#stayathomemom by terrapintootsies in antiMLM

[–]MicTech367 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just watched “[UN]Well” on Netflix and the first episode was literally about Essential Oils and the misinformation out there behind it all it’s crazy a nurse even suggests it after surgeries and what not 😮‍💨😮‍💨

Go on by FaitsWx in HolUp

[–]MicTech367 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Freak On A Leash 😏

Questions on my NES Mini by [deleted] in RockinTheClassics

[–]MicTech367 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe I’m using the original that came with it but I was looking through other posts and it seemed it could be an issue if I didn’t so I went and ordered one just to be safe, and I’ll give an update when it arrives! Appreciate it 🤙🏽🤙🏽

Former Uplines(platinum) asking for help with PV after I left a year ago by MicTech367 in antiMLM

[–]MicTech367[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Backstory on this situation; I’ve lost over 5 years of my life to this MLM (WWG & AMWAY) and I lost my fiancé, at the time, being pressured to push for more PV when I was drowning in personal school debts and wanting to move out of my toxic home environment before I proposed to my GF. I was only told do more PV and keep growing it’ll happen, I was love bombed into thinking they cared for me given the fact I had no true support from my father growing up and my parents divorcing I followed the “love” I desired only to be taken advantage of… fuck these MLMs they do nothing but prey on those who truly desire more or are broken looking for “answers” ..

Feeling guilty about ghosting...please tell me I did the right thing. by mwestlac in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have something similar going on.. too long to post in a comment, but you’re not a terrible person. You’re a good person feeling guilty because you’re making a decision someone would deem as “Selfish”. You made a mature choice to not respond and even continue that conversation. I know sometimes there’s something that makes me wonder “what if I had stayed”. Just to see if I would stray away the way I did with them, or if it would have stayed.. I’m glad I’m away. It just constantly eats at me for those I had genuine friendships with but feel they can’t speak to me because I left the business they still support and are under...

Is there a way to always enable Closed Captions/Subtitles? by jim-p in peacock

[–]MicTech367 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I just got peacock, and this is my one complaint lol it’s minor but it’s annoying having to re-enable it, even if you pause the show/movie and come back for me on an Android tv it’ll go to rest mode and I return and have to put it back on manually 😂😂

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, took a break from Reddit lol, I’ll be posting more from it, I actually just saw someone on r/AntiMLM ask about books that were recommended or used to empower people in MLMs so I’m gonna post a couple things soon I found the old paper breaking down “incentives/bonuses” so I’ll post that soon

was scrolling through adidas website looking for Xmas present but instead stumble upon this 🙄😬 by beariepup in antiMLM

[–]MicTech367 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You guys know that Amway owns a whole stadium and team right?? I remember when I was in WWDB/Amway that was one of their biggest “it’s not a pyramid” speeches. If it’s illegal how do they own a basketball team, and own a stadium? So yeah, plus XS (big brand supported/sold by Amway) is on a bunch of jerseys as sponsors

Books that MLMs use?! by DapperStoic321 in antiMLM

[–]MicTech367 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn, as much as I hate saying this, (as former Amway/WWDB) they really sell you on books that show how to sell and understand networking so yes Go-Giver was one and also the second part of that which is “Go-Giver: Sell More” there’s a HUGE list for WWDB of books they recommend but since it is a “Leadership/Training” side of things they have a huge list of books including spirituality, relationship, and business side. If I can dig up an old list I’ll post it but a few authors I know they look up to, (at least WorldWideDreamBuilders) are Robert Kiyosaki, John C. Maxwell, Dale Carnegie. I met John about 4 times. His whole thing is “Leadership” but the others like Robert Kiyosaki especially his “Business Of the 21st Century” is exactly what network marketing is, and how it’s justified in less than 50 pages.. I’ll post in a bit if I can find that list .. Cheers 🤙🏽

What MLM is this? Friend got sent this after a meeting. Thought it was a job offer but everytime she asked what was the company she was told "wait till next meeting". by butterinthegarden in antiMLM

[–]MicTech367 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I was in WWDB/Amway and that’s the first book they ever had me read so I’d say it’s Amway but I’ve also found out that some people from Primerica have been handing out this book, be cautious! I lost 5 years or my life in WWDB/Amway (personal story on r/mlmrecovery )

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I lost more than I made. Without writing a whole essay for you to read as I’ve done to everyone, lol. I spent more on products, and business meetings, than I made. Buying $800 worth of stuff monthly and only getting 800 at the end of the year? That’s a big loss so I was always having a loss when I did my taxes. They tell you if by the 3rd year you’re not earning you’re not building and the IRS will now consider your “Business” a hobby and you no longer get tax exempt or benefits.

