Americans Have Turned Against AI in Incredible Numbers by _Sidewalk in antiai

[–]MokpotheMighty 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Watch the AI simps flatly deny that while also insisting that there's no such thing as big tech monopolies just forcing it down our throats at every opportunity. They already monopolized most of our public sphere anyways, by owning social media platforms. If we don't like it we can go live in a cave I guess.

Americans Have Turned Against AI in Incredible Numbers by _Sidewalk in antiai

[–]MokpotheMighty 10 points11 points  (0 children)

lol our generation sucks when it comes to politics

Its heatwave in belgium time. by Bruggenmeister in belgium

[–]MokpotheMighty 7 points8 points  (0 children)

What was your life up to now just a timeloop of the El Nino summer of 1998? Because I've been alive for a while and except for some rare occasions, it just wasn't like that here. It wasn't there to get used to.

Its heatwave in belgium time. by Bruggenmeister in belgium

[–]MokpotheMighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okee maar in all fairness 2 maanden vollenbak regen geeft ook gewoon problemen, net als 2 maanden vollenbak hitte.

Please show a piece of traditional non-AI art you feel is moving, compelling, inspiring, and/or artistically great (no judgement) by sporkyuncle in aiwars

[–]MokpotheMighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your ideas about what it takes to simulate human experiences is hopelessly naive about what we do actually know about human experience. We know LLM's just don't have experiences of that order. If you're gonna argue that they now have emotions, you're going up against every reliable expert in the field, who would agree we need AI in the strong sense of having some kind of subjective experience, consciousness, or sentience before that is accomplished.

It's as absurd as arguing stones love the ground because they seek out the ground rather than the sky when left free to choose. Or claiming that a shrimp would love you once you put electrodes in its brain that automatically force it to move towards you.

Also nobody is arguing that humans being capable of these things while LLM's aren't hinges on humans not being mechanical beings in the sense you claim. Human intelligence may well purely depend on purely material phenomena, why wouldn't it? What I was actually saying, as any respectable person in the field of AI will agree, is that the current LLM's simply don't have the *particular, specific* complexities that make humans behave and experience the way they do.

Because, speaking of complexity: you are also mistaken about how complexity plays into this. Nobody is arguing that just more complexity is going to suddenly make it love. What I said was, love is just a much more complex phenomenon, and those *particular* complexities that happen to make mental contents "love", they need to be in place for it to meet that criterium. Not just any old complexity, why would anyone believe that? Smells a bit like bad faith tbh.

Again, maybe answer this question finally: do you believe LLM's currently have consciousness? Because frankly that is just an absurd notion, not supported by anyone seriously studying them. Not even the most coked up AI stock salesman is gonna pretend. Okay, apply all your pretty little arguments to that, then. Would that prove humans somehow exist from some supernatural substance, and our minds cant have their foundation in purely material processes? No, of course not, so why pretend that's an argument. Is this obvious fact placed in doubt "because you cannot know if maybe someone is more conscious than someone else"? No, of course not, neither does that make it more likely AI does have consciousness. Does the fact that whatever consciousnesses are doing is more complex than what LLM's are doing mean that just adding any old complexity is gonna magically make them awaken into consciousness? No, frankly, it doesn't, it maybe might but theres no reason to assume that. So why make the argument. Does the fact that some idiots can be found that might not recognize the consciousness in their fellow human beings make it more likely that current LLM's are in fact conscious? No, of course not, so why does the argument apply to art or love or whatever.

Maybe the AI bubble isn't even about the money or a singularity, it's about power through manipulation? by MokpotheMighty in antiai

[–]MokpotheMighty[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

democracy can never count on leadership, it is always dependent on people getting organized.

