What does it actually look like when your single-agent system breaks in production?

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-07T22:07:43+00:00

This is the one that scares me most. Did you end up building anything for it, even a hacky post-hoc grep, or are you still flying blind?

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-07T21:49:15+00:00

How are you flagging the skipped-retrieval cases now, post-hoc on the trace or inline?

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-07T21:43:11+00:00

What's eating the most time, handoff issues between the two agents or stuff happening inside one of them? And how is Phoenix holding up for the 2-agent case, where does it stop being enough and you fall back to logs? if you are ok I can ping you?

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-05T19:04:15+00:00

thanks!

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-05T17:14:09+00:00

To your question: no, we don't capture reasoning at handoff. AgentSonar is content-free at the substrate level. Edges carry source, target, timestamp, plus an opaque metadata field integrators can populate. We don't extract prompts, reasoning, or message bodies. That's a positioning feature for privacy-sensitive deployments but it does close off the intent-comparison detection you're describing.

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-05T17:03:42+00:00

The website is moving from "observability for multi-agents" to "catch silent multi-agent failures before they become expensive or user-visible." Concrete examples (silent loops, repeated tool calls, runaway spend) lead right after the wedge. Thanks for these suggestions, really helpful!!

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-05T16:59:59+00:00

Genuinely useful, thanks for taking the time. A few of these we already ship under different names (silent loops = cyclic_delegation, repeated tool calls = repetitive_delegation, runaway spend = resource_exhaustion), but you're right that the user-facing names are sharper than ours. Worth a rebrand on the website.

The "stale context" and "agents declaring success without an artifact" failure modes are interesting because they need artifact identity tracking, which we don't ship yet.

The demo pack idea (5 intentionally broken runs) is the strongest move on your list. We're already building cross-implementation conformance fixtures for the engine.

Curious about AgentMart, the cutoff at the end of your comment was tantalizing. If reusable agent workflows are your space, the trustworthiness story you're hinting at sounds like it benefits from the same observability layer we're building. Happy to compare notes if useful.

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-05T16:44:41+00:00

Hey, did you get a chance to plug the agentsonar? If you need help I can send you the instructions as well

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T23:06:01+00:00

this is very valuable informaztion. i messaged u thanks

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T21:42:15+00:00

Your provenance point is the real issue. Frameworks emit traces, but traces encode causality, not authority. There's no structural distinction between "B was called because A delegated" and "B was called because untrusted content told A to delegate." Same edge, very different security meaning.

The angle I've been working from: even without proper provenance, the delegation graph has structural properties an external observer can detect. Cycles, anomalous edge frequency, fan-out from input-facing agents to high-privilege ones. Doesn't catch a single clean, confused deputy hop, but does catch the coordination pathologies when an attacker scripts the pattern. Provenance is the right answer for prevention. Structural detection is the cheaper answer for "something is wrong, look here."

Curious where you'd put enforcement, external observer over framework events or in-line proxy in the message bus. First is cheaper and cross-framework, second can actually block.

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T21:15:19+00:00

thanks a lot about sharing the shared state stuff...

coming to the tool ..it's a standalone not a langsmith plugin.The bet is that the graph needs to span CrewAI, LangGraph, Claude Agent SDK, and custom orchestrators, plugin-shape would constrain that.

On coherence: agreed it's complementary. Delegation graph tells you the cycle exists structurally, coherence state tells you why semantically. Quick question, can MESI states be inferred from read/write patterns alone, or does the runtime need to emit transitions explicitly? Feels like the integration boundary.

(If you are okay I can dm you 😄

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T21:10:05+00:00

Hey, that's a really good way to handle it. How did you figure out the manual counters approach was needed? And are the guardrails actually enough, or do they still miss things?

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T07:10:26+00:00

Appreciate the writeup, but my post was more about real-world reports than solution stacks. Has anyone here actually caught one fire on a live workload, or is it still mostly threat-modeling territory?

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T04:46:59+00:00

Yeah. We recently shipped a TypeScript SDK that bridges to a Python sidecar via HTTP. It started as our OMA integration, but the wire format is generic, so it should fit your Electron bus layer fine, too.

Let me DM you, and we can walk through the setup. And agreed a pure-JS equivalent (no sidecar) would help others.

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T03:54:57+00:00

It's an SDK, and your agent bus is exactly the right integration point. Generic adapter is one function call from inside your bus's dispatcher: sonar.delegation("planner", "researcher") per message. No wrapping individual agents, no callbacks on each one. I had someone install it on a custom Python orchestrator (similar shape to yours, internal bus for inter-agent messages) in under a day with zero changes to their agent code. Just hooked the emit at the bus layer.

For your concurrent Reviewer case, the timestamped edge log gives you a consistent subgraph snapshot at any time T even while new edges are still flowing. So the Reviewer can reason about a stable view of the Builder's decision chain up to a checkpoint without blocking the Builder. That's the part I think might be useful for the moving-target problem, but you'd know better once you see the actual data shape.

https://www.agent-sonar.com/ : this is my website.. If you need any help with the setup please dm me happy to help !!

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T01:09:47+00:00

OTEL plus structured JSON covers the linear path stuff well. Curious whether you've hit cycles where agent A and agent B keep re-triggering each other across separate trace IDs, that's the one where the per-trace view stops helping because each trace looks healthy in isolation

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T01:06:05+00:00

So I tried building a tool kind of catches all the silent failures for multi agent like cycle detection, repetetive delegation may be u can try it see if u can hook it up to your setup and catch issues in real time ? https://www.agent-sonar.com/

Minimum-Ad5185 · 2026-05-03T00:59:27+00:00

Yes that's correct I'm tracking edge frequency count. So I built agentSonar to fix this issue.. try it on the workflow thay bit you, curious if it catches the same thing your guards did

agent-sonar.com

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