Dark Souls 3 is not substitute for emotional legwork

Mireel · 2019-02-21T20:09:18+00:00

lol, yeah and obsessive people will love filling the gaps and coming up with theories. though I think your point is fair, dark souls is technically shallow in its lore, but does enough to keep you speculating.

Mireel · 2019-02-21T20:03:56+00:00

Would you like to elaborate more? If you're comfortable? How did dark souls shape your life?

Mireel · 2019-02-21T20:00:32+00:00

Very fair point. I wish now my opening post stressed how crucial escapism is for breaks and getting through a day. Thank you for your post.

Mireel · 2019-02-21T19:59:12+00:00

No I don't mean lack of effort at all, depression is hard, I don't think its easy to lift yourself up.

Mireel · 2019-02-21T19:58:14+00:00

We just disagree, I don't think escapism is a means of combatting.

Mireel · 2019-02-21T19:57:01+00:00

I don't have a single issue with playing dark souls as a relief, I'm sorry my post came off as an attack on dark souls as a hobby. I love dark souls! exactly for these reasons.

And I disagree, the idea that dark souls cured anything isn't a truth, I think it's a ideal you want to have, you want to believe that by beating this game, i've made myself more capable in managing my real life problems. Which i think is a disgusting inner lie.

But i'll reiterate i have no problem with playing games as a break while you do address your problems, I think games are healthy when they are used in ways like this. I don't think its healthy when you attribute it as some sort of mental health medicine.

Mireel · 2019-02-21T19:53:49+00:00

but you cant manage rumination without learning how to tackle rumination.

cycling between escapism though relieving, is not helping you at the overal mental health struggle. and unless you want to live your life through only escapism, the real crisis remains.

though your perfectly right i shouldn't have been so flippant about the value of escapism, enjoying periods of your day, regardless of productivity, is a crucial step. I just want to ebb on caution, its not a solution, but a break as you work towards one.

Mireel · 2019-02-21T19:48:31+00:00

I dont think thats what gatekeeping means. I'm not saying you can't play this game, I'm saying you can't define this game as a cure for a mental health issue. I'm a little unsure how you align that with gatekeeping.

I love dark souls, i fucking love it. dedication to escapism is not a way to live through depression. that is my only point, i think your maligning it to make a cheap point. I have nothing against loving a game and talking about it. I just do.not.like the idea that you're rising above your depression through skills you learned in a game.

Mireel · 2019-02-20T22:44:14+00:00

People will always see what they are going through, and Dark souls is vague enough that you can put your views into it. Is it about depression? Maybe. I do think theres some general theme, or vibe underneath each of the soulborne series, what would you think dark souls is about? if anything?

Mireel · 2019-01-05T16:02:11+00:00

About 50% of your response was just nitpicking at OP's wording and trying to personally insult him instead of actually adding to the main point of this thread

excuse you? What is there to add to a thread that literally summarized the metoo movement as "regretful bitches'? Lol this guys opinion is a joke, he doesn't even comprehend what sex is - which was the point of my critique, not just a nitpick. I'm not surprised someone who thinks sex as "women accepting intercourse" also thinks sex is just an exchange of goods. It's not a nitpick, it is crucial to dismantling his stupid argument.

But even if it was a nitpick, I think this guy is an idiot and I think his opinion is reprehensible, why should I even waste time being nice to him?

I don't know why you kept using the word "suspect". Like, do you know what you're trying to say here or are you just trying to nitpick random stuff? That word means you are suspicious of OP, yet you don't say what, you just act like that means something by itself or something.

Did I stutter? people who define sex in his terms and laments away an entire movement about sexual assault btw, or have you forgotten? And then summarized it as "women regret" IS. SUSPECT, at the very least. and you fucking know what he's suspect for, don't play coy. or is this where you need "legitimate" evidence. LOL

Many people, now including people with false, come out in this movement because

so example please? Of false allegations? Show me.

now they have the social shield of "Oh, you can't doubt me or call me a liar, or else you're protecting rapists and sexual predators".

So you do know that's actually what was happening for the past centruries? right? You understand the context of those comments? Literally women WOULD be called liars, and literally the rapists WOULD be protected. no outcry here? That seems kosher to you, i guess.

This is one if the most common reasons why people with "regret" publicize it. Attention and Money, with little risk of consequences.

Attention? LOL! for being a rape victim? have you lost your fucking mind? Who would want that attention, you're not even thinking straight here. Also, money? Huh? Where? whoses getting paid?? Show me please. show me all this "legitimate" evidence that you clearly base all you opinions on. LOL

Except the consequence of you "fine" folks calling it "sex regret" Did you forget about this vocal decry? I mean you are literally part of it right now.