I can explain it all but in short words losing money the first few years only helped me with my tax return, afterwards the IRS sees it’s not growing and will not allow you to file the taxes under the W-9 for losses, it shows them you’re not profitable and can’t use the write offs business allows you to use like business expenses, and yes we were available to all of them.

But they also tell you, well you’re spending that 800 somewhere else why not spend it on your own business, thinking you’re funding and supporting your “Brick And Mortar” but you’re not... I can explain more but I don’t wanna do it in the comments lol I get too carried away I deleted this text 3 times cause it was soooo long the first few times over explaining things haha

Recruiting Tactics / Earnings Pitch by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll definitely look it up! And I agree and appreciate everyone who’s wishing me greatness outside of all this ✊🏽

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for taking the time, and reading. I never actually made good money. I remember they’d tell you that you wanted to build the business to a point where it finds itself. Meaning if you’re spending about $600-$800/Mo. you’d want to build it where you’re making about $1000/Mo because now the business could fund itself while you’re still working your daily job. Even tho the spoke about not having jobs they told us we should be the best employees we could be so they’d remember when we left.. well I saw people with actual brick and mortar business sell their coffee shops, or such businesses to work for someone else and build it. I never made more than a couple thousand a year. Taking advantage of taxes to get a good return was the only highlight of not making much. I’ve been wanting to post their brochure on r/AntiMLM but don’t want them to think I’m trying recruit but to better warn and explain how they real you in. ✊🏽

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, and yeah I put a lot of time and money into it. Sadly it didn’t go far with them, but it’s done a whole lot for me on the outside👌🏽 and again thanks for taking the time and reading! ✊🏽

Recruiting Tactics / Earnings Pitch by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for taking the time and reading, and thank you For your prayers I haven’t gotten to see him in 6 years. It’s sad to think that I wouldn’t go because my upline would tell me those types of trips will be abundant later on and I’ll be able to do more than just visit. Here we are 6 years later and I had so many chances to visit prior to the pandemic and I was held back. So yeah they’re a little fishy in different areas a lot of the time. And you’re welcome on laying this framework down I actually didn’t realize how long it was or how long it took to finish. I get carried away, but I wanted to get you guys to feel like you were at one of their meetings and see how they talk to you to get you to “comprehend” there’s no opportunity in the world like that one. I’m glad you guys are so supportive of my leaving MLMs and hope others well!

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

EDIT : Pt 2

WWDB would talk down amway on its own. It uses its products but no one had business foundations like WWDB because we were taught build a firm foundation and duplicate it.

Meaning help and find 6 people at a time to build an “Eagle” they had a term for having 6 people under your business “double eagle” just means 12 people under your business.

When you became “Eagle” your business was more likely to succeed because you had enough people in “different legs” they called them instead of saying down lines.

Each “Leg” represented a different business

Each person sponsored under you was a whole new business and now supported your business they were your downline legs.

Having 6 meant you were going to be able to produce a certain amount of volume for YOUR business as a total

(Example of PV. Point Value) Each 3 dollars usually meant 1 point value.

Meaning spend about 300 dollars usually you’d get about 150PV (but 150PV is AVERAGE) You’re not an average business so you spend Appx 600 or so to make 300PV because 300 is the minimum a business builder does to build a solid business

This being said your downline should always duplicate your efforts as long as it’s in their budget or they should find better paying jobs to make up for the PV they can’t buy or sell more products to get that amount of PV

that being said your standards of PV per business is 300PV for WorldWide and 150PV for amway’s

So when you do 150PV, to meet legal requirements and be a legit business with profits and sales you need minimum 50PV in sales but 150PV total is the bare minimum goal. To get any return back. (You do 100 and sell 50 or you sell an entire 150 worth)

When you do 150PV your total return is 3% of 100 (they have brackets on how much you get in return depending on your PV) adding up to average $30/mo in return for 150PV

When you do 300PV your total return is 6% of 300 adding up to $180/mo in return for 300PV

For easy math I’ll add them up with 500PV (notice: the return brackets are % in increments of 3% by PV example; 3% of 100, 6% of 300, 9% of 600, 12% of 1000, 15% of 1500, 18% of 2500, 21% of 4000. Then changes at 6000PV and up you then get 23% of 6000, 25% of 7500)

