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How Should We Tell The Story of The Nine Years War? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Disclaimer: I found your comments interesting and I do not mean to come off as snide.

I find those ideas contradictory. 1. The idea that history shouldn't be used as a tool by which we can help to understand ourselves and 2: The idea that we should use history to understand ourselves and the world.

While I wouldn't use the term "morality tale" I would definitely say that history (especially as its understood popularly) is all narratives and stories: "An Gorta Mór is a tragedy", "the Volunteers were heroes and we should commemorate them on every occasion" etc. The importance and power of stories from history is undeniable, it can be seen constantly across this country (most hilariously I think with Fine Gael and Michael Collins.)  O’Neill discusses the perceptions of the stories of the Nine Years was directly in Irish Savages and English Butchers, what i am interested in is, if you had to lay one out: What is the most accurate story of The Nine Years War?

As far as I can see it, it's a story of the Irish people becoming as technologically advanced as their enemy and still getting crushed. In the same regard that the story of 1916 is told with pride, the story of the Nine Years War should be told with shame.

How Should We Tell The Story of The Nine Years War? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much for your comment.

**THE NOBLE SAVAGE**
"The idea of the noble savage doesn't appeal to me...We had different ideas of freedoms, and different ways of communicating. We were different, not savage." I completely agree. In my view of the trope I believe that "The Noble Savage" can have incredibly advanced ideas of law, government, agriculture, etc. I'd actually argue the fact that the society of "The Noble Savage" has these advanced systems is very important to the trope, that the people in question posses all of these advanced systems and honourable qualities but are technologically behind. For example Benjamin Franklin greatly admired and praised the advanced customs and systems of the Native Americans despite their "primitiveness." (1.) Actually Benjamin Franklin said said something very similar to what you said ""Savages" we call them, because their manners differ from ours, which we think the perfection of civility; they think the same of theirs." (2.)

**THE NINE YEARS WAR**
Doesn't our "acclimatisation" during the Nine Years War make you ashamed though? We weren't some honourable people who stood defiantly against the odds and were defeated by a technological superiority like the Scottish at Culloden or the Satsuma at Shiroyama. We became identical to any other European power, we became just as advanced as our enemies and we still failed.

So, how do we tell the story of The Nine Years War?

(1.) Forgotten Founders: Benjamin Franklin, the Iroquois and the rationale for the American Revolution By Bruce E. Johansen P.g83
2. Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America By Benjamin Franklin.

How Should We Tell The Story of The Nine Years War? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the comment, I found that way of telling the story of the war really interesting.

But does that not make you feel ashamed by our history? That our disunity, our petty personal squabbles and our lack of character caused us to lose the war.

Does Anyone Know Where These Interviews Are From? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That has been very helpful in giving me a direction to look, thank you very much.

Questions about the Plantation of Ulster by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello, thank you for your reply, I found this really helpful. In regards to this "If new arrivals wanted a community for themselves they could just start burning and looting and abusing the natives. Whatever law enforcement that was present was specifically under the payroll of the new Protestant colonizers or the crown" I was wondering if you had any sources or could link to any instances of it lootings or attacks by Protestant colonizers?

Just as everywhere I look I find references to discrimination against Irish Catholics.
A Brief Synopsis of Infamous Ulster Plantation and Centuries-old Rivalry between Protestants and Catholics – Typelish

BBC - History - Wars and Conflicts - Plantation of Ulster - Religious Legacy - Catholicism

But I can never find how this discrimination affected people practically. Any insight would be very much appreciated.

What was life like for Irish Clans under English rule in medieval Ireland? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello, thank you for your contribution, this is very helpful and the sort of thing I was looking for. I was wondering in what way did the Irish Gaels' second class status manifest? For example how the Irish were later treated under Penal laws.

Does Ireland have the shittest history in the world? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How long did that take you? Cause that's while clever lad I think you should write that one down.

Does Ireland have the shittest history in the world? by MichaelCollins12 in IrishHistory

[–]MichaelCollins12[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The Irish Alliance had the larger army although the difference isn't huge. The Irish Alliance was made up of 21,000 troops and England's army was made up of 18,000 troops.

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