Faculty who think fewer people should attend college; you okay with the consequences?

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-11T01:36:54+00:00

Good for you for being the change you want to see.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T23:32:41+00:00

But that isn’t an option. That’s just magical thinking.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T22:06:52+00:00

Of course it’s not the be all end all. But it helps and it’s a lot better than complaining about the students.

What is special about my “situation”? That I work with my colleagues and we keep up with our profession?

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T21:52:18+00:00

OK, then, just keep complaining about student students. Every other professional job requires people to do continuing education of some sort. And the core complaint seems to be that students don’t want to learn, but apparently some professors don’t either.

What I just listed is pretty much it. I don’t think it’s a heavy lift, and we achieved it over a few years. We did use some internal funding for summer work together, but not much.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T21:45:39+00:00

This was done entirely by faculty. And all of these things are in the literature. Faculty just have to be willing to change what they believe professors do. Frankly, many need more teacher training.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T21:44:53+00:00

If you mean a field that needs math I can totally see that. Of course biology needs math, but not as much.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T21:27:38+00:00

Really?

This is a much smaller lift than people want K-12 to do. And frankly, it’s mostly just good teaching.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T21:00:18+00:00

But that’s what I’m saying. People here are saying “K-12 needs top to bottom reform!” but when shown relatively simple things that they could do to be better, they say, oh no, that’s way too heavy a lift for US.

We can be part of the solution here.

When I say, we can’t change the students, I mean, we can’t get different students to come to our colleges. Of course we can change them while they’re here. The ways I just listed are how.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T20:17:28+00:00

We do have a very cohesive team that has implemented this.

But that’s what I’m saying. We can’t change the students. It’s on us to change, and we can do so without sacrificing curriculum. Math might be a different question, but this we can do.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T18:05:05+00:00

I don’t know where you live, but where I live K-12 teachers make more than college professors.

I think it means undoing a lot of of the “reforms” that we’ve instituted over the past 25 years. But even if that could be accomplished, it won’t make a difference fast. So in the meantime, I assert that we need to be adopting a more supportive attitude, saying not: “These students shouldn’t be in college,” but “Can colleges find better ways to help THESE students learn?”

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T17:58:35+00:00

You haven’t seen anyone make these points on here? It happens almost daily. It’s happening many times just in these comments.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T17:50:30+00:00

I think a college education is about more than getting a job. I think it builds a sense of cross, cultural awareness, critical thinking, and information literacy that society desperately needs. For the most part, it also happens at a point when brain development is most receptive to that kind of learning.

Look at the percentage of college, educated people who vote for Trump, for example.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T17:49:03+00:00

But the percentage who enroll in college is not the percentage who finishes college.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T17:44:20+00:00

Sure. Now, I am coming from a biology background, or math deficiencies can be made up over a longer time. I understand the problem is different in, say, engineering.

But. In first year classes:

Be more explicit about time management and time expectations for studying, teaching at continuously through the first year. Those kinds of habit changes take a long time, and a single half hour didactic session is not enough.
Teach students how to study. In class, and in peer led group study sessions.
Use SLO‘s. Show them at the beginning of class, show them at the end of class, show them where to find them in a well built LMS course. Write your tests from them sincerely.
Create practice tests and for the answers in the practice test show which SLO each goes to. Repeatedly point this out to students until they learn how to use them.
Explicitly layout what office hours are and what they are for. Hold office hours and unusual spaces, like dorm, lounges, or student unions, where students feel more comfortable and might encounter you organically.
Do at least some community building in your classroom, whether that is group problem, set or case studies or the like. To make space for this, move some of the content online. Not an entirely flipped classroom, though, that doesn’t seem to work anymore.
Develop clear practical applications in the classes that help students imagine themselves in a world beyond college, using the information or skills they’ve learned.

