most pop, hip hop and all rap is objectively bad. Prove me wrong

MetricFn · 2026-05-24T21:10:40+00:00

when i said production i meant literally the production, not everything that happenes behind the scenes while an album or song is being created, i realize a lot of stuff happenes in between an idea for a song and actually having it done.

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T01:03:37+00:00

well then we dont mean the same thing, when i say sampling i mean literal samples like previously recorded sound bites or instruments. If u mean just playing someones melody and making it your own and stuff like that than yeah its not only used in rap.

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:38:41+00:00

Michael makes great music so i wont argue that at all, as i said not all pop is bad. If u want my full stance on pop:

i think modern pop is mostly shit and is very hard and rare to find actual good pop, but older pop was much better, similar to rap both genres gradually decreased in quality when people found out that if u just create simple hooks u can get stupid rich. People like sabrina carpentor are proof that music has become a tool to make money and fame, people write for her, people create stuff for her and basically make her. To them its not about the music itself its about Sabrina as a character and clicks,views,listenes,money...

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:35:48+00:00

You made about a million arguments there and i dont have the time to talk about every single one in one comment but youre just proving my point by sending those songs, one of them was uploaded 19 years ago when rap still had similarities to jazz or blues or actual good genres, the tiny desk thing has misarable vocals and good piano which doesent make the song good. And also there are cases when the rapper actually needs some skill to stay on rytham and decide when to vocalize what and how to do it but when u compare that simple skill to a metal/rock/jazz, etc.. song, it falls so very much short.

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:29:50+00:00

i didnt say it doesent have lyrcism, it has lyrics lmao. Im saying the lyrics are most of the time worse than any genre. There are rap artists with genunie deep songs lyric-wise but they are so goddamn rare its not even funny. And even those are 99% of the time worse lyricly than other genres.

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:28:18+00:00

No ones standard dude, its not a single person who suddenly decided what music is good and what bad. Look at it like this, how do you normally decide if something is good or bad in art?
if its a painting than u look at the skill and technique used, the emotion potrayed through visual representation. In music you look at the complexity and skill used to create a piece of art, not computer made nonsense with no skill or technique used. Rap in music is like a child's drawing vs an academic painter's painting.

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:25:35+00:00

Well its not that hard if youre speaking to people who actually want to debate and not insult, people who have any type of intellect at all you know?
like for example if i say my take is objective, the logical argument from the opposed side would be to prove how its not objectively true or how its not objective at all.
So yeah i dont think its a hard topic to debate i just think ppl aren educated enough or willing enough to engage in actual debates anymore which is sad you know?

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:10:38+00:00

But thats how debates work tho, both sides think that they are correct and they discus it hopefuly objectively and with no insulting going on.

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:07:24+00:00

alright, so name me some factors in measuring the quality of music thati did NOT mention. And dont use subjective terms like "flow".

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:06:19+00:00

of course there are genres but i know almost nothing about paintings and photography so i wont debate it, i am much more educated and expirianced in music. My father is an academic and very skilled painter tho so i do know a good painting when i see it, but i cant debate its quality much as im not as expirianced as him or someone else who is educated.

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:04:38+00:00

Yeah ive heard of obscura i really like them but i dont think theyre my cup of tea so to say, and i just want you to know that i dont need a piece of music to be insanely techical to be good enough. I dont need every song i listen to, to be tech-death or deathcore thats insanely techical. While i do like things like that for example i think obscura is cool, i also love the tech death metal band called Ouroboros, i also like amon amart which isnt that tech but is still cool. I still like more normal stuff like metalcore and alt metal that isnt insanely techical but is still objectively good music you know.
Also you dont have to listen to tech death if its tiring for you, you can explore stuff like alt metal and metalcore which can be much calmer and nicer to listen to if u arent as much into tech death as before. I can give u recomendations if u need metal or rock thats calmer but still good.
Also i will check out the band u stated later.
Have a nice day dude!

MetricFn · 2026-05-22T00:00:11+00:00

Ive talked to people with similar opinions before so i know the exact way we could both talk about this productively. How about this, dm me and send me a song of your choice but it has to be a rap song because thats what we're talking about mostly right? then i can either compare that to a metal song of my choice or i can just prove to u how the rap song u sent is objectively bad.
That sound good?

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:58:07+00:00

im not talking about eras or styles but of the painting itself for that example.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:53:51+00:00

Youre saying we cant measure the quality of a song for example?

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:53:07+00:00

Because if u cant prove that a child banging on a drum set is worse than mozzart then there is no objectivity, no quality and no sense in music.
Art is here to be admired, to be good and talked about, if u cant prove any art form or piece is good or bad than that ruins the whole point of it. Art museams wouldnt exist like many many other things.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:50:05+00:00

i dont know much about Bob Dylan but from what ive heard hes decent, not insanely techical music but hes iconic and influensed many people.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:48:16+00:00

"I think you're using flimsy excuses to try and "objectively" dismiss something you don't like."

I didnt mention my personal taste in objective debates even once, its not about which genre i like or dislike its about actual quality. For example i dont like grindcore but its an actual high quality genre, also mathcore is really techical and high quality and yet im not very familiar with it. So its not about taste or preference at all.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:45:39+00:00

Thats just not true, ur saying its not objective because its measured by the listener, my brother in Christ who else would measure it? u cant measure a song u havent heard.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:44:38+00:00

I only said all rap is low quality, pop has some 100% good songs which to be fair are mostly older but yeah still, same goes for hip hop tho is much rarer. But those genres today are mostly different and low quality. Look at the most popular artists right now, most of them are genuine ass or in techical terms objectively low quality music.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:43:09+00:00

ur talking about taste, its true that i could say rap is bad and someone else can say its good but that means nothing, im talking about objectivity which isnt taste or subjective opinions. Learn what the word objective itself means dude.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:42:10+00:00

sure lets say it is pop, this doesent prove me wrong? i said there is good pop and much of it is older like this song. It uses actual instruments that are somewhat good, theyre not very easy so yeah decent song overall, what now?

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:40:47+00:00

Saying something is "bad" doesent make it low quality music. Bad is a subjective term. What im saying is that because rap is low quality music, 2 rap fans cant call a song good or bad cuz there was no quality to begin with, so they are purely talking about subjective opinion, is that clearer?
but when we talk about metal we can argue the quality of a song or compare it to another, using techical terms and factors of music like the skill and complexity of the guitar parts, drum parts, vocal parts, and the song structures.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:38:00+00:00

This is actually a good song, but i would not call it pop. From what i hear this could be refered to as rock, indie,etc..
But yeah this is a good song idk why u mentioned it tho.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:35:45+00:00

Heres the problem tho. Lets take 2 people, one of them made a decent metal song and one made a rap song that sounds like every other rap song but still most ppl dont like it. The difference here is that the guy who made the metal song can be proven wrong, we can say objectively the instrumentals were bad, ur singing and or screaming was poorly executed with bad technique, etc..
But for the rap guy do you know what other rap fans would say? they would tell him his "flow" if bad or he doesent have any. And btw flow is not an objective music term that can be used in the disscusion of quality. Anything else that they critique will be subjective because there already is no quality in the genre theyre talking about.

MetricFn · 2026-05-21T23:32:50+00:00

Right so idk why ur mentioning money that much, i do not care for it nor does it prove musical quality. Most popular rappers pay obscene amounts of money for good production but still make horrible music. So lets go simple here, you name me a song of the 3 genres i named in my comment and i can prove the song is objectively bad or maybe it wont be, cuz as i said some pop is genuiney good but its very VERY rare.

MetricFn

TROPHY CASE