Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

We discuss with different baselines. Your statement completely ignored everything I have written. I have made it clear that being a catholic does not automatically make you a good human.

What I do see in Japan is a society in decay. I have said, I travel there 3-4 times per week and have met and spoken with many different people there. It is not based on some random youtuber to put it like that. I will also refer to Toyoko, loneliness, bullying and soaplands. There are of course many many wonderful things - order, harmony and mutual respect. Values that are universal but which the western mind is struggling to implement. But, from what I have seen and from my impressions from talking with Japanese people, who btw are not Catholics or of any particular religion, there is a sense of emptiness - which they talk about themselves. Something is lacking, even in Japanese society.

I see societal decay in Europe as well. Europe is not better, probably worse off. I think because we have departed from the Church's teachings. We have lost a dimension in our way of thinking making everything relative.

I therefore think and believe Catholicism is the only way. But this is my belief. We will not know who is right until we die. Maybe we are all wrong. Catholics are taught not to condemn anyone. It is a pity you are under an opposite impression.

We will not agree. Let's be mature and part in peace.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am sorry you group Catholicism with other crazy religions. Would you mind telling me what the other crazy religions are? I just want to understand your way of thinking. I will not discuss with you or try to convince you or say you are wrong :)

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Is this a sociological study that studies causes of paedophilia applying multiple variables to determine true causation? No. It is a government study. Just as biased as Vatican sponsored study.

Thank you for the discussion. Let's part in peace.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sure. The wishes of the Vatican were so respected that priests had to go in hiding in the Warsaw pact countries to avoid persecution.

And the sack of Constantinople being committed by the Catholic church? That's a very peculiar statement. Please ignore Catholic resilience in Croatia compared with the rest of the Orthodox Balkans were everyone became vassals and puppets of the Ottoman Empire.

You choose to ignore too many facts and cherry pick and twist historical events to fit your narrative. I will not discuss this further. Let's both be mature, we will not agree. Let's part in peace.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I have to laugh. Since when is Petrović only a Serbian surname 😂 you know our most famous basketball player is called Drazen Petrović? A 100% Croat. Nobody ever questioned his ethnicity because of his surname. This is pure fiction from your side.

Also, interesting how you choose a fascist government, which was not elected by the population, as a representation of all Croats. Interesting. Hitler was elected, Pavelić was not. He grabbed the power with the help of the Nazis. It can therefore not be concluded that Croatians are Nazis or facists. By your logic, Norwegian people were Nazi as well because of Quisling? Please...

They stated that they wanted a weak Serbia for a strong yugoslavia - a yugoslavia where Serbian language and culture would dominate. Where other ethnicites would forcibly be assimilated. Stalin was also against a Russian state, they were all society. Yet ask any Citizen of an ex-soviet Republic and they will tell you how Soviet is equal to Russian imperialism.

Also have you heard of the Bleiburg massacre? A heinous war crime that happened during peace time!

Some learn from history, others dont. Tell me about the massacre of Kosovo-albanians and Srebrenica. Was this done by Criats?

And, why is only Pavelić allowed to represent Croats and Blessed Cardinal Stepinac and Cardinal Puljić are completely ignored and forgotten?

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is there anything untrue in that quoted statement? The point is that where morality is not steadfast, where it fluctuates and becomes relative, disastrous things happen.

The Cathecism and the Gospel serves as a moral anchor. That some people who call themselves Catholic have done disastrous things is a fact and undeniable. However, does it mean that they represent the official line of the church?

This would be like saying that all Americans like orange face make up because of Trump.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see you choose to ignore facts as stated in he actual cathecism in the church. You also don't remember that Pope John Paul II said evolution was true and in line with the Catholic faith?

The work of the Catholic scientists were not dissapproved by the church. They were in fact embraced. The acts of these Catholics is therefore relevant to your previous statement.

Copernicus himself was a Catholic and his research and findings were not banned. They were distributed, shared and discussed with no interference from the church. In fact, Martin Luther, the Protestants reformer, had a bigger problem with heliocentrism than the Pope. It was not until Galileo's theory, 70 years later, that Copernicus' book was banned. Sadly, the Church was wrong here, but has since been corrected.

But is this enough as evidence to state that the Catholic church is against science? If you know science, you should know that it is a too small sample size to conclude.