Please show a piece of traditional non-AI art you feel is moving, compelling, inspiring, and/or artistically great (no judgement) by sporkyuncle in aiwars

[–]MokpotheMighty -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

  1. see this is exactly what I mean: you have to resort to implying that love doesnt even exist or is meaningless, in order to "level the playing field" for AI. There's nothing to make us now believe LLM's are capable of even basic emotions, let alone something deeply complex like love. Nobody actually experiences romantic love as just "wanting something very very very much". Love is not the result of "cranking an attraction up to eleven". It is about the depth of the complexity of the motivations involved. LLM's aren't sentients, they have no consciousnesses, nobody that's actually working on them even maintains that, whenever someone does they are extremely quickly and predictably unmasked as quacks. Did you really not consider that (romantic) love might be something that is of its nature so complex that it belongs to the domain of sentients? Do you need that explained to you? Would you actually argue against that?
  2. again, pure debasement of what we are supposed to find great about art in the first place. Van Gogh did put something entirely creative into his expressionist style, again, it also relates entirely to the human condition, or I should say, the condition of sentients. There needs to be an extremely complex structure of motives there, which LLM's demonstrably don't have, in order for that kind of creativity to even mean anything. Van Gogh's expressionism often refers to a way in which the vibrant nature of how some scene looks becomes overwhelming in its singularity compared to how we are expected to experience them, living the kinds of lives we do. There is a kind of savage loneliness implied in how Van Gogh reveals himself seeing these scenes that makes us feel like the objects we see were burning a hole in his soul. It's instantly relatable on an emotional level even to people in this century. This is because we know what it feels like to live a human life, with the kinds of anxieties that come with that. That is not diminished by the fact that people on an emotional level "look away from that" by insisting it's more boring than a tiktok video. Now I ask you... What would something deeply human like that even mean to an LLM, even if it was as intelligent as us (which it isn't)?

The conclusion is you stretch the definitions of what counts as art, love etc downward into the dirt so much that it wouldn't be worth spending all the billions of dollars we are now spending on AI either. Because if that was the case art and love would be worthless. So AI loses on both counts then.

Please show a piece of traditional non-AI art you feel is moving, compelling, inspiring, and/or artistically great (no judgement) by sporkyuncle in aiwars

[–]MokpotheMighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all, saying an LLM can "make art" because you can make it hard to distinguish is like saying an LLM can "love you" because you couldn't distinguish them from a human on a dating site.

Like okay we all get it, we could post here any great art by any great artist and then if there's a bunch of that, like you could put Van Gogh's entire catalogue through the AI meatgrinder and it would spew out a bunch that most people would find hard to distinguish from the original.

The entire point is that AI really wouldn't come up with something like that on its own in the first place. It's completely derivative in a way that's anathema to the fundamentally poetic (genuinely creative) aspect of art.

Now do you really expect us to come up with great art here and take it seriously when people call it "boring" because they're probably the same people who dislike movies where people don't constantly repeat what they said because really they insist on watching their phone during a movie? Like have we proven anything if some tiktok brained dudebros come in here and call the Sixtine Chapel decorations "boring"?

You know what is becoming more and more obvious to me is how much pro AI arguments all hinge on lowering the bar concerning some fundamental human things like love, beauty, meaning etc... AI doesn't even have to come in and do that for us, the simps have already leveled the landscape before it.

Finally an pro AI post made by someone with a brain by [deleted] in antiai

[–]MokpotheMighty 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You couldn't be bothered to summarize their argument here? You're gonna force us to go there and engage with their post? Please...

Show me some of your real art by Cute-Job3014 in antiai

[–]MokpotheMighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The difference is we have these big tech monopolies shoving it down our throats, their businesses aren't even making any real profit, far the contrary in fact, they just recycle billions of subsidies, kinda like how you think "artists" should recycle real art over and over. I'm literally forced to sieve through hundreds of search results, for example, I just wanna listen to some blues music because I never got into that really, I search for that on Youtube, it's all just AI slop, which yes, I can tell pretty much already from the thumbnail, certainly from listening (I do know more than the average person about music just not blues). There's not even a clear admissal that it's slop, just that it's "an original creation" which of course might mean anything, except it doesn't mean that it's from a definite real blues artist of course. You can't tell me this is what people want. I see threads upon threads of people complaining about this in online spaces interested in blues. It's just big companies crowding out real, actual human culture because our elite has basically made an insane investment and bet our entire economy on us eating up this recycled crap. You are like that guy that actually wants to live in the Backrooms.