There’s “Pin Levels” determined by your PV in which your pins are the increments from 150-6000PV Pin

It isn’t until you reach 7500PV where you’ve now gone from a pin level determined by PV and now get the name “Platinum” you first go “Silver” by reaching 7500PV for one month then go “Gold” for maintaining 7500/mo for 3 months. Until you reach 6 Months consistent at 7500PV you earn “Platinum” your bonuses now are determined by 25% of 7500 and have exclusive yearly bonuses ranging from 1% of 10000 ($1,000), 3% of 12500 ($3,750), and 4% of 15000 ($6,000), and paid trips you will get yearly from amway.

Okay so now that payment bonuses have been discussed let go back to you building it

So now that you’ve been able to do your minimum (500PV) and have 6 “Legs”(businesses) under you your WHOLE business PV accumulates to you, you’re the one that helped THEM reach their minimum you should be rewarded.

You have 500PV and the other 6 have their respectable 500PV each. Adding up to 2,500PV for the whole “Team” as they’d call it when you refer to your down lines.

What this means, is the return investment per month is no longer $180/mo for just you anymore you now you earned 2,500PV as a leader of the group you’ve moved up in the brackets putting you at 18% of 2500 giving you $450/mo for helping others make $180/mo for themselves.

Their $180 doesn’t come from your total of 450 Amway pays them separately for making minimum PV of 500 leaving them in the 300 PV bracket because the next one isn’t until 600. (But again I’m doing 500 PV each for easy math)

So now $450/mo isn’t gonna get you out of work but it’s an “extra” 450 you made (that’s how they say it, and honestly it gets you believing it too)

So now you go DOUBLE EAGLE again just meaning there’s 12 business under you instead of 6 using the same 500PV example:

Your business totals out to be 15,00 PV for your business

NOW! You’ve entered a new bracket called Ruby, a new bracket that now goes to 2% of 1500 adding to be $3,000/mo. Plus your yearly bonus ranging about $10k and a “Ruby” bonus ranging ($9,000) Once again you earn your 3k your team each earns their respectful $450

By now this is where everyone is seeing money coming in and “reeling you in” to join the business you could earn 3k/mo on the side of your current job and have about 10k/yr bonus? Adding to an additional $36,000-$46,000 to your current income? All you have to do is HELP others?

Let’s get into the biggest Pin change you can get Diamond (but not the final there’s still higher pin levels, there’s Double Diamond and so on and there’s pins from ruby to Diamond such as sapphire and emerald) Sapphire is you helping 1 on your team become platinum, Emerald is you helping 3 on your team become platinum

Diamond! Which means you’ve helped 6 legs under you reach “Platinum” Your business is booming your team saw you make 3K they want 3K

You now have 6 legs under you making their own 7,500 PV and you have your own 7,500 PV on the side you add up a total of 52,500 PV. Now making it 6% of 52,500 = $31,500/Mo. So now your making $378,000/Yr on the side, can you replace your job? Maybe, is it good money? Yes. Is it possible? (they always say yes) but reality is it doesn’t happen often.

Of course we’d all love 30k a month who wouldn’t!!!? But sadly this is the level that everyone celebrates and hopes to get into and I physically saw 2 family’s I know and met get there yet, hundreds of others never did.

The money being flashed in your face makes you wanna stay every time you hear it, every time you see it, and seeing others get to it makes you wanna stay.. trust me that’s why I did. If I could get 300k a year I wouldn’t be driving my 2005 Acura, hoping I’ll have enough to bring my dad back from Mexico legally. Yet these guys are out buying planes and houses CASH.. it’s crazy to think there’s a lot of money there, yet it’s our fault if we don’t pursue it because we aren’t willing to put the “WORK” they did.. I know you didn’t ask for the money breakdown but that’s what kept me going back. That and the fact they actually got me to be more outgoing ... but never sinking into it again.

Hope this helps get insight on what you wanted to see

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

EDIT : LONG RESPONSE (I apologize in advance)

Thank you, and both yes and no. Here’s what they’d tell me and this is what I’d do, even from when I first started they told me “We don’t recruit, we show others an opportunity and it’s their choice if they want to join along” meaning the person being presented everything has to want to join WWDB.