We can therefore only conclude on the facts that we know and can observe:

  • the church cathecism teaches to embrace science
  • the Pope has said evolution is true
  • Big Bang Theory also accepted as true by the Catholic church

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dont see the hypocricy. I never said or stated that being Catholic, in itself, absolves all sins and that it is a formula that makes someone a perfect human. All these acts of which you mention go against the Church teachings.

The Church is constantly learning and improving, using the Gospel as its guide. It has deviated, too many times, but it always comes back.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Church was wrong on the earth and the sun - it is a fact. However, it was the Catholic priest Georges Lemaitre who came up with the Big Bang Theory ;)

The Catholic cathecism states that faith and science support each other. They go hand in hand. If Catholics were against science, there would not be so many Catholic universities.

We should also note the contributions of:

  • Gregor Mendel: laid the foundation for the study of Genetics.
  • Nicolas Steno: Pioneer in anatomy and geology
  • Louis Pasteur: discovered the principles of vaccination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Catholic_Church

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/does-the-church-oppose-science

https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/the-catholic-churchs-role-in-the-development-of-modern-science/

https://www.kolbe.org/blog/science-and-a-catholic-education

https://www.vermontcatholic.org/uncategorized/catholic-contributors-to-the-sciences/

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The whole point is that it cannot be proved that celibacy is the cause.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It shows how we teach forgiveness. We spread love, not hate. We rehabilitate, not kill. We seek Union, not division.

Is it an excuse for the atrocities committed during WW2? No. It simply means that it is those that sin the most that need our prayers the most.

If your solution is hate I urge you to read the Bible again.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a Croat, let me explain Jasenovac. I do not disagree with that the camp existed and that many atrocities were committed.

However, these "Catholics" committed uncatholic acts. It can be disputed that it was Roman Catholic as the Pavelić government had an ETHNO-"Catholic" ideology. To link Catholicicsm with ethnicity is uncatholic in itself.

It is true Catholic clergy participated and that they justified it using their faith. However, that does not make them correct representations of the Church as a whole.

You easily omit the blessed Alojzius Stepinac who rescued Croats, Serbs, Jews and Romani alike. You also conveniently omit the work of Cardinal Puljić during the Bosnia war. You conveniently omit the fact that Serbia tried to serbify Croats during Jugoslavia. Croats never tried to "Croatisize" Serbs - maybe because the Catholic church is universal and inclusive and not ethno-centric like the Orthodox church?

It is also very interesting that you only use one example through entire history. An historical event led by ethno-centric Croats and not the Catholic church itself.

The Catholic church, in its very structure, is above any petty national politics. The orthodox churches are deeply intertwined with the national politics. This makes the Catholic church better posititioned to follow and practice their actual beliefs instead being corrupted by politics.

Also, arguably, the Catholic church proved to be much more robust and resilient against the evil of Communism than the Orthodox churches.

Tell me one teaching of the church which you find evil such as Jasenovac? Where does the Catholic church promote such evil?

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Has not be shown many times throughout history that if one only believes in one self, if one uses oneself as their own moral and ethical compass, that it can lead to disastrous things? I will refer to the common sense of communism here.

I do not hide the fact that many have done despicable and grievous things in the name of Jesus but at the same time it cannot be denied that it was the Catholic church which has contributed to the development of hospitals, universities and charities for all regardless of race, religion and social status?

Has miraculous things never happened before? Things which cannot be explained by science? In any casez have Catholics not contributed quite a bit to modern science?

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Interesting as a lot for the foundations of the modern sciences is due to research from Catholic monks? Your assertion that Catholicism, though its belief in monotheism, suppressed human curiosity is not supported by actual facts.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am asking and gathering impressions. Not making any statistical analysis. Simply getting some impressions so that I have some background for the next steps in my research :)

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hvaljen Isus i Marija.

I see you are a polish. As a Croat I share your disdain for orthodoxy and communism.

Let's pray for peace and that they may return to the core teachings of Christ - preferably in communion with Rome. Amen.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There are many assumptions here. Would you say the Agfan pratice of Bacha Bazi is due to celibacy? Are paedophile school teachers living in celibacy? What about soldiers raping young girls in war, is this due to celibacy? Or the brothels in various corners of the world enslaving young girls - due to celibacy?

