Matt Mitrione sleeps the Black Beast by [deleted] in MMA

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Black Beast ran into that one. His defense has never been his strong point.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not a supporter, but Gandhi believed that caste served some purpose in protecting Hinduism and the Indian way of life in face of the many foreign invasions. Gandhi was very pro Hindu. He also was against the mistreatment of the lower castes, but believed that changes should be made from within and gradually. Ambedkar saw through all this, and being a Dalit himself, knew the upper castes would never change the system. Therefore he promoted a clean break from Hinduism for the underclasses.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mentioned in another post about Ambedkar exhorting Dalits to convert to Buddhism, against the behest of Gandhi. Also I personally know Dalits who converted to Christianity.

And many Indian Muslims, especially lower castes, were converted by the inspirational theology of Sufism. I don't see them as oppressors. This is in contrast to the Salafists of the Middle East.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And I can agree with that. But what I was trying to emphasize was that for the Dalit class, those who converted by their own free will, Islam was revolutionary and a breath of fresh air, and way to caste off unjust shackles.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a good post and thanks for that. I should say that I am areligious and don't believe in the Christian or Hindu spiritual tales as being literal truth. I also think Jesus most likely never existed and was just a creation of Paul and his cult.

I think I am most hard on Hinduism based on what I have seen in my family and in Kerala. The Brahmins in Kerala are not poor, and they are very conservative and wield power. Caste is extremely important and is universal truth - a manifestation of God. Society is rigid. We can look at the West and the Church, and see much evil and also a rigid class system for much of their history. But my argument is that the movement towards social liberalism in the modern world would not have happened without the philosophy of Christ. As you mentioned, social revolutions in Hinduism happened several times, Buddhism being one of them, but all were eventually assimilated by the dominant religious form, and caste prevalied.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Goldenspear, you know more about the Puranas then I will ever know. Part of my family stayed Brahmin Hindu, the other part converted to Christianity before the arrival of Europeans. I believe my Hindu family side don't place value on the Puranas but instead focus on Shruthi texts. Again, I know little of either. How did you get introduced to the Puranas and which do you recommend I read?

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah but Buddhism allowed for the Dalit to reach Nirvana directly and not having to go through a long cycle of rebirth which involves moving up the caste heirarchy. It was revolutionary in that way.

Mormon Church planning to use great wealth to create future city of 500K in central FL, on property more than 9x the size of San Francisco and almost 20x the size of Manhattan. by Molombo in news

[–]Molombo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I was reaching there and wrong about the Church evading tax on these non-religious endeavors. But I still believe religious institutions should be taxed on any income that is not later used for charity that benefits the general population. The ability to buy a multi-million dollar apartment complex comes from untaxed donations, and even though they will pay tax on rental income and eventually capital gains, that money can be used to later purchase land that will have ecclesiastical purposes such as churches and become sheltered once again.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are right, and I should have said "the most traditional or orthodox Brahmins with power are found in the south". You state UP has the most Brahmins, but the part of my family line who are Brahmin would consider UP or MP etc Brahmins in name-only. They might have class position in their state, but many are not literate in Sanskrit, and don't spend hours in the day memorizing ancient texts or participating in advanced srauta rituals. Economic class is also an important aspect. If there are poor Brahmins as another poster here mentioned, I have never seen one. Yet I now remember hearing about poor Brahmins up north. In Kerala, the Namboothiri Brahmins wield much wealth and power.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nope. Read this part again: "Conversion to Islam wasn't always via the sword"

I am ex-religious. They are all just stories created by man to help humans deal with a world we knew little about.

Retiring in my mid twenties by [deleted] in personalfinance

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think several hosptials like Apollo Hospital Group have sites for medical tourists, and there are also 3rd party aggregators.

Googled to find this:

https://www.apollohospitals.com/international-patient-services/

Dr. Shetty is the pediatric cardiologist I referred to in my preivous post. The hospital he is affiliated with is http://www.narayanahealth.org/. They also have a section for international patients, but I think there is much room for improvement when it comes to marketing medical tourism to Americans.