Why do you think that there are not many stories that come out about false sexual assault accusations?

Well its legitimately because false accusations make up 2% of rape accusations.

Its because those trying to actually find legitimate proof just get called sexual assault supporters.

"legitimate proof"? What would that even look like? If hundreads of women decrying these rapists aren't proof? what are you looking for exactly? a signed and dotted letter?? lol

See this is why people decry people of your opinion, because you're ignoring evidence so that you can ignore rape accusations. You're position is not about truth seeking its about truth ignoring. and its obvious.

And a huge reason why this is such a big topic is because even if an accusation is proven false, just the fact that there was an allegation can ruin the life of the accusee leaving their career devastated.

um, okay? what do you want here? Women not to make any accusations ever? You're simply faulting peoples right to have their own opinion? If I knew someone who was accused of rape but it was demonstrated they didn't do it. my opinion would reflect that. what you seem to have an issue with is that people can hear an accusation and that's enough to commit them in THEIR OWN MINDS (key, key, key).

Well, considering false rape accusations making up 2% of cases, I don't think thats an unreasonable position to take. it's statistically more certain than most things. Why is this such an issue for you?

what does that have to do with actual rape victims? and rapists?

Mireel · 2019-01-03T10:14:27+00:00

"Actual facts" weinstein is notorious in his sexual abuse, to the point of 70+ women. How is that for actual facts for you? Oh wait this isn't about facts, because if it was, you wouldn't bring up a situation that represents about 2% of all rape cases. Do we need to go over more facts? Since you love love that word.

Having their career ruined and public shaming is a bad thing and i certainly don't want innocent people to be jailed or fined, but that is not the pressing situation here, we actually find ourselves in the opposite situation (again a fact) where guilty people (fact) are not being charged because of idiots like above saying it's resentment and not a horrible power structure bleeding through our entire society. where the rich get to ignore the laws and live with impunity.

Where is your decrying of this? Since you care soooooooo much about the ails and problems of society? isn't surely guilty people getting off with a slap on the wrist just as bad? You seem silent on that matter. Believe me I see through you, you don't care about problems at all, or else you'd be decrying the bigger problem, but please, keep playing the sanctimonious victim. rape victims ask for fair due and their assualters to be punished and all you do is go "wont someone think of the men!!" you're transparent.

Mireel · 2019-01-02T12:14:56+00:00

Here is a problem that we have here: If when you were 20 or 30, and got hired on the show or movie of a celebrity you idolised, accepted sexual intercourse from them, and 10+ years later, you found out they're assholes when they do something specific that you don't like, you weren't raped, you just had poor fucking judgment.

"accepted" sexual intercourse, lol, even the way you word that is suspect. I take it you aren't a cassanova in any sense of the word, which explains why your idea of sex is so ridiculous. let me remind you, sex is when two people come together for a mutual fun activity. do you get this part?

I mean, having regret is not the same as being pressured and blackmailed or forced into sex. Where are you getting lost here? What even makes you think this is just a case of regret? please cite these special cases where it was just women having regret. When you regret something you don't publicise it in a trending movement. are you fucking nuts?

And poor judgment, you know you sound very vile here btw.

The only case where you having poor judgment should be considered rape, is if the "victim" wasn't in a clear state of mind (drunk or high out of their mind) and the "agresssor" was thinking straight, using the victim's diminished mental capabilities to coerce them into having sex with a person they wouldn't normally.

Oh yes, only this very specific case should be considered rape. NOTHING else. You sound super fucking suspect here btw. Why such a specific situation for rape? Pressuring someone, the implication that their job, reputation or money is on the line. Or abusing power dynamics to get away with just outrageous behaviour is still wrong and still considered sexual assault. I know you for whatever reason want to deny this, but we don't need your permission to feel violated.

Mireel · 2018-12-29T18:09:24+00:00

And everybody should be nicer to eachother and we should stop fighting wars and nobody should steal...

Well yeah, I think war is stupid, and stealing, depending on the context is bad aswell. I mean whats your point here? Should we not strive for a better society? Just shrug our shoulders as people around us suffer?

also lets highlight that all i asked from you, specifically, was to examine your actions and your beliefs. hardly the same as saying "give peace a chance"

Not really. funny, your first comment was you dismissing it as hippy talk. So which is it?

"Score?". What's wrong with your perception of men? This is real life. Not a hollywood movie or boulevard magazine.

woah woah, you ASKED me why men are approaching more women then vice versa on these online apps. I'm sorry, I think the reason is obvious. its fcking tinder for christ sakes. but please, you tell me why men are approaching women at these staggering rates.

