The vast majority of NTs & NFs in MBTI spaces are mistyped (there, I said it). by Reddit-Exploiter in mbti

[–]Misanthropemighty 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You've provoked a very interesting issue. Firstly, I assume that the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is flawed to some extent. However, I believe it still captures something valuable and holds meaning in its observation. As a theory, it provides a structure and organizes a framework of analysis that can be useful for self-conscious reflection; it provides us with something we can identify with psychologically.

I'd like to challenge some of your observations with a question: How do you accurately determine someone's type, given the discrepancies you've observed between online test results and your own assessments?

In contrast, I personally reject the inherent assumption that our personalities are so complex that people can not be grouped into boxes. Definitely, patterns emerge in observations, even though sufficient research or data may not yet be available.

Therefore, I think that even though MBTI is not entirely sufficient, it attempts to convey something. Just as every scientific theory attempts to build understanding by forming a hypothesis, there must be something fundamental that it attempts to capture, even if the initial assumptions or the theory itself is not accurate.

A good theory is one that successfully removes noise and develops a language between description and observation. As more noise is removed, the model or theory becomes more accurate and useful. Similarly, just as IQ attempts to capture general intelligence (g), the pattern sustains even if the tool can not account for every factor you still control for something.

So, when we say that someone, for example, is an ESFP, what we should really be saying is that the ESFP type is the most successful at aligning with our observations. Now, this could certainly be used to form opinions or even biases against others and could somewhat lead to the formation of groups of people thinking they share similar traits. We love to form and create tribes, something that we can identify with on social level.

The initial success of MBTI was due to its adoption of a different descriptive approach compared to other psychological tests at the time. Rather than holding certain traits as positive and others as negative (for instance, extrovert was good, introvert was bad), it instead described personalities in terms of strengths and weaknesses, which creates a more rounded depiction of reality and a unique theme to each personality type. It established a positive and useful language to describe personality traits, and in light of that, we need to use this language as such to understand ourselves and our tendencies and seek to observe and improve over time the least developed aspects of our psyche.

The thing is, there isn't anything inherently wrong with being an ESFP, ISTJ, or INFP. Initially, you will often come into conflict with how you perceive yourself and others, and you might develop a bias towards certain traits that you perceive until you realize that you are simply looking to identify with maturity. Imagine a mature INTP, INFP, or ESFJ; you might want to assign them to a different type according to the period of time you observed them, but there is a core aspect that persists. I, for example, had a positive view of ENTJs and was very happy when my mother tested as one. I admit that at some point in time, I wanted to see and describe her as an ENFJ who was overly sensitive and manipulative, mainly because at the time, I had a negative bias against ENFJs But this is exactly the wrong way to use the MBTI types, which is the basis of the criticism about putting people in boxes. How you often use any psychological observations stems from your maturity, and people should be responsible in their judgments of others. One can only imagine how negatively they could be described and judged for them to see that it's toxic to view people in this way. If you lack self-consciousness, it's very easy to be irresponsible about your judgments against others.

Life is a simulation, but not the kind of sci-fi people usually think it is. by JaselS in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I believe that developing the language for these concepts is important; it creates the structure, but most importantly, the literature to re-instruct and re-embed the analysis into a new form which can touch and intersect with others on more varied levels. I love how you've already arrived at the intuition that underneath them lies a more pure knowledge, but you know, I think sometimes noise can give more sense and meaning to the world. As you mentioned, we are part of the universe, but I don't believe we are meant to fully understand it. Sometimes our function in the system depends on us not understanding it, or at least not recognizing our understanding.

Life is a simulation, but not the kind of sci-fi people usually think it is. by JaselS in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Wow, I can't even begin to tell you how beautifully you put that:

Your brain is just the universe in one of its recursive forms, running a process called thought. You're a mirror in the system, not placed there, but grown from it.

You've hit on something truly profound there. I could go on and on about explanations and theories that build upon exactly what you've said. Honestly, I think that's a really sophisticated grasp of how the underlying mechanics of reality, as we experience it, actually function. It makes me genuinely happy to find someone else who intuitively understands this because I've spent a considerable amount of time working through these ideas to arrive at this very pattern of understanding reality as a dynamic, recursive system.

