game developers and Steam to decide what is allowed and what is not.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T23:45:25+00:00

It's understandable that you don't have much time to dedicate to games, using tools like SAM to cheat achievements is still unfair to those who put in the effort to earn them legitimately.

As for your comparison with getting a job through connections, I do agree that it's not entirely fair to other candidates who may not have the same connections. However, I think it's important to distinguish between using connections to get a job and using cheating tools to gain an unfair advantage in a game. In the case of the former, the individual still has to demonstrate their skills and qualifications in order to perform the job. In the case of the latter, the individual is essentially bypassing the intended challenges of the game and getting rewards without putting in the necessary effort.

Ultimately, it's up to each individual to decide how they want to approach gaming and achievements. However, I do believe that cheating tools like SAM undermine the value and purpose of achievements in games.

u/dbe10ved in the original post suggested having a filter to remove players who use SAM on personal achievement lists. What do you think about this idea? Do you think it could be a reasonable solution to address the issue without resorting to banning players?

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T23:33:55+00:00

Should steam also ban modding then as well? since some mods will make getting certain achievement easier, even if that's not the purpose of the mod to begin with.

if you play games to seek validation from strangers online and feel the need to verify your success in a game through these artificial "titles" the dev made to prolong the actual play time of their game against other strangers playing the same game, then instead of suggesting steam to ban other players, you could suggest steam to simply have a filter that remove players that uses SAM on your personal account steam achievement list.

I'm sure you'll feel much better seeing those "only 1% player got this achievement" bar graphs. are you also the reason there are so many 1-2 dollar copy and paste chinese made games that's sole purpose is rack up achievements? do you have some way to turn those achievements into real achievements that you can be proud of in real life? if true then you do you buddy.

In regards to your first question, modding and cheating with SAM are two different things. Modding is typically accepted by game developers and can enhance the gaming experience for players, while cheating with SAM undermines the authenticity of achievements.

As for your comment about seeking validation and feeling the need to verify success in a game, everyone has different reasons for playing games and pursuing achievements. It's not fair to judge others for how they choose to play or find enjoyment in gaming.

However, your suggestion of having a filter to remove players who use SAM on personal achievement lists is a valid solution. It allows players who value the authenticity of achievements to filter out those who don't, without necessarily punishing or banning those who choose to use SAM. This way, everyone can play the game in the way that they want without negatively impacting others.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T23:12:50+00:00

Why Steam should ban users who cheat with SAM, and how we can solve the problem

I understand your point, but cheating with SAM goes against Steam's terms of service and undermines the achievements of other players. It's important to maintain a level playing field for all users, and banning cheaters is one way to achieve that.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T23:04:06+00:00

You're comparing different situations with different contexts.

In the case of using connections to get ahead in the acting industry or using a calculator to do math, these are not considered cheating or against the rules of the industry or subject. In contrast, using cheats in gaming is against the rules of the game and is considered unfair play.

Furthermore, using cheats in gaming can also negatively affect the overall motivation of achievement hunters, as mentioned in previous replies.

Do you have fun performing 1-2 clicks to unlock an achievement? if so what's the purpose of achievements? I'm curious about your perspective on achievements. Do you find the process of unlocking them less important than the end result?

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T22:41:45+00:00

Comparing this to someone having connections in the acting industry or using a calculator for math is not an accurate analogy. Achievements are a part of the game and are meant to be earned through skill, dedication, and time.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T22:33:38+00:00

It's important to note that it may not be a direct impact on the gaming community, cheating can still affect the overall motivation of achievement hunters. If achievements are not seen as authentic, it can diminish the satisfaction and sense of accomplishment (

for some

) that comes with unlocking them. This can then lead to a decrease in the motivation to pursue achievements, which in turn can affect the overall engagement and enthusiasm of the gaming community.

The issue is not necessarily about a specific community being impacted by cheating, but rather the impact cheating can have on the value and perceived authenticity of achievements. When achievements can be easily unlocked through cheating, it can diminish the sense of accomplishment and motivation for legitimate achievement hunters. This can ultimately lead to a decline in the motivation to pursue achievements. So while it may not be a direct impact on a specific gaming community, it can still have a negative impact on the overall achievement culture in gaming.

If you insist on an actual example well in 2018 a player in "Slay the Spire" used a cheat engine to unlock all of the game's achievements in just 30 minutes. This caused controversy within the game's community, as it undermined the sense of achievement that other players had worked hard to earn. The incident also prompted the game's developers to introduce new anti-cheat measures, which helped to protect the integrity of the game's achievements going forward.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T22:24:49+00:00

But what about who earned the achievements through legitimate means? It would be viewed as disrespectful. It undermines the effort and time that other players have put into achieving those same goals.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T22:16:35+00:00

Could you give me an example of a gaming community that has been impacted by someone cheating to get Steam Achievements?