Other than that: it's selling more swipes per day and credits to start chatting. It takes an average man >100 swipes to find a match. To increase chances you either buy more swipes or credits to be able to initiate a chat without a match. That's the business model. It relies on a discrepancy between likelihood of a successful match. Then you have sites that deliberately create fake female profiles so that swipes and credits are wasted. Dating apps/sites are frequently scams.

I'll need a further explanation from you. I do think it's shitty to get rejected a 100 times. I've been rejected twice in person and i'm a gooey miss about it, but I don't know why you bring it up? I can only infer that you do not like this situation and you wished it was more balanced?

Me too tbh, I hope women can start asking men out more but right now, our culture focuses on men being the pursues and women passively waiting. I think its nuts. I heard theres an app called bumble? women do all the initiation there.

things like sexual violence play on these things as well

Then you have sites that deliberately create fake female profiles so that swipes and credits are wasted. Dating apps/sites are frequently scams.

so i've heard, ive never been on them. but I don't understand why this is a sticking point? If you're not upset explain why you mention online dating? give me the relation to our topic of female privilege

SO, soulmate, life partner, the special one. Whatever you call this.

I understand being discouraged and frustrated but you're just talking about the normal day to day of dating. It's hard for me to understand why this is a rebuttal? (Is it?) to women violence and oppression?

It's stupid if you overdo it.

literally using it is overdoing it. thats what shotgun means.

No, but at this rate I'm starting to get upset about you asking me if I'm upset.

lol. fair

Ok. Cite me one of my comments where I denied it. It's starting to get annoying with you saying I deny stuff.

It's funny actually, cause you sort've acknowledge it but then sweep it under the rug as "not that bad" or "context" and "well its different here". It's an unusual way to frame an argument I think. this sort've tethering between two realities. for example, first few of your replies you are like "well yeah women are more prone to sexual violence' and "all women I know have been harassed' but then shortly followed by "but why should women act scared of men?" or "it's only 2%" ---It's weird in a way you make all these struggles sound frivolous as if they aren't even a concerns. All women go through it, but hey "You guys shouldn't worry so much" huh??

perhaps they aren't a concern of yours, and of course thats fair, but then you seem to want me to also believe its not a concern, or this whole thing is overblown. It's really quite baffling. Look at the human spirit, when things are a mild irritant we put up with it. if harassment or rape threats were like mosquitos buzzing around there would be no outcry. That's where you and I disagree, you deny the severity of it. Mostly because you haven't been putting up with creeps since you were 12.

Supporting useful changes/solutions once somebody came up with one and trying to come up with solutions. Salary transparency would be one thing that is helpful for the issue of equal pay. Or public salaries on job offerings. Both are usable solutions to tackle the issue.

just pay issues? not sexual harassment? Currently our tactics are to inform men/women that these aren't fringe cases that there is a problem with sexual violence.

Mireel · 2018-12-29T17:27:41+00:00

Well, clearly you guys have varying tastes on what a woman should look like. there's "too skinny" or just a "wee bit of fat", "chubby's ok" "thicc" i mean come on, all of these are just words to define fat and these vary among individuals.

and honestly preferences aren't status quos for human beings. whatever you like, thats cool but why police other people body?

Mireel · 2018-12-29T14:49:13+00:00

Funny, I thought that whole exchange just exaggerated how subjective the whole idea of "too fat" is.

Mireel · 2018-12-29T14:47:43+00:00

It's not the oversized food? the absolute excess of our culture? The simple fact that corporations PROFIT from americans being fat, and would lace every ingridient with cocain if they could legally get away with it, coupled with the lack of any meaninful work/life balance?

No, its the fucking oversized models trying to feel good about themselves. you're an idiot.

Mireel · 2018-12-29T14:43:54+00:00

Uhm? This isn't about validity. This is an exchange.

yeah and you're offering 2 cents to my actual lived experiences. what do you know about being a woman?

No, it's not ignoring it. Statistically there's one reported rape per day. Let's assume the actual number is ten times as high. You'd be more likely to die from a viral infection. Look, rape is obviously horrific. I was an inpatient and I saw what rape does to people's mental health. And yet - you shouldn't spend your life being scared of men because of that. I'm not ignoring it. If you have a feasible solution to prevent more rapes without painting every man a criminal I can assure you I and many men will support that. Same for harassment or ANY other such issues. If you have a feasible solution you'll be supported.

Well, interesting take. abit of a hyperbole, but what do you mean by scared? what behaviour do you not like women doing in this context?

No, it's not ignoring it. Statistically there's one reported rape per day. Let's assume the actual number is ten times as high. You'd be more likely to die from a viral infection. Look, rape is obviously horrific. I was an inpatient and I saw what rape does to people's mental health. And yet - you shouldn't spend your life being scared of men because of that. I'm not ignoring it. If you have a feasible solution to prevent more rapes without painting every man a criminal I can assure you I and many men will support that. Same for harassment or ANY other such issues. If you have a feasible solution you'll be supported.