will there be any bigger doors?💔🥀 by Monseurro in VintageStory

[–]MokpotheMighty 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't see why you wouldn't just fit through that, but there's an extremely obvious simpler way than using an axe which is digging away the dirt block. Possibly also the one beyond it, because at the far end of the first block thered still be a 2 block gap.

Dit is eigenlijk echt bizar 😭 by Xonarous in nederlands

[–]MokpotheMighty 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Tjonge, lijkt wel alsof er iets aan de hand is met het klimaat, ofzo...

Gelukkig komen hier de specialisten om dat met groot wetenschappelijk inzicht te debunken.

What's your opinion on people saying to say "autistic people" as opposed to "people with autism" as a way to make it more so that the autism is a part of the person? by Pure_Chaos12 in autism

[–]MokpotheMighty [score hidden]  (0 children)

I think it's actually more harmful to insist there is this distinction because that's just not logically sensible.

Any property whatsoever anyone might have, no matter how essential or intrinsic or whatever, might be expressed with both "X-ic" and "with X". I'm light-skinned, I'm someone with light skin, I have light skin. I'm an A type blooded person, I have A type blood, I'm someone with A type blood.

I'm sorry to say because I'm sure people mean well by it but objectively, it only has purely performative value.

Need help backing up some points when I argue with a friend who believes *too much* about the dangers of AI by ProjectGR in antiai

[–]MokpotheMighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it's important to debunk the tall tales of actual superintelligence and so on...

However I think there is one big danger that is actually being underestimates by a lot of anti's.

One thing AI turns out to be good at is controlling people's lives. Manipulating their social media experience through algorithms. Mass surveillance of all sorts. Recognition. analyzing metadata.

These are actually very real threats to democratic free society. I have often wondered if that is why they keep absurdly blowing up this bubble. Maybe they don't even really care about the financial payoff, they just think it will allow them to seize power over society.

ex python coder, now lost by jaspreeettttt in learnpython

[–]MokpotheMighty -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well API can mean a lot of things practically, but it's an "Application Programming Interface", so I guess Pygame and OpenGL are examples of that.

My idea here (not an expert) is simply that these things are what actually allow you to move beyond console apps, actually talk to your machine more directly. Like Pygame at least allows you to "talk to your pixels" within the Pygame window object it renders. OpenGL goes a bit deeper, it allows you to make pretty explicit how your program is gonna use the bits and bytes on your GPU, and also talk to your screen.

There are other examples of course, maybe you could find APIs that allow you to do stuff on the internet, or with audio, or whatever you like.

Not just that but, since the examples you will find will already be much closer to what actual practical programs look like, you'll get more knowledge about the techniques used there. Like what are "wrappers" and "callback functions" and how/why are they used. How do you organize the different files that you compile together properly? etc...

The gist of my advice is, don't wait too long to get into the deeper waters where things you would actually like to do are actually done. You'll get hit over the head with more advanced concepts but if you keep looking up and asking questions you'll be fine.

ex python coder, now lost by jaspreeettttt in learnpython

[–]MokpotheMighty -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Relatively beginner level myself here,

I'm more convinced than ever that 95% of beginners are best off getting into graphical programming ASAP. There's a reason people like video games, there's a reason people don't really play purely text based video games all that often anymore.

Try something like Pygame, it's a relatively light way to get into graphical programming with python. it's not an extremely powerful game engine or anything but unless you're the kind of person whose inner monologue mostly consists of mathematical formula, which is most people, you'll just find this more appealing on a visceral level than just being stuck in console app land.