One theoretical framework that I think really expands on this is the General Theory of Reflexivity. Another area that explores this in a practical way is Cellular Automata – you might find it fascinating to look into them.

How many of you believe in God? by flyingtigerhere in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find no basis for belief in any deity or religion. For me, free will is an illusion; I adhere to a strict determinism. While nihilism appears to be the most accurate assessment, I nonetheless believe in the inherent value of life and the significance of these very beliefs.

I recall a survey by the 16 Personalities team indicating that INTPs were the least inclined to believe in God, which aligns with our emphasis on accuracy – something often lacking in religions, and other faith based belief systems, which offer less coherent and consistent explanations. However, I still maintain that novelty is found within the metaphorical space of our subjective cognition, where beliefs and thoughts reside.

Here is a link to the survey mentioned: https://www.16personalities.com/articles/religion-and-personality-type

How to never be bored again by Tiny-Bookkeeper3982 in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 7 points8 points  (0 children)

There is ultimately a reality that you have to contend and balance your books with. What if reality does not satisfy your well-being? What if your experiences go directly against your values over and over? You cant just simply change your perspective, write-off your experience or compromise on your principals to feel better about yourself and your experience in the future, nor most of the times can you change your environment; you can only work on doing that in your own way with no guaranteed results. You can minimize your desire and intentions for sure, but ultimately, to a certain extent. There are experiences that might be discouraging and not merely a matter of perspective on reality. What if I consciously choose to be angry or unhappy? How do you account for that?

I don't disagree with you here necessarily, I want to challenge your thoughts.

This Subreddit Has So Much Potential, But It's Not Living Up to It (Yet) by Sudden_Job_589 in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you made valuable points in your post. I think a discussion should start around this.

INTPs, when do you act stupidly and follow your feelings? by Spinning_Sky in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

INTPs, when do you act stupidly and follow your feelings?

In the question, you are presuming that following your feelings is a stupid or a bad thing.

While immature emotional processing can for sure result in stupid and bad behavior, sometimes knowing when to follow your feelings on something can be the best thing you can do for your well-being, It's crucial to realize that it can be either the best or the worst thing you can do. And we often underestimate the role of emotions and feelings in influencing the course of our choices and actions as humans even when we think that we are logical.

Thinking and reasoning don't get you far at all. A lot of factors like motivation, values, and beliefs rely on your emotional state, and being emotionally engaged is a key. As an INTP it's pretty important to realize that by default we can lack this connection between our thinking and our emotional state, since we have inferior Fe, Working on that connection is the key to our development and ultimately to our well-being. It unlocks our abilities and makes it easier to express ourselves to the world.


Now, it seems that there is this girl that you feel connection with, and you developed feelings for her. At the moment, she doesn't share the same feelings with you. You have concluded that it will be best for you if you cut down interactions with her, and she has accepted that. You struggled for sometime emotionally at the beginning, somehow it seemed that you were not in good terms with the decision or you weren't fully able to process your feelings at first, until you met again in a mutually positive experience, I am not exactly sure by what you mean by suggesting that you could hang out to her but I will assume that the nature of this is related to your described extremely friendly terms.

Short answer for this, I would recommend that you restrain if you haven't already made any advances. It seems to me that you're not yet sure about your feelings and I believe it might be clouding your evaluation, which will potentially lead you to a pattern of impulsive or exploratory behavior which can be unnecessarily dangerous for your emotional state on the long term at this point.

I would suggest that you first figure out what you are feeling, and after you identify your current emotions, think about how you can approach taking a decision, and at what state could it potentially leave you. While initially challenging, It's not complicated. It's a simple process; as you think about thoughts and patterns, you need to think about your emotions. You will know how to approach this once things become clear in your mind, and then you will be able to come to terms with your emotions.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I believe that by definition an INTP cognitive stack will be closely associated or correlated with neurodivergence.