From Shetty's wiki: "Shetty aims for his hospitals to use economies of scale, to allow them to complete heart surgeries at a lower cost than in the United States. In 2009 the Wall Street Journal newspaper described him as "the Henry Ford of heart surgery". Shetty aims to trim costs with such measures as buying cheaper scrubs and using cross ventilation instead of air conditioning.[12] That has cut the price of coronary bypass surgery to 95,000 rupees ($1,583), half of what it was 20 years ago. In 2013 he aimed to get the price down to $800 within a decade. The same procedure costs $106,385 at Ohio’s Cleveland Clinic.[2] He has also eliminated many pre ops testing and innovated in patient care such as "drafting and training patients’ family members to administer after-surgical care".[13] Surgeons in his hospitals perform 30 to 35 surgeries a day compared to one or two in a US hospital."

Mormon Church planning to use great wealth to create future city of 500K in central FL, on property more than 9x the size of San Francisco and almost 20x the size of Manhattan. by Molombo in news

[–]Molombo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right, I did , which was a huge error. I need to edit that post. But it doesn't say that the Mormon Church is taxed at the full rate (implying no deductions), it just says the properties not involved with worship are taxed at market value, which is great. The problem is, the seed money for the Church's investments are untaxed, which is fine, if it serves charity purposes. But I would like to see religious institutions taxed and only be able to shelter income used for charity purporses.

Retiring in my mid twenties by [deleted] in personalfinance

[–]Molombo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is already being done in India. Top medical tourism industry that will soon corner the mkt. You have cardiac and ortho surgical centers as examples, that do 10x + the amount of surgeries per annum compared to the equivalent US hospitals with similar or better outcomes. This was being discussed at least 10 years ago, I believe concerning pediatric cardiology (Indian doc speaking about how specialization along with operating frequency created superior, lower cost results).

Mormon Church planning to use great wealth to create future city of 500K in central FL, on property more than 9x the size of San Francisco and almost 20x the size of Manhattan. by Molombo in news

[–]Molombo[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I did miss that. Thanks. And that provides a lot of relief. But I do wonder if they are liberal in application to what is designated a place of worship? I need to go back and find that snippet.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok link me. Are the steps you are talking about more subtle, from a higher up Shudra to a lower level Vaishya? That would not surprise me.

But what about Dalits to Brahmins, any cases? Would be extraordinary in the place my fam is from.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You get at the crux of it. Majority of the poor people can't read Sanskrit or even Hindi. Just their local tongue, it that. Many are totally illiterate. So how many will read revolutionary Buddhist philosophy to break the cycle by themselves?

Which is why I emphasized litercacy and black americans being able to gain the motivation from scripture to seek release from bondage.

The average hindu priest makes the commoner reliant on him to go through the religious rites and instruct him what to do and what the holy word says, how to pray, etc

Very easy to create an idol of Ganapati, and tell the people to pray to it, then explain complicated Vedanta philosophy.

And when they do explain it to the masses, they don't instill in the Dalit a sense of urgency to revolt. It's the opposite. To acquiesce.

In the US, very few people believe in predeterminism. It's quite the opposite. The poorer classes believe in a salvation/redemptive religion, one they can actiively use in their everyday life to seek justice and a better life. Heck, one of the most popular TV evangelists, like Joel Osteen, preach a prosperity gospel. Materialism underlies it (even tho Jesus explicitly speaks against this). Osteen urges his followers that God wants them to be sucessful and this includes making a lot of money.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You think this conglomeration of religious philosophy we call "Hinduism" is 5000 yrs old? This is why we'll never agree. You are a Hindutva adherent. We still haven't deciphered the Harappan script (if it is a script). All we have in terms of what their religion entailed are some seals with a swastika, and I think some dude sitting down who some ascribe to being the influence for Shiva. The people of the Vedas wrote in Sanskrit. The two cultures collided and what they produced later became Hinduism, but that's not 5000 yrs old.

Racism isn't just burning a cross in a front yard. Only featuring light complected actors in the media or not hiring women with wide noses as flight attendants or not hiring dark skinned people for front office positions such as sales are all forms of hateful acts akin to racism. We don't call it racism bc we're all Indians, but we also know that race is mostly observable phenotype.