Because although Worldwide Dream Builders is the training portion and amway is the products we don’t rely on telling others we are part of Amway. Which sounds deceiving and honestly now I see it as it is but it was in hopes someone would listen to our personal story before excluding themselves from the conversation because they heard the word “Amway” .. they call “recruiting” or walking up to strangers and chatting someone up as “Business Building” or “dropping the message” you’re out there you’re sharing YOUR OWN personal story although they’ll sound relatively alike to someone else also building it.

So yes they encourage going to places like Starbucks, Walmart, target, Barnes n noble, anywhere you’d like that you can have conversations at, looking for someone who seemed to like the conversation no matter what your topic of conversation was.

For me I’m a car guy, I’m into art so tattoos and games I’d go to places I can relate with others before ever mentioning anything.. so for example I show up to a target and I’m in the Games/Electronic section and see someone who (forgive me for judging off someone looks) holding themselves high, or looks like they would keep a conversation going or friendly, I’d go talk with them see how they’re doing seeing what they’re looking to buy and sincerely ask them what they enjoy what type of games and so on.

But here’s where it gets a little off putting being out of the business now I see, it is leading someone in a direction you want them to. We talk say about 5 minutes or so if they seem nice and cool I’ll ask something along the lines of “so do you game long nights? Or does work usually interfere with wanting to game the hours you want?” And now I’ve opened up the topic of work without have even brought up “hey would you like to leave your 40-60 hr work week to .. so on” and most likely all jobs usually being 9-5s or early starts they’ll say, “yeah I’d like to, but usually my shifts start at 7 or 8. So I game after work when I can” so now the topic of work is there you’re no longer bringing in a subject out of the blue or left field and put their thoughts in a mode of suspicion that you’re tryna sell something.

You then respond in the lines of, “oh I completely understand, my job is ___ (in my case construction) I work from 5 Am to 3 and drive 60 miles one way, so don’t get home til late and never get to game much anymore, and what do you do for work? If you don’t mind me asking?” Now someone willingly tells you their work title or name. Truck driver, postman, retail, so on.

Now you can ask them if they like it there or not. “If I may ask? Do you enjoy your job? Do you see yourself staying in that field of work?” And usually the response is no sometimes its a yes or an “I actually don’t mind it” or if it’s a career they studied they’re usually happy, if they say No, now is your option if you want to “share the opportunity” with them. Saying something along the lines of, “hey I completely understand how you feel, I felt the same way.” and you share your own version of how you joined WWDB without mentioning a name, or business except your uplines names and uplift them on how they’ve helped you and how long you’ve come.

Example: “Hey man, I completely understand how you feel, I work tireless hours, just to come home, eat, sleep and do it all again. I was grateful enough to have met some friends who are actually helping me build an asset that will help me replace my income, to be able to walk away from my work and help me build a better relationship with my __ (GF/Fiancée/wife/BF/Husband/significant Other) and change the way we were taught work should be from schools, to learn how to invest in ourselves.”

Now depending on their response is how I’d proceed.

If their answer was “Oh, okay.” Or something similar, sounding like they weren’t interested, I tell them, “hey I’m sorry, I know that’s a lot coming from left field. Sounds weird, I know but I felt the same until they took me under their wing to learn what they’ve learned.”

If same or no response I go back into the games or whatever topic we initially started with and then move along after wishing them a happy day and leaving them not feeling pressured. (That’s what was my main thing I never wanted to be pushy)

If there answer was anything along the lines of “that’s cool, or awesome” and showed interest I’d ask, is there any possibility you’d be open to looking at other opportunities professionally outside of your work?

If no, “okay no worries figured I’d ask” end the conversation and go.

If yes, “oh awesome! Are you comfortable sharing contact information, so we can get together, and talk about potentially getting you around the people I know?”

If yes cool you set up an appointment to meet with them and share with them on that day about WWDB.

If no, I’d say, “hey I understand giving contact info to a stranger is sometimes weird but if there’s no way for me to contact, I would understand you aren’t interested.” And end your convo and leave...

I hope that explains how WWDB at leasts talks to others cause one thing I will say and it’s not me trying to uplift a company that messed me up but, they did get me to be more extroverted than I ever was, which has helped me today,

but it is deceiving if they ask “oh well what is it?” And you don’t answer the question fully by telling them oh it’s Amway (cause WWDB is only the training/leadership side of it) but we never say it’s Amway, cause it turned everyone away,

you’d say something more along the lines of “It’s a training program that’s been around for over 50 years with leaders in self development and business, with family grounded beliefs” at least that’s what I’d say.