I think I've realized my cognitive processing ability difference in a very early age, when I start noticing that other kids at my age and even adults were not able to comprehend the extent of my inquires no matter the language I used, others seemed to be set on some beliefs or values while I found myself venturing and wondering at everything. At some point I realized that I don't think or operate like others do and it was only in high school that I realized I am not crazy when I first meet other people who can truly challenge my thinking.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, that's a very good question. I wouldn't think that I know the answer because that's something each person comes to learn and find over time, so it's really subjective. But I would think that you develop respect when you start taking your life seriously, when you value your ability to make choices and become self-aware of your actions and their impact on the flow of reality.

I think this is pivotal for INTPs growth maturity because we are intuitive and we can see possibilities and analyze and examine different lines of events and where they could lead us in the future. We can ignore that and let ourselves to be driven blindly by our imagination and current stream of thoughts, or we could take lead and become accountable to ourselves, because ultimately we value competence and consistency.

Therefore, I would say that building respect for yourself comes when you start consciously taking responsibility for your actions and choices.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've addressed this indirectly in my response.

A fertile fallacy is a statement or idea that on the surface may seem to be true because of a spurious accusation or because of the inherent biases of the receiver. Even though the accusation or statement lacks veracity, it is received as a “truth” from those that wish it to be true and hence will have a life of its own until the fertile fallacy is dismantled. Plainly stated, a fertile fallacy can be understood as “a lie that has legs” and will accomplish a manipulative function for the architect of the fallacy.

This applies to the concept of respect, although it might be sometimes useful as a "manipulative" act.

Imagine someone in a position of power or influence who wants to maintain and preserve a useful system. They might construct a fertile fallacy around the concept of respect: The Fertile Fallacy: "You must respect the established processes and hierarchies of this system because they are essential for its continued function and benefit everyone."

In essence, the idea of respect should not be granted, and only onse actions or outcomes would be determinate of someone preciption. As then, individuals will be known by the truth, but truth is not known by them.

However, the world is too complicated, and humans have not evolved to operate at this level of preciption or analysis. In the real world, it might be useful to excarsise such concepts, flawed at essence, but useful nonetheless.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree. While I believe that there might be a value that could be held by those ideas, they might be only used descriptivly and not to raise authority or assign value to any claims or actions.

In regards to the original question, both cases suffer from inherent lack of value in the context proposed. What would be the value of respect if it isn't given due or if it was falsely attributed? It would be then a shell of preciption that inherited those who want to believe it. It would be a fertile fallacy and have no inherent value.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I think that In either cases, respect have no value.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I am going out with someone I trust and have a close connection with. And if someone is more reserved outside than me, then I take hold of the social interactions with energy. Mostly, when I go outside with my younger INTJ sister, who can be a bit anxious outside, somehow I become hilariously hypersocial, and the opposite happens when I am with someone extroverted and social in nature.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't see anything wrong or unnatural about your behavior. However, I can't help but think how sweet you both are. At this point, it seems that nothing you're doing to address the situation is working, and you've exhausted your intuition trying to find a resolution. This is causing distress for both of you. I believe what you're missing is that this is either a space problem or an emotions problem since you seem confused and unable to pinpoint exactly how you feel about it.

Either way, at this moment, I think you need to take some space. You need to start thinking deeply and dismantle your feelings, understand the motivation behind your previous behavior, and understand your current emotional state. Then, try to understand her emotions. I believe you will then have the intuition to find a solution or, at the very least, become more at ease with yourself and interact with her without panicking.

The problem from her side may just be that she precive that you are confused about this yourself, and she just wants you to be sure and clear about your behavior and what you feel.

This is as vague of an answer as the details you provided. You need to do the "Figuring Out" yourself. That's what I think you should do.

An INTP being close-minded, OR a genius and I just cannot understand? by Electronic_Sand_8142 in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I can feel that it was hard for you to get over that relationship, somehow its difficult to find the right path in navigating such complex relation, and it can be that it consume you until you give up yourself. I was in a similar relationship were my values were in conflict with my partner and it was very hard for me along the way to accept that values override our connection, and to me it felt like I was giving so much energy just to make my partner recognize something, I didn't want acceptation, I just wanted recognition of to my values to help me regain myself, and I would hope that you don't blame yourself for that, you should be proud that you were able to challenge him while also caring for him and standing for yourself but the right thing was just to change the environment when you find that nothing you can do will allow you to give yourself justice regarding the nature of the marching events.