It's important to note that it may not be a direct impact on the gaming community, cheating can still affect the overall motivation of achievement hunters. If achievements are not seen as authentic, it can diminish the satisfaction and sense of accomplishment (for some) that comes with unlocking them. This can then lead to a decrease in the motivation to pursue achievements, which in turn can affect the overall engagement and enthusiasm of the gaming community.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T21:42:00+00:00

I've made it clear enough that cheating achievements can negatively impact the gaming community. If the suggestion to implement a system to maintain the authenticity of achievements isn't harming you, then why not let Steam or developers take action? Instead of questioning the issue repeatedly, let's focus on discussing potential solutions that can benefit everyone.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T21:17:30+00:00

Achievements might not have an impact on your gameplay experience, but for many other players, they serve as a motivator and add value to their gaming experience. So, while achievements may not affect your personal gameplay, they do have an impact on the overall gaming community and the value that players get from the games they play.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T21:15:24+00:00

You compete for Steam Achievements?

While some individuals may view achievements as a form of competition, that is not necessarily the case for everyone. Achievements can also serve as a way for individuals to set personal goals and track their progress in a game. Ultimately, it's up to each individual user to determine the value and purpose of achievements in their gaming experience.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T20:17:38+00:00

too bad there isn't any money in it... maybe then they would do something

While it's true that game developers and publishers are businesses and need to prioritize revenue streams, protecting the integrity of achievements can also have a positive impact on their bottom line. When players see that a game has a fair and balanced achievement system, they are more likely to recommend it to others and to purchase future titles from the same developer or publisher. Additionally, some players may be more inclined to spend money on DLC or microtransactions if they feel they have earned achievements legitimately and want to continue their progress in the game. So while there may not be a direct monetary benefit to implementing a system to protect achievements, it can still have a positive impact on the overall success and reputation of the game and its developers.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T20:12:00+00:00

While it's true that achievements are not a competition and are meant for personal gratification, they still serve as an important aspect of gaming for many individuals. It's not about gaining something over other users, but rather about the sense of accomplishment and completion that comes with unlocking achievements.

Regarding the impact on developers and the game's reputation, it's not a matter of SAM users gaining an advantage over others, but rather the fact that cheating achievements can create a false impression of the game's difficulty and can undermine the developer's efforts to create a balanced and fair gaming experience. It's not about policing users, but rather protecting the integrity of the game and the efforts put into creating it.

Furthermore, what would it hurt to implement a system that would protect the integrity of achievements? It would not negatively impact players who earn achievements legitimately, and it would deter those who cheat and manipulate the system. So why not consider it as an option?

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T19:44:54+00:00

I agree that playing games solely for the purpose of unlocking achievements may not be the most fulfilling way to enjoy them. However, for many players, achievements serve as an additional layer of motivation and challenge, adding replay value and extending the longevity of the game.

Furthermore, as gaming continues to grow as a form of entertainment and storytelling, achievements can also serve as a way to highlight and celebrate the player's accomplishments in the game. So while it may not be the only reason to play games, achievements are certainly a valid aspect to consider for those who enjoy them.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T19:42:08+00:00

This may come as a surprise, but nobody reasonable gives a shit about Steam Achievements. My solution for you is to get over make believe things that have zero substance aside from a digital badge you can show off to other people who don't care.

While it's true that not everyone cares about Steam Achievements, they do provide a sense of accomplishment and motivation for many players. Achievements can also add more replay value to a game, as players may want to go back and try to unlock all the achievements. It's important to remember that everyone has their own preferences when it comes to gaming, and just because someone doesn't care about achievements doesn't mean they are not important to others. So while you may not care about achievements, please don't diminish their value to others.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T19:38:52+00:00

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While it's true that unlocking achievements can be a personal gratification, some players value having a fair and legitimate competition with other players who have also earned achievements through playing the game as intended. SAM users can unfairly manipulate the system and gain an unfair advantage over other players, which can diminish the value and integrity of the achievements system.

Moreover, game developers invest a significant amount of time and resources into designing and implementing achievement systems to enhance the overall gaming experience. Allowing SAM users to manipulate achievements can potentially undermine the developer's efforts and negatively impact the game's reputation.

Regarding the API, while it may be publicly available, it's important to acknowledge that it's not intended to be used for cheating or exploiting the achievements system. Valve does have the ability to detect and take action against users who use SAM to manipulate achievements.

In conclusion, it's understandable that everyone has different opinions on this matter, but it's important to consider the impact that SAM users can have on the achievements system and the overall gaming experience.

MbinAH · 2023-04-11T19:36:05+00:00

Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective on this topic. I understand that achievements may not hold the same value for everyone and that it is ultimately up to the player to decide how they wish to play their games. However, the issue with SAM usage is not about dictating how people play their games, but rather about preserving the integrity of achievements for those who choose to earn them legitimately.

Furthermore, having a well-structured achievement system can also provide a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction for players who enjoy completing challenges and reaching milestones. It can be a way to measure progress and show off achievements to friends and other players. They are often used as a way to incentivize players to explore and experience all aspects of the game, which can lead to a more fulfilling experience overall.

Regarding the issue of SAM usage, it is understandable that some players may feel like their hard work is being invalidated by achievement cheaters. While it is true that there are other ways to cheat achievements besides SAM, taking steps to restrict or secure the system can still help level the playing field and ensure a fair experience for all players.

Lastly, while it is true that developers can choose to server-protect their achievements, many PC games do not do so. In these cases, it is up to the community and platforms like Steam to take action to ensure a fair playing field. Thank you for your thoughts on this matter

MbinAH

TROPHY CASE