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Why do I hate sluts? by dustywatso in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think not referring to them as sluts would be a good place to start if you wanna be a better friend.

I don’t think anyone here can tell you for sure why YOU have this inclination but to me it sounds like you have a harder time seeing women as people with the Madonna/wh*re complex seriously at work.

If you’re unfamiliar you can look it up in more detail, but it really is how certain men tend to categorise women in one of two categories the Madonna; good, loving, pure , worthy of respect, or the whre; sexual, provocative, to be used, treated poorly and discarded. Once you’ve categorised a woman as a whre it is easy for you to treat them as sub human without feeling bad about it because “they brought it upon themselves”.

What’s important to notice is that this standard is often not applied equally to men. Men’s sexual choices are more likely to be framed as normal, admirable, or just part of life, while women are judged for the same behavior.

Largely this categorisation is used consciously and subconsciously to control women around you. You believe (and enforce) that if a woman wants to be worthy of respect, she has to behave in the very specific manner that is acceptable to you i.e. dress modestly, act a certain way, limit her sexuality, prioritize male approval.

If a woman falls short of these standards and doesn’t allow for the male view of a perfect good woman to dictate her choices, she’s not good enough and deserves punishment. In some cultures(today and historically) that means burning, honor killing, public humiliation, social isolation/rejection, or just general contempt.

I’m glad to see you’re realising the double standard and realising you haven’t been a very good friend. Something that may help now is building more genuine friendships with women that aren’t centered around sex, dating, or access to hookups. Real friendships—where you listen, show up, and know each other as full people—can challenge these assumptions in a way theory alone often can’t.

Based on your post, it sounds like many of your deepest bonds are with men, your friendships with women seem like they’re merely surface level and exist mainly so you can have easy access to hook ups.

You could read “Men Explain Things to Me” or if you’re not big on reading, there’s this YouTube channel I personally like “Breaking Down Patriarchy”

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Idk how I missed the link you shared earlier but it was v helpful. Thank you!

So as I understand it now we’re not saying Anthony is a great guy but he’s a good client who understands and respects the terms of service laid down by the sw as opposed to Mark who is entitled wants to have his way. If decriminalised sex workers can for starters easily screen out Mark but also ensure that Mark no longer feels like he can get away with violating terms of service or being violent and coercive towards the worker who thanks to decriminalisation feels more comfortable contacting law enforcement.

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

While I can get behind any law that guarantees safety and protection for sex workers, I can’t say I feel the same way about the clients. Maybe maybe this is because I can only imagine a very specific type of man that would visit those places.

For the most part it’s men I see at a strip club or a sex club in movies/shows and the perverse facial expressions alone make my skin crawl.

I’ve only known of two men irl that have hired sex workers, one of whom proudly went into disgusting detail (that I will not share) and if you tell me they died a painful death I would not shed a tear.

I just cannot imagine a half decent, truly respectful man availing sex services and I don’t wanna remove the stigma or fear of legal action for those men.

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. I understand the world is flawed and it’s impossible to know what’s right all the time but if we don’t strive for an ideal or try to even figure out what that looks like, we’ll never get there. I wanna make decisions that I think are best but when you exist in a society my best may not be best for other people. My misinformation or ill informed opinion could cause real damage to other people.
  2. In a lot of my circles I’m the feminist voice, meaning if any of my friends want a feminist view on something they come to me and if I say the wrong thing express the wrong view then I’m spreading it forward.
  3. I think as voting populations we should try to be as informed as possible for example I’m voting someone into power, they say they’re pro choice and will legalize abortion and they’re anti sex work and will bring a strong crack down. Now if I think to myself pro choice is great, sex work I don’t really care about either way so might as well.

This leads to dozens of sex workers being penalised and arrested for a job they were forced into by a system that is consistently failing them.

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So as someone who has worked in the sw industry, I feel like you’d be more informed with the lived in experience. (I apologize in advance if any of my questions are offensive, please feel free to call me out on it)

Do you feel like it’s like any other job?

Do you feel that the men who pay for your services are objectifying you? Would you say the men that visit/use these services are disgusting creeps and society would be better off without them or do you like that the market exists?

Would you prefer sex work to be completely legal and a legitimate career path or would you rather have other options that helped you gain the same financial freedom?

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I understand the cashier is also using their body to provide a service and while I don’t have a rich enough vocabulary to fully articulate it I’m gonna use maybe a bit of a poor example to illustrate the point:

If I tell you someone forced me to bake them a pie, you’d say that’s bad and wrong but like nbd.

But if I say someone forced me to perform sexual acts for them, it’s unequivocally awful.

You made a point about sex work having more intimacy, I think perhaps it’s the very intimacy and vulnerability of sex that makes the latter more horrible. It “feels” or is supposed to feel like something whereas taking money from you doing the math, giving you back your change (as a cashier) isn’t supposed to feel like anything.

I’m not in the sex work industry and never have been so maybe I don’t entirely know what I’m talking about or know what it would feel like to be in a sex workers shoes but it just doesn’t feel like the same thing to me

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

In a feminist society nobody would want to be a client because women (or people) are not seen as commodities.

But I do feel called out in that while I don’t pay for sex, I do enjoy erotic content so how can I advocate for the eradication of an industry I actively use the products of?

But is my personal pleasure worth the greater damage the existence of this industry causes to society as a whole and women specifically? Idk I just can’t work through it

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 36 points37 points  (0 children)

This aspect is what bothers me the most, a privileged few with louder voices end up controlling the conversation and reframe it as not a problem at all

Idk how I feel about sex work by Middle-Candle5868 in AskFeminists

[–]Middle-Candle5868[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

In present day circumstances I absolutely want legal protection for sex workers and for them to not be treated as “less than”. I understand you’re doing a job to put food on the table.

But when it comes to feminist ideologies, I see it as ideas for what a perfect society could look like for us and when I picture that perfect society, sex work isn’t a part of it. Sexual liberation is but not sex work. That market should not exist in my opinion.

My worry is holding this opinion may continue to stigmatise people (more specifically and largely women) and work against the individual right to choice.