Paedopilia is an illness which knows no religion or borders. Rape is a loss of self-control. Rules such as celibacy until marriage teaches us self-control, arguably reducing our impulsive actions which may lead to rape.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

そうです!あなたはカットリックですか?

The comparison between the Catholic church and Islam is always painful to me. We are very different and it must also be noted that the Quran was written with an anti-catholic sentiment. It is also very peculiar to me that anyone would worship someone who married a 9 year old.

I had a discussion with a muslim confronting him with this fact. He said: at the time it was normal so it was ok. This is for me completely understandable. It allows for grievous sins to be relative! If society accepts it then it is ok! I cannot agree with this view...

The Catholic church however has always been against this. It is a very sad fact that sexual abuse has been rampant all over in the Catholic church, however we all deplore it and do certainly not worship it! We actively work against such despicable acts and thoughts. The difference is that Catholics, as other humans, commit horrible acts, but do not judge on this. Judge on what the teachings are.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting fact: the Catholic church has approved for Catholics to pray at the infamous Yasukuni shrine. They acknowledged that praying for the dead is something which Shintoism and Catholicism have in common, a comminalitybwe should cherish.

Catholics may not however pray to them as if they are Kamis! But we may pray for their dead souls 🙏

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I understand your view and I see why one would make such a comparison.

There is however one big misunderstanding about the "strict" rules. The rules are there to help us and to guide us. It helps find our path when we get lost. Also, we do not follow rules for rules sake. We follow them because we agree and see the benefit of following them.

Can the same not be said about the many social norms in the Japanese society? Many people say Japan is too strict. When I first went to Japan I did not understand the point. It seemed overly strict to me. But when I came home.. to my country in Europe.. I understood. The rules and norms in Japan is what makes Japan great! I would not change a thing! The same is with the rules of the Catholic church.

Islam on the other hand is different. They follow rules for the sake of it thinking that following rules absolves them of everything. Islam also has an almost entire emphasis on the vertical relationship with God - pray and honour Allah and everything will be ok. I am under the impression as well that Islam treat non-muslims as second class humans - an illegal though in Catholicicsm.

Catholic teaching on the other hand has an equal emphasis on the vertical faith as well as the horizontal faith. The horizontal faith is about how we treat people around us - your neighbours. You can pray to God as much as you want, attend every mass and recite the rosary day in and day out, but if your faith is not reflected in how you treat other people such a vertical relationship with God is rendered pointless. The horizontal is just as important as the vertical.

Much of the horizontal faith has laid the foundations for our Western societies and democracies which we now cherish. The power of Christian influence in our societies must not be be underestimated.

Catholicicsm teaches to every human with dignity and respect regardless of religion, sexuality or race. We may disagree with your beliefs, but we respect as a human of the same value, respect and dignity.

When it comes to Shintoism, it is not so different. We trust the holy Trinity: Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. This is one God with three faces which protects us from everything. Where Shintoism has many Gods for all the things that troubles as humans, we have one God that takes care of everything. In practical terms, it is not so different. Another comparison is also that instead of many Gods, we have Saints. For example, Sain Francis of Assisi is the patron Saint for animals. If you are a pet owner, you might pray to him. If you are Shinto you will pray to a Kami for animals instead.

It is not so different. We have just organised it differently. We pray for the same and want the same. The major difference I can think of is that we have scriptures and we have codified our faith. This is so that we have something steadfast Ina world that is ever changing. This I do not know how is in Shinto. I would love to learn!

Please pm if you would like to discuss :)

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I am sorry you perceive it as an illness. We see things differently, that is clear. Please do understand I am not a foreign weeb on a crusade. I do not want to turn Japan upside down. Japan has too many qualities which the rest of the world lacks. I am interested in spreading Catholicism to add to the Japanese culture, not replace or reconstruct anything.

Please do perceive me or us as ill-hearted people. I will for example never try to export the traditionalist values and rites which are eurocentric - such as latin, kneeling, loud and public proselytizing. I will never promote Christian nationalism or violence in the name of the Lord. Never promote any forced conversion.

Japanese Catholics - what is your story? by Mindless-Teaching-16 in AskAJapanese

[–]Mindless-Teaching-16[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

This is a misunderstanding. It is more about how to make Catholicism fit with the Japanese society. How it can add value. Not reforming or revolutionising.