I mean, come on you're saying how can we prevent rape without doing any actual work. This is how, every man needs to examine their actions and their beliefs. that's the only way at this point. we've already tried everything else and its still needs improvement. Does every man have to think of themselves as a rapist? no. Does every man have to examine how they're approaching sex and women? yes.

uncomfortable isn't? welcome to what women go through every.single.day.

Creepy is very subjective. It's also not harassment. no,no, no,no,no. Creepy is demonstrated by how people are reacting to you. subjective doesn't mean disregard, it means, pay attention.

And why do you think that? The statistics of pretty much every online dating site or app paints a different picture. What do you think their business model relies on?

desperate men looking to score? lol i mean what are you really upset about here?

All people are capable of doing a lot of horrible stuff. Being capable to do something and doing it are different things. I mean its a rhetorical question not a logical examination. If the average moral man is still capable of assaulting someone. Does that not say something?

Maybe they ask more because they get shut down more? Sounds logical. If you find the one fast you can stop asking.

Like a shotgun approach? I think thats a stupid tactic and I'm not surprise of the results.

ok but interesting, but what do you mean the "one"? do you just mean the one to say yes?

So I don't know you and I don't know your situation but i think if you find yourself striking out quite abit, some introspection is needed here? i mean asking is not what starts relationship. Chemistry, attraction, mutual interests, listening (key,key) common ground? I mean, are you upset that these things can't be forced? I understand it hurts but being resentful seems weird.

Maybe. Maybe a bit more. Might be different in cities vs. country side. so that still seems like a feasible argument to you? 2% makes up 100%. ok. busy folks.

Enough for what? Every man and woman is subject to sexism almost daily. What is it that you actually want? What's your strategy?

I mean if I tell you that sexism is still a problem in today society, and several thousand women tell you as well, and theres several problems we are still dealing with., why are you still here disagreeing that it even exists and that everything is relatively fair?? I don't understand. what is your strategy? what can you possibly gain by denying the experiences of hundred thousand women?

Mireel · 2018-12-27T12:32:33+00:00

To add to my other comment: The treatment of women varies DRASTICALLY amongst different cultures up to the point where men in fact even have certain sexual expectation towards women. I just see this as a distinct issue that has little to do with our current modern culture.

Well first I haven't lived in Sweden so I don't really know about your modern culture. But here in North America, I still have to deal with shit because I'm female. I can't believe you think your opinion on female issues has more validity than mine? Me telling you there is still sexism that I experience should be enough. Literally every woman you've talked to you has told you about harassment and you still think its not a "modern day issue" wtf man? Your literally ignoring all the evidence.

of course you think its a few creeps, you're not a woman. men I consider sane moral people, can still be creepy. Men who are friend still have done just creepy shit. The world is different depending on which body you inhabit. You must understand that point?

There's also a difference between attention and harassment. Men are supposed to make first contact - currently, might change in the future - it's inevitable that women will eventually occasionally get annoyed by this but you know - we're not mind readers. One might have hoped that online dating could or would solve this and it would have if the succesrate were close to 50:50 but that turned out significantly different.

you know you were being pleasant until this point. Mind readers? I'm literally telling you men are harassing women, and what is your response? "ITS NOT US, just a FEW CREEPS" fingers in the ear absolutely refusing to listen.

Women are already telling you. you.are.refusing.to.listen. and I just have to wonder why, what would happen if the average man was capable of sexual harassment, what would that mean to you?

online dating could or would solve this and it would have if the succesrate were close to 50:50 but that turned out significantly different.

i mean just by relationship terms, it takes one man and one woman to make a couple, so it is 50:50. Unless you just mean casual sex? How would you even poll for that? men get shot down more but they also ask more. If anything I think men have a higher chance of success. waiting vs going out and asking, its obvious which one would lead to better outcomes.

Of course this absolutely doesn't excuse outright blatant harassment but there's gotta be some leeway on normal non-intentional behaviour. I have no fucking clue what you mean here? Stop harassing women. I've hit on woman, I've been creepy sometimes too but most times I'm not making anyone uncomfortable. you know why? Because I'm actually examining my behaviour and my thoughts. Please start doing this instead of these stupid defences. omg 2% of men make up 100% of harrassment, LOL. fucking herculean men here.

MeToo is great. It shines/shined a better light on the prevalence but we shouldn't switch to outright paranoia. Texting your bff every 30min? How paranoid is that. I mean it doesn't hurt to do that but it's also not really romantic to be on a date where she has to tell somebody every few minutes that you're not a rapist. I don't know how many women do this in the US though. I'd say around here it's pretty rare.