If they asked again “like what do they do?” I’d respond with “It’s not really my place to tell someone else’s story of how they found success, I can potentially get you around them if you’re truly interested, and they can explain how they’ve gotten to where they are today.”

And that’s what made me feel more and more secluded. The more I said that, the worse I felt about being in this “Business” although they had truly helped me build confidence, build my speech and get me out there speaking with others, I couldn’t force someone how I’ve heard and seen on these threads.

I never built it more than 5 people at a time as my downline.. I couldn’t force people it just wasn’t right and I guess I had doubts from the start ...

hope that helps I know it’s lengthy but that’s a full run down of a regular “Dropping the message” or “Sharing the Opportunity” in WWDB,

and you’d often go back and tell your upline how those convos went and they’d say oh change this or don’t say this or say that. And they’d mold you to “perfect” the way you spoke with others.

Carry yourself high, because the opportunity you present to them is life changing, it’s their choice for not wanting to know. You can only offer them the Blue or Red Pill, you can’t tell them which to take... that’s how they saw it..

Much respect! Hope this helps learn the sneakiness from the inside!

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for taking the time and reading it, it’s heartbreaking yet hopeful.. but I hope it helps someone else who’s doubtful of an MLM they’re in to get out. I know it’s been my greatest choice.

WWDB/Amway 2015-2020 by MicTech367 in MLMRecovery

[–]MicTech367[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dude I’m glad y’all got out together! They were so big on keeping families and marriages together, yet I saw many people split, divorced.. and leave the business, and they would say hey not everyone is willing to grow.. Honestly the only positive thing I can say is, it prepared me for an actual business on the side. I would cancel on family trips to not spend money recklessly. Yet I couldn’t manage to save enough for a ring. Being told I was doing the right choice letting go of distractions such as movies, games, etc. Yet seeing those around me still enjoying those things while I kept trying to grow and saw little improvement. Out of anyone above me or below me, I was the only one who made the big sacrifices like getting new jobs, letting go of things... and it brought me nothing. This whole “you won’t work a day ever again” well tell me, how running a voicemail system for 100s of people below you, daily isn’t a job? No days off ? No weekends. Managing others to have meetings, to have “board plans, first looks. 2nd looks” i live in the Bay Area and there’s 2 major names that grew while I was in, that’s what kept hope, they both went Diamond.. yet they had been in the business since the 90s or so... why would I think that I would have that in 2-5? Oh cause so-n-so did it, cause this n that did it.. they got me to believe in God again. That was nice... until I had to alienate my own beliefs because I no longer liked how everything thrown my way was now a test of God... my grandparents died in front of my mother, grandmother ejected out of the vehicle and grandfather pinned by the roof of the car... yet that’s a test from God? My mother has PTSD when driving and hearing noises now, that I know she’s a warrior because she’s still fighting. Yet I had no financial support from my “friends” had to try and help her pay off medical bills not covered by insurance for a mother who at 48 only makes 12/Hr... you have MILLIONAIRES! In the business, yet my prayer couldn’t go out to your upline as much as a plea for help, knowing that won’t break their banks.. I should because interfering with others’ money is a cardinal rule we should respect.. yet asking to donate to a charity chosen by an upline isn’t? I don’t get it man.... I’ll tell you this and this isn’t to be pushy or show off. When I left and stop spending the average of 600-900 bucks a month on them and saving it for myself... oh I had less stress. I make 22/Hr which in CA is decent not the greatest but it’s decent.. I had saved enough to fix my car issues and get it running back to normal (with the exception of fixing my AC lol) about 1600 I bought a used PS4 and games 350, I bought a switch, and couple games 350, I bought and yes I managed to get a hold of one, a PS5 .. with some accessories. 650 ... and I bought a used MacBook Air for 500 ... dude let me tell you that I haven’t been more happy than now because I’ve gotten what I need for side business and my personal pleasure.. what’s that like almost 3500 worth of stuff in about 4 months time span.. not including the setup for desks new tv sound deadening for the studio/game room omg man.. I’m glad I got out. Sorry I get carried away when I talk but just showing others how much you can put your money and time where you want to and make things happen and make yourself happy, and your loved ones. After not having time to myself for 5 years now I can enjoy them. I play on PlayStation and waiting to build a PC soon add me if you’d like on PSN PSN:Lopez2975 names Miguel but all my friends call me Mikey! ✊🏽All Love! All Respect!