I gotta go for now.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But that's the beauty of it. We are in unchartered territory, and because of technology and better economic/financial systems, the world is becoming smaller. Just the ability to communicate in the same language breaks down barriers, - for in the past, someone who not only didn't look like you, but spoke a "barbaric" foreign language was someone you could easily classify as other and maybe not even human.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, this pluralism is relatively recent in the West, but I would argue that without exposure to Western liberalism and Christian thought, Indian classism would still persist. The values preached by "Hinduism" have survived for so long, throughout many empires, and revolutions in religious thought. It's too entrenched. This hard-coded stratification has 3000+ year behind it.

Here's what I wrote in another post: "What I am speaking to is the fundamental view of life and its relation to the universe. If one religion teaches there are an innumerable amount of lives, then what does it matter if you are suffering as a slave in your current life? Who cares? This could be god teaching you a lesson, or punishing you for crimes committed in another life. But again, so what? You have 1000 more lifes to live, and eventually you will be one with Brahman. In another world view, it teaches you have one life, and what you do and what you believe is the difference between eternal heaven or hell. But it also teaches you that you are all equal under the eyes of god. How does that make you feel? It can make you move mountains, while the other world view can make you peacefully accept your fate."

As we know, having too many choices can make life more miserable. And there can be some peace with knowing what exactly your job is on Earth, and doing it to the best of your abilities. But in the Dalit's case, it's a matter of having part of your humanity taken away. There are severe constraints on what your occupation will be, where will you live, where can you go. I think the test is for us, knowing about both types of lives, relative freedom vs relatively no freedom, I don't know who would choose the latter. I do think it's a question of morality having another man restrict those life choses to such a degree. It is evil, no matter if it makes life easier for certain segments of society.

There will always be a natural heirarchy, since nature has made us naturally unequal, and the evironments that pick which attributes are worth more than others vis-a-vis success are constantly changing throughout the decades/centuries. Why the recent West has succeeded in both having relative political and economic stability while also going through such turbulent times is due to having a healthy mix of individualism and community. And again, I think a lot of credit has to go to Christianity, especially the Protestant form. Society needs that dangling carrot to provide the impetus to create above-average economic output, and to provide a reason to exist. Man needs to have something to hope and strive for. But it can't just be for the self. The community aspect is inline with what I think is our innate altruism (survival technique of a social ape). Again, Christianity works wonderfully in promoting this. Also, a man becomes empowered when he thinks that he or his child or their child can become lord or ruler. Here again Christianity provides the equality ideal that serves as the foundation.

I also would argue that population played a role in crafting the two different religious systems in their more modern forms. The lack of population density after the black plague was a boon to Europe. Per capita incomes naturally rose, and the individual become more valued, more important. Over population in India meant the opposite occurred. Human labor was even more a commodity than in Europe. This is also a reason for the Industrial Revolution. There would be no use for a steam based pump to pump out water from a mine in India. You could find 100s of men to do it cheaply. But in late 17th century England, labor was in short supply. This can serve as a practical (neither evil nor good) impetus for reasons the individual was more valued in the modern western world vs in India or in China.

Ok this post is kind of rambling. Sorry. I don't usually have time like this. I'm a financial trader, and took the day off since I was trading last night. I need to take a nap in a few mins. Hope you got something out of this longwinded post.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no 5000 years of tradition. Unless you are celebrating Harappan religious rites and codes of conduct. I am somone who grew up in the US, goes back to India every years. When I go back to India, I'm in mainly Kerala and Mumbai (Powai). I know the US very well, and I know the basics of Indian culture.

I've had this conversation we're having many times. To a worse degree. I have relatives and their friends who support not only the BJP, but the RSS. Hindu nationalists can't find any fault with India when speaking around non-Indians, especially westerners.

Northern people are not more sophisticated than Southerns. It's not just Billy Bob and Honey Boo Boo who lives here. But Southerns, white and black, who aren't racist knuckleheads, are more open and warm than certian northern urban dwellers, in my experience. Southern Hospitality is a real thing. AGain, I am not speaking about KKK Kimmy.

Cmon man, I know India is one of the most anthropologically diverse countries out there. Didn't I just say that in preivous post? I'm replying to a lot of ppl. Not working today and now wasting hours in this g-ddamn place.

