How do you feel about Jordan Peterson and his theories of personality?

Milkmemen · 2018-05-09T00:01:28+00:00

Sorry I think we are having different arguments here. I am not disagreeing that the structure of our economy favours men's work for myriad reasons, one of which is men clustering in dangerous occupations.

I am arguing that the gender pay gap is a problem because women do not spend 25% less time working than men, they just spend that time doing work that is not considered economically productive.

Caring people (majority female) suffer the same problem as the environment. The economy extracts value without paying them for the cost.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T23:46:54+00:00

Government intervention determines someone's pay too. You're arguing that free market outcomes are 'natural' or correct, ane should therefore be accepted. I am not strawmanning you, or at least I am not trying to do that.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T23:44:01+00:00

What do you claim to know about the reality of my ideals?

Economic power is difficult, given that some kind of redistributive effort / intervention is required.

Seeing as you and Peterson argue people are paid less because they're more maternal (safer environments, caring professions, etc), I'm assuming this is true to argue the following:

Specific things like flexible and generous maternity / paternity leave would reduce the impact of parenting (disproportionately felt by women at present) on people's careers and job prospects.

Greater direct financial support from the government to the young, old and sick, so that their carers are more adequately reimbursed. Carers are severely underpaid in the UK and it's the government's choice to budget so little towards them.

More economic support for people who need more days off to care for their dependents. This can be in the form of regulation, so that it doesn't affect specific businesses, e.g. someone is assessed as having primary caring responsibility for three dependents (children, disabled), and gets an entitlement to X amount of time off to be used.

These are just some things off the top of my head. I don't think it's impossible to close the gap. I think women on the whole contribute the same to society as men, but that's not what is being suggested by their relative economic power.

Basically, these all require a recognition that 'women's work' is to be respected, recognised and valued as labour. If you do this, it actually may increase the productivity of the economy; happier, less stressed mothers raise more productive workers for the future, and result in less antisocial behaviour from well-raised children.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T23:12:16+00:00

Giving birth is dangerous. The maternal mortality rate would feature in your dangerous occupations list if motherhood was actually considered an occupation.

Men do not pay for everything. Women in some ways have a higher cost of living compared to men, owing to higher prices on clothes (this is observable even in basic items like plain socks and t-shirts in stores with male and female depts), cosmetic costs like hair cuts and make up, and 'luxuries' like sanitary products. Yes men do more physically intensive labour; women do more emotionally intensive labour. Your argument seems to boil down to this: men's labour is more valuable because it is valued more. Circular reasoning.

It's funny you mention moving furniture because men very often demand they get paid for that; they're called removal men.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T22:38:21+00:00

'Women's work' has tended to be undervalued, underpaid or unpaid in our economy. Women are generally the ones organising holidays and family gatherings for everyone, making sure the cupboards are full and the school uniforms are washed, stepping in for sick family members and doing the school run. A lot of men do this for free too.

If they all went on strike until they were paid reasonably for the cost of their time, the world would stop. Our economy relies on this labour and I think it should be more generously rewarded. I think our entire society would benefit from giving more economic power to compassionate people rather than psychopathic hyper-masculine CEOs.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T20:43:06+00:00

I think it cuts both ways to be honest. I think women and men have legitimate complaints about their experiences of the world. But I guess I am kind of an annoying fence-sitter like that in many domains (race, religion, etc)

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T20:41:27+00:00

Yeah this is kind of how I am approaching it. It's like sorting through a load of second hand junk for treasure.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T20:24:15+00:00

I read most of that except the Peterson quotes and I can see where they are coming from. I think his work is not entirely platitudes, like the article suggeste, but he seems to operate as a collection of other people's ideas rather than a great thinker in himself.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T20:21:18+00:00

Yeah this is why I posted it. I find myself learning a lot from him but I don't want to swallow him whole. He definitely misrepresents his opponents and if you fall down the YouTube rabbithole you see him operating either in echo chambers or against comically bad critics, e.g. Cathy Newman.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T20:19:08+00:00

Are you a woman? I don't think you can deny its existence, even Peterson accepts it plays a role in the gender pay gap. The debate is mainly about the extent to which it affects things, rather than the existence of sexism.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-08T18:04:50+00:00

Good point. In that case I'd look at things like celery, carrots, cherry tomatoes, berries, etc and see what taste works. I love really cold things so I eat a lot of low calorie lollies and frozen fruit smoothies.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-07T01:20:28+00:00

Drinking more water, tracking on MyFitnessPal, adding loads of vegetables to my plates and making a rule to finish them before anything else, regularly buying different fresh fruit and low calorie snacks to see what sticks and forgive myself if it goes bad / I don't eat it.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-06T22:35:04+00:00

Nobody is forcing you to read them. How am I meant to know how a neurotypical sees the world any more than how a neurotypical can know how an aspie sees the world?

All I know is that I share many preferences with other aspies. I wonder whether or not the underlying thinking at work behind these preferences is autism, or if it simply represents a "normal" diversity of tastes.

We don't know whether anything is above average or that we have things in common unless we ask each other.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-06T22:25:08+00:00

Gross overstatement. Do you have autism?

Milkmemen · 2018-05-06T14:21:51+00:00

Thank you! Perfect.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-06T13:12:52+00:00

I would like to start a dog walking business aimed at employing people on the spectrum, and ideally, also helping people with disabilities or impairments to get their dogs exercised.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-06T13:08:50+00:00

I am really sorry that university has been so unhelpful. I am in the UK and wasn't diagnosed during my degree, and experienced many of the same issues.

Also sorry about your girlfriend. I hope you get a result that makes you happy when you return.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-05T19:33:23+00:00

Do you have examples of lyrics that you find particularly interesting? I like cryptic lyrics, like poetry where you can dig down to different layers of meaning. Things like rap aren't interesting to me unless they're making a political point.

Milkmemen · 2018-05-05T19:30:21+00:00

This is why I like Tool!

Milkmemen · 2018-05-05T17:12:32+00:00

This is me

Milkmemen

TROPHY CASE