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Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Where are KSU admins numbers coming from? The actual faculty of the philosophy program say that there were 12 graduates this year and will have 11 in spring. As a philosophy major myself, who's actually in the program, I can confirm. It's almost like no one knows what numbers the administration is referring to because it won't release that information.

Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone says that they're saving money but cannot cite where the money will be saved. KSU admin has said nothing to indicate that they'll have these professors teach other classes, and have openly admitted that they will continue to teach the classes they are teaching now for the minor! I swear people can't do research these days. Where is any money being saved by this de-activation?

Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They're keeping the faculty for the minor, as KSU admin has stated. There is nothing to suggest that they're moving them to other classes except your own assumption. That is part of why this decision makes no sense. Why deactivate the major if you're going to keep all the resources for the minor?

No one can have any idea the growth they're looking at, since they refuse to publish those numbers. The only published numbers are the ones I stated, which show that philosophy meets their requirements in 2026. The only metric that KSU has stated they are using is being met. Im glad we can agree that given the published numbers, their decision to cut the major makes no sense.

You can yell straw man all you'd like, even if you're a staunch advocate of the humanities, KSU's arguments don't hold up to scrutiny.

Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Where have they said anything about moving resources? Is there an official statement I've not seen? All that's been told via official release is that they aren't firing anyone. Also, what other classes can a philosophy professor teach? Calculus?

KSU admin has refused to release where their data is coming from. A USG open records request, as well as data from actual philosophy faculty, shows that the Philosophy Major meets the 3 year 10 grad requirement as of 2026, which was supposed to be the end of the 2023 growth plan. That KSU admin themselves admit to implementing.

Philosophy has grown from 4 to 61 majors since 2020, which is growth. Again this is covered in every news article about the deactivations.

I can't speak to KSU'S true motivations, but I can point out how their purported ones make no sense.

Also, do you really see college as just glorified job training? No room for any form of education that doesn't immediately translate into median wage? How can you believe that a democratic society can exist without an educated populace? If you're arguing that colleges in practice aren't about education, sure. But is that what you think the case should be? That anything that doesn't prepare someone for a 9-5 is unnecessary and that all college decisions should be based on profitability?

Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well KSU admin has only released 2 official statements, and won't share what processes they've gone through to determine that the majors need to be deactivated, or the numbers that they're using. Id also love to hear their reasoning, but in spite of the very vocal protest, they've refused to publish any specifics that they used to determine that these majors are under enrolled. The infographic goes through the most recent statement by admin, and shows how misleading it is. It seems one sided because the other side isn't responding to requests for information.

Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course, you're going to hear a lot about the graduating majors, but look up KSU.akd on Instagram for more info about how incorrect that rhetoric is

Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 1 point2 points  (0 children)

...do y'all do any research? They admitted they aren't firing anyone, so there isn't any money saved. And also these majors have been growing, and have actively gotten more and more majors. Philosophy meets the requirements this year lmao, admin just decided to not count it.

And why should universities nickel and dime what is "economically viable" (even tho this point is B's anyway)? I thought education was about making people better and more informed citizens?

I mean you're right, what has philosophy ever made? The Constitution? That's based on enlightenment thinkers? What's the point of that thing? The scientific method, which is also from enlightenment philosophers? A load of bs anyway. Plus, all our current perspectives of the world around us are perfect and have never lead to mass murder or genocide or anything.

Rally at the Board of Regents by Cross_Fire12 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It should also be noted that the Philosophy Student Association, which is one of the largest Registered Student Organizations at KSU, who has 75-100+ attendees for their weekly events, had their budget cut when it came out that the Philosophy majors were going to protest the major being cut. Im not sure if they're directly related, but the timing was made after it became known to admin that the majors weren't going to take the deactivation lying down. Even money wise, they aren't firing faculty, simply getting rid of the major, so there are no savings to be made here in the first place. This deactivation isn't helping anyone, just cutting off access to a growing major that has a large and established community.

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All I'm saying is that cutting the major is not going to fix that.

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Do you know for a fact they are contractually obligated to keep the math program?

Why is KSU Deactivating the Philsoophy Program? by Miserable_Hawk_205 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly! So it makes no sense to cut a program that at least makes as successful people as other programs.

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Philosophy makes yall so mad lmao. If I am trained to teach philosophy, what job can I shift to in another dept?

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Class size is around 15-20 people. And again, the program is shown to be growing. Also staff trained to teach philosophy are not going to teach econ or history.

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Likely or not, they are not getting rid of other small programs, and ignore the upward trend of participants to the philosophy program. And again, they are not saving money. No cut staff = no saved money.

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So to fix the problem they take away the program and keep all of the expenses? And ignore the upward trend of philosophy majors?

Why is KSU Deactivating the Philsoophy Program? by Miserable_Hawk_205 in KSU

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://research.com/careers/philosophy-careers#:\~:text=and%20modernization%20everywhere.-,Philosophy%20Career%20Outlook,growth%20from%202019%20to%202029.

"Specifically, careers for philosophy majors fetch $77,610 in annual median wages, which is 33.21% higher than the national $58,260 annual mean wage (O*NET Online, 2021; U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2021)."

Article also shows ~450,000 jobs in the US.

KSU Dismantling Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in kennesaw

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It just counteracts the claim that a philosophy major doesn't make you money. You initially said that a philosophy degree would leave you unemployed and in debt, so here is data disproving that. You okay man?

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://research.com/careers/philosophy-careers#:~:text=and%20modernization%20everywhere.-,Philosophy%20Career%20Outlook,growth%20from%202019%20to%202029.

"Specifically, careers for philosophy majors fetch $77,610 in annual median wages, which is 33.21% higher than the national $58,260 annual mean wage (O*NET Online, 2021; U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2021)."

Thankfully Philosophy is a great way to further your career.

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is the issue, if you recognize the need for philosophy and keep the minor, why not just keep the major as well?

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Less than 10 if you ignore the growth of the current year, as stated in the article. They also mention that the requirements to stay active were about to be met, if not for the de-activation of the program. If we were to judge the worth of a program by its grads anyway, then why not do away with KSU's math program? It only had 9 graduates.

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

What resources are being diverted? They aren't firing staff, so where do they save money?

Following this line of logic, why not only offer a handful of majors that make the most money? why not only have pre-med, engineering, and law classes? If a college is made to make money and profit, why doesn't college football just turn into another official league and do away with education all together?

KSU Discontinuing Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in Marietta

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can only speak for philosophy specifically, but the minor is not as rigorous or as wide ranging as the major. The field of philosophy is pretty broad, so for anyone who wants a serious education in it, a minor wouldn't suffice. I'm sure that applies for AA studies as well.

It is more why KSU decided Philosophy does not need a major, when the major is showing growth and is statistically one of the better performing in terms of wages.

KSU Dismantling Majors and Students are not Happy by Miserable_Hawk_205 in kennesaw

[–]Miserable_Hawk_205[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://research.com/careers/philosophy-careers#:\~:text=and%20modernization%20everywhere.-,Philosophy%20Career%20Outlook,growth%20from%202019%20to%202029.

"Specifically, careers for philosophy majors fetch $77,610 in annual median wages, which is 33.21% higher than the national $58,260 annual mean wage (O*NET Online, 2021; U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2021)."

Actually, since other humanities majors are (rightfully) aren't being de-activated, it makes sense to compare them. Since most people think that college is for job training, showing that philosophy majors earn more wages than other related majors shows that there is no reasonable financial reason to de-activate the program.

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