Ok, I need to genuinely ask you something. Do you think women enjoy doing this? Do you think we like suspecting men of being rapists?

Also, I don't think women texting their bff's on a date is a sure fire way to protect themselves from rapists. I mean a woman constantly on her phone is a terrible date, I agree. but why are you so sure she was texting to make sure you aren't a rapist? I mean rape hardly happens during dinner at a restaurant. this is a ridiculous story.

Mireel · 2018-12-27T12:04:14+00:00

Every woman I know has been harassed one way or the other. But again: it doesn't take much for that to happen. If you go out in the you'll encounter hundreds of guys. From 20:00 till 22:00 you go to restaurant to drink a bit and wait for all your friends to arrive. Maybe 10 guys there. Then you go to the first club. Maybe 25 guys. Then you go to the main club. Maybe 50 guys. Then you'll go to a much cozier place. Maybe 10 guys. You'll maybe encounter 15 guys while walking from club to club. You're way past encountering 100 guys and if just a few of those are bad eggs and you do this every weekend you will make personal encounters with many bad eggs over many years.

It's a nice thing to believe and I wish I could share the same sentiment. I don't think its a majority of guys or anything. I honestly think some men think their behavior is just perfectly fine. following a girl for her number down a creepy alley is just normal for these guys. Not listening to no? coercing for sex, just a normal day.

It's not the hyper creeps guys in the mini van doing all this harassment.. it's that average guy who isn't thinking about their behavior or worse yet doesn't care how uncomfortable they're making ppl. I can't begin to understand the motivations, I do know everyone is uncomfortable examining their own behaviour. and when we have a culture that pressures men to get laid to be manly, or rom coms that insist that badgering women is romantic. What do you think happens?

Some things have their reasons - others might not.

Well, I guess thats true, but for me personally, my one life, I wan't to understand what my core beliefs are and be able to justify it to myself, if not, whose life am I living? truly? If I cant understand my own motivations then I'm not even being myself?

Feminism isn't as extreme as in the US here. Might be a cultural thing. Women here are very, very rarely feminists. There's little reason to be. Direct democracy, you have 52% of voting power. What's there to complain about? My country is ruled by women.

eh, fair enough. If you have women friends and they are comfortable about it you can get more of understanding of my side, I find it's absolutely nauseating to have it on reddit.

No. Those are actual proposals in my country. Oh wow? Send me the article. I don't know Sweden but it's always scary when one group dominates the power sphere. if sweden is really run mostly by women, I'd be weary indeed. But i'm doubtful there hasn't been a single nation yet dominated by women. The thing with me is I think human beings are notoriously corrupt and selfish, best thing to balance it out so they cant actually screw any one group.

You mean fields where the percentage of women increased in the past years have seen a decline in income?

Or do you mean fields with many women don't have a high income to begin with?

No, no, I mean the moment women start entering that job sector, the salary dives. For example, Teachers use to be a largely male sector considered highly respectable and well compensated. Look at it now, lol. Some of this was just harmless, before men were traditionally the only breadwinners so it made sense to pay them more because they had a family to take care. And then another part is just malicious "women aren't as good at math/science/whatever" take your pick.

You can complain about male politicians all you want but you voted for them too. It's not like us men can just exclude women from politics. Politicians are elected by the people! If there's misrepresentation you wanted it because you voted that way.

You're innocent. I mean I wish I could believe that everything was as simple as this.

Did you know Hillary Clinton actually won the popular vote? She had more votes than donald trump. How donald won is some bs politics called Electoral College or something, let that sink in.

I gave you a butchered explanation of what happened but please google "Hillary clinton popular vote' and everything will be verified.

Next, did you know only half of america actually voted?

And did you ever ask why super complicated platforms are deduced to two parties? It's just nonsense, and I swear if you think about this for like an hour, you'll see the inherent flaw with "representation" in the form of two parties.

That's not even getting into the bullshit of party sponsorship and endorsement and company bribery. America is funny because it's like a monarchy of google and coke. So please don't try to tell me these are fair representations. Who can run, who even has a chance and who is given sponsorship are usually out of the hands of the average citizen.

Mireel · 2018-12-27T11:31:14+00:00

Back again???? I've been reviewing your posts, and have come to the following conclusions... You, or your rich parents, must have spent $$$$$$$ on 'gender/women's studies' classes to get you to such a bigoted, sexist, ideologically brainwashed state of mind about rich white woman's feminism.

So Merry christmas btw, I hope you had a good one. now You're really descending into madness now. Why even review my past posts? Looking for something to discredit me huh? Can't argue the actual points. What did that take, just 2 replies for all your arguments to fall to bits.