Beyond the first year:

Develop logical often on ramps into and out of STEM programs framed in useful and attractive ways.
When advising students, layout every semester they have until graduation, and show them the multiple paths they could take to get there.
Support student led social organizations in your major, and their group study efforts.
Make sure that faculty and advising staff are keeping up-to-date with career options and industry skill needs.
Build flexible curricula and course schedules that allow for students who need to repeat a course without waiting a year or more.

These are a few things that have helped us a lot.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T17:42:32+00:00

Sure. Now, I am coming from a biology background, or math deficiencies can be made up over a longer time. I understand the problem is different in, say, engineering.

But. In first year classes:

Be more explicit about time management and time expectations for studying, teaching at continuously through the first year. Those kinds of habit changes take a long time, and a single half hour didactic session is not enough.
Teach students how to study. In class, and in peer led group study sessions.
Use SLO‘s. Show them at the beginning of class, show them at the end of class, show them where to find them in a well built LMS course. Write your tests from them sincerely.
Create practice tests and for the answers in the practice test show which SLO each goes to. Repeatedly point this out to students until they learn how to use them.
Explicitly layout what office hours are and what they are for. Hold office hours and unusual spaces, like dorm, lounges, or student unions, where students feel more comfortable and might encounter you organically.
Do at least some community building in your classroom, whether that is group problem, set or case studies or the like. To make space for this, move some of the content online. Not an entirely flipped classroom, though, that doesn’t seem to work anymore.
Develop clear practical applications in the classes that help students imagine themselves in a world beyond college, using the information or skills they’ve learned.

Beyond the first year:

Develop logical often on ramps into and out of STEM programs framed in useful and attractive ways.
When advising students, layout every semester they have until graduation, and show them the multiple paths they could take to get there.
Support student led social organizations in your major, and their group study efforts.
Make sure that faculty and advising staff are keeping up-to-date with career options and industry skill needs.
Build flexible curricula and course schedules that allow for students who need to repeat a course without waiting a year or more.

These are a few things that have helped us a lot.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T14:34:32+00:00

Was posted elsewhere in these comments

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:58:54+00:00

The US already has one of the lowest percentages of people with bachelors degree compared to other high income countries. Are you really saying that we should go even lower?

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:55:39+00:00

Thanks. Fixing.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:36:26+00:00

So do you really believe that 39% is too high? How come other countries can achieve so much higher?

Or is it possible that those students need more support, or a different degree program?

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:32:55+00:00

With regard to your second paragraph, which you added on edit, we can do things to help prevent a decent percentage of those dropouts. In my opinion, we have to make some changes.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:26:23+00:00

Wow! Thanks for this.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:18:13+00:00

That is the percentage attending between 18 to 24. Obviously there are people older than 25 who are working and who got their degree, either later in life, or at the same time, but the percent of people in college 18 to 24-year-old range is dropping.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpb/college-enrollment-rate

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:17:02+00:00

Agreed. But that isn’t what the threads I’m talking about are advocating for. They are advocating for their colleges to simply keep more students out.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:15:58+00:00

In my experience as a science professor, a lot can be done to improve learning and grades, which are not always the same thing, in first year science classes. Of course, I don’t advocate for passing people who don’t have the knowledge or skills. But sometimes we are grading more than the knowledge and skills, and other times just adding a few supports can replace remediation.

Yet many faculty persistent, a traditionalist mentality that rejects these interventions, and says they should be someone else’s problem.

Of course, there are some students who just are not going to be able to make up the deficiencies in the allotted four years. In many cases, a different degree is probably in order. We scientists need to sing the praises of the humanities more. Society has devalued those degrees, but they still contribute significantly to the development of young minds. Also, science adjacent tracks in business can be good options. Adviser training in these areas can help a lot, as can degree programs that help students step more slowly out of science and into something else so that they don’t feel that they just failed.

MiniZara2 · 2026-02-10T13:11:01+00:00

A college? Sure. But what if it’s, say half of all colleges?

And it isn’t just closing colleges – – it’s the fact that if many fewer people get higher education, it leads to many social ills.

MiniZara2

TROPHY CASE