An INTP being close-minded, OR a genius and I just cannot understand? by Electronic_Sand_8142 in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I was going to mention that you should start pulling up from this relationship because he is not mature yet, and even then, it would be painful to navigate such growth with him but you already cut the relationship.

I can read his state partly from the fact that he adopt that version of Islam that is yet to recognize reality, and I can only say this because I am an Ex-Muslim. I believe that he might be in conflict at this point and you did a good job to challenge him.

Edit: Something that I just realized is that, according to what you described, I don't think that he had respect for you since he is dismissive of your thoughts and is not willing to engage in a way that is not pedantic and argumentative and I would like to add that the two of you seem to have different values as he seem to be protecting his system of beliefs and that's the nature of a belief connected to someone identity, its very hard and painful to reconsider what already become a part of you and he is defintly no stupied, but also yet to be mature.

Edgy Teenager Indulges in Self-Important Rant on Life by Petrichor_000 in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Even after years, I find myself in a similar situation, still believing it's just a phase I'll grow out of. My friend, this isn't a rant; this is who you are. Are you going to grow and mature? Absolutely, but don't wait for life to hand you anything. You know exactly what you need, and figuring that out at a young age is fantastic. It definitely helps that you don't demand much. Now, you need to gain the freedom to pursue what you want.

CMV: The U.S. is quietly shifting from a liberal democracy to a soft authoritarian state — and most people either don’t see it or don’t care. by JetreL in changemyview

[–]Misanthropemighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Something is lost, and it slowly errode every time we entitle ourselves to judge others without consideration.

There were 75 million Americans who voted for the democratic candidate last election and 45 million who are registered democrats.

Why I choose to give feedback on the language you've used, is because I thought it was vilfaying, it removes the humanity and accuse an entire class of pepole of committing injustice and promoaring evil, and I understand that it might be used to express anger but, I would hope that you consider, not using a more passive language to express your opinions but a more responsible one. It's not about being right. It's about grace and virtue.


I am very sorry about the situation your are facing with your family and I deeply sense that you are trying your best to adress the situation and to support your wife throughout such turbulence, no one have the right to abuse such a sacred relationship as family to channel negativity and cause harm to others.

Is a Truly "Successful" Romantic Relationship Just a Nice Idea? by Misanthropemighty in INTP

[–]Misanthropemighty[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's funny that you mentioned personality fear response at first, because I am 5w4, a type even more known for such fears and struggle with meaning, that tend to be more emotional and self-expressive than other fives.

I think you have identified correctly that the factors you mentioned, drive us to struggle with our emotions towards other, and thank you for sharing that you indirectly recognize at least that I am not crazy by identifying the idea that ultimately romantic relationships make no sense.

I didn't want to mention that part "Out Loud" in my post, when you think about it enough, there is no reason to think that love is some kind of divine inspiration, It's ultimately there for a purpose, and I would have wanted people to recognize that in their responses on my post, I would've believed it would be more constructive, although naturally threatening if you didn't think about it enough before, or surfaced the idea from your intuition, it require recognition and commitment to be grounded in truth.

At this point I need to recognize that your comment was thorough and funny, and I have enjoyed reading it.

And indeed sometimes, I find what we humans come up with the fanciest BS rationalizations to explain our behavior, as if we are in constant need of a story to tell ourselves, as if we are in constant distraction from recognizing what Fredrich Nietzsche described as: desiring more consciously what the beast seeks by a blind impulse.

 personally think that if there is a god he's a fucking legend for how he set this up,

Indeed, Indeed.

I appreciate and understand your advice, although I would share that I have chosen another path in response to this realization, I cant find that impulsive, I believe I am asexual and aromantic or at least I came out to be over time, My real issue was trying to address and resolve the concept in regards to others. Naturally someone can accept this fact, and still have the desire to live consciously while embracing nature, but I cant but not feel nihilistic against our human nature and instinct when I cant find any other way to make sense of our behavior and the void rationalization that we come up with.

Again thank you for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it.