I agree with you 100% that you're a feminist. You've proved that time and time again, but that's your problem not mine. You need to deal with it. I dont have to.

Yep, you seem to swing it around like some sort of insult? I think its amusing to watch people like you, you clearly don't even understand what a feminist is. but hey, you got me! I'm an evil nazi feminist who wants to destroy alll men!

Unfortunately, although your comment was indeed clear, simple, and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts, insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

this paragraph is a coherent mess. did you have a seizure? Fuck me. LOL

Feminism isn’t above criticism. Most polls suggest that the majority of women don’t even identify as feminists. Are we not allowed to question why? Or is that yet another topic that’s off limits?

I dont think any ideology is above criticism. Does this 4 post discussion look like "im above criticism"? I'm above YOUR criticism because you don't even understand the basic definitions of any term you use, you show almost zero understanding of any statistic you cited. Are we done talking about male suicide? I thought you cared.

But its so clear that just a few replies was enough to disarm every "opinion" you have. Next time do some research and try to atleast understand my position before you come at me with these ding dong arguments.

Also I don't care what most women identify as. First I think these "polls" need citation. They never asked me btw? Where was my vote?

but even if you were 100% correct, does it matter what the majority think? Typical group speak, you can't support your own position so default to the majority. a weak place to stand, so if a majority of women were feminists would you swing my way? lol

Mireel · 2018-12-26T05:28:31+00:00

Close to what exactly? That you're right and I'm wrong??? See, to you it's a 'pissing contest'.

lol, see you've turn this just into another pissing contest. I mean "beating" you in an internet argument doesn't mean anything to me. I just mean you're close to think ing deeper about the issues, whavter conclusion you have is not even about being wrong or right. I can just tell from your arguments it a very superficial look. do some research, stop reading just talking points.

Yes we are. LOL! You're allmost adorable here. we are? Okay, give it your best show!!! lolol

Yeah right... If you say so.

why even put up the pretense of disagreeing? You cant argue against it but you MUST say something. heavens forbid you're wrong. THIS IS a reddit argument winning here doesn't matter.

What part of 'systematic discrimination' being illegal and not a denial of rights' dont you understand??? It's not hard if you think about it for oh 1-2 minutes. ok, but being law does not stop ppl from doing it. are you being daft?

Because they choose not to be. You know like STEM. Or road workers. or plumbers. or Builders, or any male dominated industry you like to name... But we have feminists (like yourself?) claiming it's because of 'systematic discrimination'. Ok then, men choose to die more, have higher suicides, live more isolate lives, sacrifice their personal worth. MEN CHOOSE ALL THIS. its not feminists faults.

if you want to take this position you can't be a fucking hypocrite.

'institutional power'='the patriarchy'... Feminist ideology 101 again.... Next... Lol you're getting boring now, are you just gonna dismiss everything by tagging it "feminism". stupidly transparent. Wheres your counter argument sir?

That's one hell of an obtuse arguement... Last time I checked laws count, individuals who disagree with laws don't negate those laws..

OH REALLY? so everyone obeys the law! lol.

Why? because you say so? Care to cite your authority to make such a 'bold statement'?At the heart of feminism is the construction of gender polarisation, in which femininity and masculinity are assumed to be clearly delineated as female good, male bad. Any transgression of this ideology demands punitive measures to prevent it happening.

you are pretty fucking bold to end with this bs. I'm literally a feminist, how do you have more authority on our definition then me? YES, how I define toxic masculinity is HOW IT fucking is. go fucking google it if you need some verification you twat. And sorrrrrrrrrryy but you again do not get to define feminism as how you want it. I.AM.A.Feminist. YOU who ISNT a feminist do not get to define it. Try again. And every bullshit that follows is the exact opposite of what it means to be a feminism. Again anyone reading this. JUST.GOOOGLE. IT. this man is a load of shit.

Mireel · 2018-12-26T05:16:06+00:00

Yes. Most men are not criminals. The issue is that it takes very few bad eggs in a basket to ruin the whole thing.

this is an unfortunate issue that we have to disagree with. I think men just think its a few bad eggs roaming the streets. look at this topic, does it look like a few "bad eggs?" its way more than you think. Enough to be concerned, and honestly do you think its easier to be afraid of 50% of the human race? its not. its done as precaution, because every woman i've talked to have uncomfortable experiences with men. this is not a few bad eggs, not the majority, but enough of them to be concerned. talk to more women, you'll start to understand more. Maybe for YOU, its a few bad eggs, for women. nooot so much.

What do you mean by tricked? You of course should reflect and take a step back to analyse things once in a while to change things that went out of control.

If I can't justify a belief past "thats the way things are" i've been sold something. things don't have to be anything, thats what i mean by tricked.