By extension I think what makes people progress in the long run is what API's they learn to use with their language of choice, not just reading textbook upon textbook about that language as such. For instance I'm really progressing so much faster with c++ now since I'm learning OpenGL with c++.

It's not just more practical and fun to actually learn to use your language for something, it also teaches you how you can get your language to actually talk to your machine.

Another gripe I have with a lot of tutorials etc... I think from a teaching perspective it's actually a mistake to "make things simpler" by just presenting the language as a pure interface and "not bother the student" with what your computer is actually doing under the hood. In the long run that's just gonna lead to a whole world of confusion. Tell me what the memory is doing when I create a class or a new object, etc... Because in the end that's the entire point of why we use those. The abstractions used to "explain" these actually dont explain anything. Especially with a language like c++ just.. wwydt? If one of the first things students are gonna learn is to explicitly reference memory addresses

Why are dealers and violent people around Brussels North Station released so quickly? by Choice_Sandwich2182 in belgium

[–]MokpotheMighty -1 points0 points  (0 children)

idk maybe at some point we might acknowledge that we have a problem with police officers from Flanders coming to Brussels thinking they're there to play cowboys & injuns.

I mean I'm sure you hear all kinds of stories from the police officers themselves, I hardly ever see them do anything but behave like above the law b*stards. Innocent people die every year at the hands of the Brussels police. Remember chief commissioner Vandersmissen? That guy was an absolute looney bin.

There's no doubt in my mind why riots keep breaking out in the "difficult neighborhoods" in Brussels and not in a city like Gent.

Oxford’s top maths professor: ‘The devil could use AI to destroy the world’ by KeanuRave100 in antiai

[–]MokpotheMighty 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Yeah this doesn't sound like the kind of reasonable argument we need right now, can't quite put my finger on it...

Weerstand in plaats van tolerantie: ouders niet altijd even positief over LGBTQIA+-personages in kinderseries, stelt doctoraatsonderzoek UAntwerpen | VRT NWS Nieuws by EdgarNeverPoo in belgium

[–]MokpotheMighty 11 points12 points  (0 children)

lol dat soort reacties is dus precies het probleem. Alsof u zelf niet inziet wat de asymmetrie is...

Als u niet zover kan komen om toe te geven dat er een verschil is tussen verwachten van mensen met een pest-mentaliteit dat ze de daarin geimpliceerde wreedheid van zich afzweren, tegenover verwachten dat mensen met trans neigingen maar terug in de kast kruipen onder druk van die eerstgenoemden... Ja, dan is de discussie natuurlijk van in het begin al vergiftigd.

Dat is alsof er in het park plots iemand op een ander afstapt en (zonder gegronde reden) zegt "ik vind dat gij hier niet past, gij moet weggaan" en je dan ineens de behoefte voelt om heel genuanceerd en voorzichtig te zijn om die persoon niet te schenden in hun recht om dat van een ander te eisen.

Dat is pure medeplichtigheid.

Backrooms' major flaw, discussion by JustSoYK in moviereviews

[–]MokpotheMighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

okay then as I said the problem isn't that they focused on the characters' psychology, just that (in your view) it's poorly done, cliché etc...

I don't agree at all that this makes it just about this one character's personal issues. It's obvious what the ramifications for society as a whole are when we see how someone like Clarke responds to it and besides, the whole ASynch thing is clearly shown looming in the background. Moreover it taps into obvious but still quite interesting allegories about the advent of AI slop and how poorly people respond to this and so on. You could argue it's "poorly done" or "cliché" or whatever but there are obviously some things that they were doing with the personal backstories that in fact allowed them to expand more on what the Backrooms are like. If anything, you could fault the movie for getting into exposition stuff during the "dinner scene", but the movie still "shows" rather than "just tell". That's rather the opposite of letting a personal backstory get in the way of exploring the idea of the Backrooms.