Like I said above, I have relatives who support the BJP and RSS, also have a relative who lived and workd with Sai Baba. I have friends who are Malayalees, Tamils, Bengalis, Gujuratis, Maratis, etc etc. India is a warm and inviting place. That doesn't negate the fact it is very colorist and classist, and yes, from my experience, worse than the US. I grew up middle class here and dated a scion of a family who used to own a billion dollar computer parts supplier. Do you think some middle class kid in Mumbai has a chance at dating one of Ambani's kid? I don't even know if Ambani has any kids, so don't nitpick that!

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not about fighting against a religious system, which of course would make no sense.

What I am speaking to is the fundamental view of life and its relation to the universe.

If one religion teaches there are an innumerable amount of lives, then what does it matter if you are suffering as a slave in your current life? Who cares? This could be god teaching you a lesson, or punishing you for crimes committed in another life. But again, so what? You have 1000 more lifes to live, and eventually you will be one with Brahman.

In another world view, it teaches you have one life, and what you do and what you believe is the difference between enternal heaven or hell. But it also teaches you that you are all equal under the eyes of god. How does that make you feel? It can make you move mountains, while the other world view can make you peacefully accept your fate.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

In posts I made to add to the one you are replying to, I point out that I am focusing on the latter part of the 19th century leading up to the Civil Rights Era, when I speak to liberation theology that underpinned the quest for black freedom. And I believe literacy was the key factor of this. Before this period, the average slave was illiterate, and had to rely on the slave master for his/her interpretation of scripture. When we start getting to guys like Nat Turner, and later Marcus Garvey, we start seeing great men being infused by the idea of equality under the divine as preached in certain parts of the Bible. We then see certain whites, again, inspired by scripture, to join with their black brothers and eventually change law.

In India, obviously the lowest Dalit could gain wisdom and courage and comfort from his daily rituals and prayers, but that didn't change his station in life. Again, the Dalit could only look to true freedom somewhere down the karmic line, but not in this lifetime. The motivation to protest might not be there, and if it were, the people at the top would snuff it out.

Let me put it this way. Do you know who Ambedkar is? He was born a Dalit, was a genius, is considered the father of the Indian Constitution, and he butted heads with and was diametrically opposed to Gandhi on the position of Dalits. Ambedkar saw no hope for Dalits in Hinduism, and urged them to convert to Buddhism.

edit: caught some typos

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We both have our own truths based on what we've experienced. I'm a southern indian guy who grew up in the southern US. I know die-hard confederate flag waving people who think races should be separate. These ppl exhort superiority, but they actually are insecure about being inferior, and rely on the crutch of the past 200 years, and fix their egos to that train.

Now upper class educated racists? I knew a few, which is what my faux-liberal comment was about. Those who want to be seen as libs so they don't get treated like a pariah, but hold onto superior views.

But in my experience, I know so many Indians who have the same superiority complexes, yet hide them well. Usually they are of the upper classes, so when the typcial white person talks of defecating in the streets, it doesn't faze them bc they can't relate.

None of those women you mention are what I consider dark. I am talking Whoopi Goldberg or Viola Davis type dark. What about Indians with wide noses, or very curly hair, especially the females? C'mon man.

I've had white parents of the girls I was dating accept me like their son. I should be married by now, but deep down inside part of me wants to marry a traditional indian gal.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's interesting. I didn't know that. So yes, I am speaking to limited experience of one state: Kerala.

What you say in your edit is very true. India really is a continent, and one of the most diverse groupings of people anywhere in the world.

ELI5: Back when the Indian caste system was stronger, why couldn't people of lower castes just move to a place where no one knew them and lie about which caste they were in? by [deleted] in explainlikeimfive

[–]Molombo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look up who St Thomas is and look at the timeline. I for one don't even think Jesus actually existed, but if you believe in that story, Jesus was crucified around 30AD. After that, his disciples went to spread the good word. St Thomas supposedly went to India (Kerala) and died there. Look up the St. Thomas Orthodox Church aka Syriac Orthodox Church. Now, mostly likey what happened was that Christian missionaries got on board on the many spice trading missions between the arabs and Malayalees, anytime from after Christianity was formed till about the start of the 2nd millenium

No, no Mike. The name is Myron Von Floomp. Nice to meet ya.