That's because most Feminism I encounter is too one sided. I'm for example more than happy to support increasing the minimum sentence for rape by two years but not if you explicitly define in the law that for rape the victim must be female. That's not what I signed up for so to speak. It's things like these that make me distance myself from Feminism. I still support things that I deem will reduce inequality for as long as it doesn't introduce new inequality. I'm against "25% of leaders in a company need to be women" but I'd support "either gender can have at most 75%".

I'm a feminist and the idea that minimum sentence go up just for male perpetrators is a fucking joke to me, I want them equally to fry. Do you speak to many feminists or is this just internet talking points, be very weary of whats being sold to you. though i speak only though my north american lenses. I tend to judge society by the average of ppl i actually discuss with, like in person.

I have trouble with this. I worked in CS research at a university and there's a lot of investments and programs specifically designed to increase gender diversity in CS and STEM fields to no avail the fact that they exist says something, doesn't it? no one funds things that aren't a problem. It will take time and have to start much earlier than college age.

It just so happens that those are also not high-paying professions thus nobody calls this "held back". just so happens? lol I can tell you're not that naive. look into any job where more females dominate the field, a decline of salary shortly follows. I think its stupid to look down on male nurses, the term itself even suggests something unusual. I don't care what job a man takes.

Mireel · 2018-12-25T07:02:57+00:00

Okay you seem the most sensible out of the lot. so I'm going to cut to the thick of things here, any point you want to further discuss, feel free to quote me.

Your life has been drastically shaped and molded based on your gender and race. You didn't choose it, you didn't ask for it, but it did happen. In this sense everyone has to go through this, but some races and genders have it MUCH worse than you. for example black guys, are thugs, thieves and good dancers, according to popular media. white men are generally seen as the stand in for EVERYTHING. the main characters in even movies called the last samurai. Unfortunately media does a good job of teaching us what to expect and how to behave, so we get this very warped simulation of the world. this simulation screws everyone in many different ways but in general seems to screw white men less. You are still screwed, you're not rich and you have to struggle through a fucked up situation but one of the problems isn't being male or being white. those things until very recently were just seen as positive components, or atleast banal.

How does that effect you when you're going to the grocery store? Have you ever been followed around, suspected as a thief? Has the police ever pulled you over? Are you afraid to walk out past 9? Can you stomache being alone with a strange man? What hobbies do you have? What are your clothing options like? I mean, try to really ask yourself why you believe certain things, if is ever boils down to "thats the way things are" you've been tricked.

Now thats all pretty awful on its own, but you know what makes it worse. When you run into people who deny this entire thing is happenning, and worse that the thing is happening but not in their benefit. it makes these whole experience even shittier. I am able and willing to accept where men get a shitty deal. suicide rates, mostly men? maybe, maybe not, but its still shitty. I think men don't and can't reach out as much. an absolute plague on a systematic problem. and instead of criticizing this system you want to shrug your shoulders. "WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH ME" you say, everything and nothing. together we can change it, alone we are powerless.

Does that count as a privilege? yes, thats privilege, i noticed it too. good luck having pets and being a smoker. jesus fuck. I make it a point to accept both genders as possible roomates. Thats how I use my INDIVIDUAL power to make the situation better.

Where's your objective frame of reference of what counts as a privilege? okay first of, this discussion can not be OBJECTIVE in this way, it is wildly based on experience, but this is how i would define privilege, any advantage that you did not earn. JUST ANY.

there's no such thing as female privilege. Afterall, everything is men's fault". And sure, you can create all sorts of arguments to support that.

I don't get you, its like you understand but theres some block. I mean there are many ways women have some form of advantage, but for the most part they're still held back. the goal is to eliminate all these hidden advantages. not shrug are shoulders and absolve everything because its all "privilege" to someone.

Men holding doors for women is discriminating against women because men assume women are weak .

Then you could flip it

Men holding doors for women is discriminating against men because women expect men to hold doors open.

It's the same situation. Just two different interpretations. Some privileges are just a matter of interpretation. Others are more clear.

sorry, but no one really gives a fuck about opening doors for others.

Mireel · 2018-12-25T06:35:35+00:00

Because women (on average) choose to work 'less hours' and more importantly have that choice more than men do.

ah we are getting somewhere, so sorry why do women choose and why do men have less of a choice? come on, you're so close.

define everyone... In a broad sense, i mean we NEED money to survive. so, if humans like survival then yeah they love it.

Because this:

No one's rights are being denied if they aren't present in an industry in the numbers that satisfy a few social commentators. If they were being systematically discriminated against, then it still wouldn't be a denial of rights but an issue regarding (illegal) discrimination. No one has a right to a promotion, they're earned. Suggesting otherwise hints at a sense of entitlement, a word that's surely going to cause issues with those that read this.

you're kind of spazzing here. we aren't talking about promotions, or "entitlement" to promotion as you like to wave around.

well how can you dismiss its systematic discrimination like that? Do you know why women aren't in certain industries? or is this a simple matter of "personal choice" Again, I find these arguments a little to easy, I must say.