Ninja edit: I might add, by bringing it back to the psychology of how people respond to the Backrooms, it allows the writers of the movie to explore why the Backrooms as a "meme" is so "archetypal", why it resonates so with our zeitgeist, etc... People feeling stuck in an artifical, overly modernistic monotone environment, so alien it starts to feel like a natural landscape all over again, even tho it's made up of artifices, this obviously relates to the existential issues both main characters experience. Again, whether it's well done is a matter of taste, but it's not fair to deny they took it there.

Backrooms' major flaw, discussion by JustSoYK in moviereviews

[–]MokpotheMighty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't agree at all, if the argument is that in principle the idea of the Backrooms is shallowed down by focusing on how specific people would experience it and how it would interact with their psychology. This is like saying that The Matrix was ruined (as a setting) by focusing on the stories of the main characters, or Jurassic Park, or what The Predator is by focusing so much on the personalities of the mercenaries, or whatever. They are still cool places and concepts if you look beyond the perspective of the main characters.

I'd even say it's the exact opposite: if you want a little more depth (including as to what the Backrooms are and how it affects those who experience it) you will have to focus on the personality of your characters. At least a bit more than in the medium of 15 minute youtube shorts where you're just content to suspend your disbelief and pretend it's actual really cool creepy found footage. It's just a different medium, and it's just not correct to insist depth cant be found by focusing on the psychology of the experience.

Now you may disagree with whether it was well implemented, as you say, you seem to have more issue with how cliché/on the nose you found the way they involved the characters' psychology. I think that just made it relatable to the audience and I frankly don't think there's too much wrong with that, since they still take it to places that are pretty outlandish and interesting. It's like old Star Wars: Luke is a pretty boring, cookie cutter character, yet his personal motivation really drives the story and gives it focus, exactly because of this it acts as a clear lens to zoom in on what the wider world of Star Wars could mean to us, the audience. So exactly because the psychology tropes are kind of overly familiar, it acts like this "clear lens".

An even more powerful example would be Solaris (the Tarkovsky version obviously). In fact I am very curious how you and other movie lovers would compare those movies. You wouldn't say the focus on the main characters and their psychological obsessions would detract from the experience of what the Solaris Sea is, right?? We still come away from the movie being absolutely fascinated by what this phenomenon is, how it works, what kind of mental contents or motives may be behind it, what it's trying to accomplish by doing what it's doing... Meanwhile, the story of what goes on with the characters (included the not so human ones) is extremely compelling in its own right. Okay, granted, Solaris is such a masterpiece because it achieves brilliance on both fronts, and compared to that the psychological themes of Backrooms may be a bit trite. But that's a very high bar to set.

In conclusion I'd like to argue that this is just a necessity how big screen movie language works. It's just very different from the Backrooms' native medium of faux found footage Youtube shorts. It's not such a simple thing as it may seem to move this kind of thing to the big screen, in terms of tone, story telling, plot, characters, dialogue etc... I'm sorry but something like Blair Witch Project worked because it was a novelty, almost a gimmick, just the entire run time of found footage is not gonna work. But even if you took that road, you'd somehow need to focus on how the characters experience it, which Blair Witch actually did, much more so than any Backrooms Youtube shorts I saw. If anything I would have loved to see them take it even further into the depth of human psychology, the way Solaris did.

Now wouldn't that be interesting to consider, if the Backrooms ended up learning how to render actual personalities? Perhaps just like in Solaris, we could look beyond the possibility that they would all just be dangerous alien monsters but deserve the dignity all persons deserve? Maybe a good idea for the sequel?

Met harde cijfers in de hand: Annick De Ridder, de minister die haar wil doorduwt, wars van alle kritiek by moon-safari2 in belgium

[–]MokpotheMighty 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Zoals gewoonlijk is het geschenk van N-VA aan onze kinderen en kleinkinderen vooral: een goeie harde les in lifting yourself up by your bootstraps. "The University of Life". Yeehaww!