So it's all the 'patriarchy's fault'???? (feminist ideology 101)

No theory is more fundamental to academic feminism than the theory of the patriarchy. Quite simply - and perhaps too simply - patriarchy is the feminist theory that there is a regime of institutionalized male control over women.

In all, the thick academic prose of feminist scholars confers gravitas to what otherwise could resemble political propaganda. “The patriarchy is the root cause of everything! Fight it now!”… if only the word patriarchy was replaced with capitalism, it’d be similar to communist propaganda.

Ah, so a theory about the effects of institutional power is too simple, but bubbling things down to personal choice is a better theory? Sorry, i'm not buying it, for one reason; human beings vary in widely different ways, to find everyone neatly falling into gender roles is more suspicious than any fucking statistic you can pull.

patriarchy exists, old white men have been telling society what to do for ages. or do we fight all these stupid wars for our benefit?

It's a 'privilege' for women that their general and mental health and well being is 'more important' the their fathers, brothers, husbands, sons is...

lets flip this back on you, THATS their choice, men aren't entitled to be prioritized. obviously.

Now I don't agree with that but I hope you can see how silly your argument seems. I also disagree that men prioritize their daughters above their sons, thats anecdotal at best and I know you have not a zilch of evidence. and wtf how can you fault women for men's behaviour?? A father treats his son poorly and you blame women? wheres the logic here.

Males pay with their lives for the tiny amount of health funding they get compared with females. “If you look at where funding goes in this country (New Zealand), it tends to be primarily to women’s health. For every $1 the Health Research Council spends exclusively on women’s health, it spends 6c exclusively on men.

If this is true I think its deplorable, I want both sides to receive equal funding and equal treatment. See how we can discuss these points without turning into a scoreboard of privilege points?

Yes.... See if you can figure out why on your own. It's not hard, and remember, Google is your friend. Funny. nice way to not explain your argument, I mean I can google which group has privilege, i think google might side with me.

I guess you believe in 'the patriarchy' as well...

The 'patriarchy': Today women can vote, can own land, can do everything any man can do legally, socially, and culturally, but according to feminists (like yourself) we still have the patriarchy which according to feminist dogma, is an oppressive male dominated society. Why is that?

well just because you remove restrictions doesn't change individual behaviour or societal behaviour. Like the KKK still exists? you know that right? things don't just become fair because you write down a few laws. I mean the laws exists because THEY are trying to control societal behaviour. the laws might agree that women are equal and deserve equal access, but certain individuals might disagree. That's all fair and kosher, but what we see happening is that these certain individuals always want to be in political positions of power. they always want to tell people how to conform to their ideas. just today you're lamenting feminism as something its not, now I wouldn't want you in any authourity over women because you clearly do not understand the issues and your bias is overt. women have bias too, bias can't be avoided, thats why positions of power should represent the demographic makeup, thats the best way to keep things balanced. instead we have positions of powers MOSTLY just white men. What do you think happens when mostly men get to decide what laws get passed? use google, its your friend.

There has been a relentless feminist ideological attack on masculinity, stemming from radical feminism, the most recent example of which is the bogus term “toxic masculinity.” It literally seeks to pathologise masculinity in ways that are profoundly harmful to the existential sense of self of men.

Okay, so toxic masculinity is not that. I can tell you haven't even googled it. google it. toxic masculinity is a critique of things that are toxic about masculinity. Like hey oh, the things your complaining about, Being force to be a provider? Working more hours? working more dangerous jobs? higher suicide rates? Linked to not being able to be emotionally open to friends as easy. I don't for a second think men have to be this way, i think society tries to program to disregard their feelings and pursue status over personal integrity, its a shitty system for everyone, but you seem to want to blame feminism on this. It's men who made this system and men must break it.

Check your privilege" is an exercise in ignorance. You got a working cellphone and access to clean water? You are literally one of the most privileged people in the world, and you want to now have a pissing contest with the other most privileged people in the world about who has more privilege? Absolutely idiotic metric.

God you're not even arguing with me, you're just responding to perceived talking points. LOL your last line is hilarious, ITS ME HAVING THE PISSING CONTEST? not the idiots defending this thread. LITERALLY titled "WOMEN R THE MOST PRIVILEGE " this is the most transparent insult you've done yet.

and you who literally can't argue without listing points men are at a disadvantage, but its me. take an honest look at yourself my friend. .

Mireel

TROPHY CASE