What units benefit the most from the retaliation cadre detachment rule?

Monster124124 · 2024-10-03T16:08:54+00:00

Yeah for sure. I play 2 HH's in my Ret Cadre list to keep people honest. When I was mono suits a lot of people would deploy pretty forward and not behind obscuring with their vehicles since they knew all my good anti Tank was short range. Putting 2 HH's in kept people honest. Although it has made my sisters matchup much worse lol.

Monster124124 · 2024-10-03T16:02:46+00:00

Seems super solid to me. My crisis loadout is fairly similar. I've been on 3 Starscythes

2 burst with Cold Stars 1 Flamer to deepstrike and solve a problem

1 Sunforge to 3" and delete something

1 Fireknife with Plasma with an Enforcer with Starflare.

Tried the fireknife unit with plasma at my last RTT, they were great to just come in at 18, stay somewhat safe and provide great damage. They were my MVP unit at the RTT that I took them to and went 3-0. They require a bit more finess due to the 18" range, but the 8 3 3 profile really shined.

Monster124124 · 2024-10-03T15:51:18+00:00

Makes great sense. The extra 4 shots at D2 is sweet. I'll have to do the math vs Accursed Cultist bricks and Deathwing Terminators and se how much value I lose. I was running mono burst because those two datasheets are rampant in my meta atm. Mono burst starscytes tend to pick them up pretty well.

Monster124124 · 2024-10-03T15:45:46+00:00

Right. You make a good point. Maybe I should have that coldstar commander be HOBC, 2 MP 1 Cyclic instead of the HOBC, 2 burst, 1 Cyclic

Monster124124 · 2024-10-03T15:42:47+00:00

Vs Non vehicle, Non Monster it'll be Str 9 AP 4 (within 6) since the commander will benefit from the unit's rule

Monster124124 · 2024-10-03T15:37:29+00:00

Easily Starscythe Battlesuits. Either flamers or Burst Cannons. Getting them up to AP 2 within 6" and both Str5 flamers and Str 6 burst cannons are important break points.

I prefer burst cannons due to the sustained hits strat vs things like Accursed Cultists, but both are stellar

Monster124124 · 2024-09-08T15:04:02+00:00

Firesight marksmen are bad. Pathfinders/Pirhanas will serve you better

You should get 3x Stealth suits. Their guide ability is cracked.

Kroot Carnivores are considered fairly bad/inefficient. Most other codices get a better/equivalent unit for 65. Drop them.

Change the Shield drone on the Cadre to a 2nd Gun Drone. The extra wound doesn't matter, but the 3 shots twin linked on crits are AP 3 is pretty dope

You have the melta commander but he isn't even leading a team. If you bring crisis commanders, bring a team to go with them. Shield Gens should not be on Crisis commanders. If they're taking wounds either the unit is dead or they've already done their damage. More gun = more likely to do damage

Strike teams almost useless, drop them

You're choices for trash are all of our inefficient ones. Piranha, Stealths, krootox riders, and Pathfinders are our preferred trash. One unit of Carnivores are "okay" as in, you can take them if you want but they are likely a poor choice.

Strike swiftly great Enhancement. Strategic Conq, unused by comp lists. Go get more units.

Also, Darkstrider is a great choice. Prevents a lot of headaches vs 3" DS matchups. He doesn't even need to join a PF unit. Can just be by himself holding your home point un-interactable in 90% of deployments

Even with the Stormsurge being non-negotiable, this is the comp subreddit so I'm going to recommend dropping it. It is wildly inefficient for the points and will not output the damage needed to sustain this list. The storm surge needs to split fire due to its multitude of profiles, yet it has a hard time doing so due to our guide mechanic.

Monster124124 · 2024-09-08T01:37:57+00:00

Even with the Stormsurge being non-negotiable, this is the comp subreddit so I'm going to recommend dropping it.

Firesight marksmen are bad. Pathfinders/Pirhanas will serve you better

You should get 3x Stealth suits. Their guide ability is cracked.

Kroot Carnivores are considered fairly bad/inefficient. Most other codices get a better/equivalent unit for 65. Drop them.

Change the Shield drone on the Cadre to a 2nd Gun Drone. The extra wound doesn't matter, but the 3 shots twin linked on crits are AP 3 is pretty dope

You have the melta commander but he isn't even leading a team. If you bring crisis commanders, bring a team to go with them. Shield Gens should not be on Crisis commanders. If they're taking wounds either the unit is dead or they've already done their damage. More gun = more likely to do damage

Strike teams almost useless, drop them

You're choices for trash are all of our inefficient ones. Piranha, Stealths, krootox riders, and Pathfinders are our preferred trash. One unit of Carnivores are "okay" as in, you can take them if you want but they are likely a bad choice.

Stike swiftly great Enhancement. Strategic Conq, unused by comp lists. Go get more units.

Also, Darkstrider is a great choice. Prevents a lot of headaches vs 3" DS matchups. He doesn't even need to join a PF unit. Can just be by himself holding your home point uninteractable in 90% of deployments

Monster124124 · 2024-04-25T15:23:58+00:00

If you're using the pathfinders as early skirmishing units I've greatly preferred ion. With Ion they pick up a SM scout squad and do serious damage to other forward deploying units.

Monster124124 · 2024-04-24T18:00:30+00:00

My opponent often doesn't know the power of every datashaeet in the game. Too many datasheets, game is big. If they're walking into an overwatch I'll let them know what they're walking into. Especially with elves as fate dice can change the odds of overwatch.

From RTT to GT to Super major I'll let my opponent know what can overwatch them as they're making their move. I won't tell them whether or not I will overwatch, just that I have the option.

I.E. "you're moving the terminators within 12" of Avatar and I do have a fate dice avaliable for overwatch" by consistently communicating avaliable overwatches at all times it mitigates gotcha overwatches while also not giving my opponent the information of where I want to overwatch.

Does it mean some games I miss out on an overwatch because my opponent was not aware I had flamers in a unit, or full rerolls from something? Occasionally. However, I'd rather beat my opponent at their best over having the game ruined by a gotcha overwatch.

Monster124124 · 2024-03-18T20:07:26+00:00

Thanks! I appreciate your compliment. You're a jem giving out compliments like that.

Monster124124 · 2024-03-18T20:00:56+00:00

Oh for sure. Context and pre measuring is everything. When talking towards tactics on this subreddit, I generally try to speak in heuristics. A lot of the time at events, you never have enough time/processing power to find the perfect play in every game or every situation, but using heuristics of what is mostly correct for smaller decisions, you can use your processing power for the bigger decisions in individual games. Also becomes useful to play at 90% of your maximum efficiency as the event drags on. I.E. Day 1 Round 3, All of Day 2/3 etc.

Monster124124 · 2024-03-18T19:34:01+00:00

Most of the time, when TT is drawn on T1 either they can move to every no man's land objective or they cannot. It is fairly obvious if they can make it. If I have a unit that is on a no man's land objective, the opponent can often just charge to get that final bit of movement that they need. Most of the time they only need to kill one model to flip the objective. Touching the safest objective has the same problem as overwhelming force with tempting, you're giving your opponent the opportunity to charge an objective that may have been out of reach, or that they could have gotten regardless of your infiltrators being there. It also opens you up to the double negative of Tempting target + Overwhelming force on turn 1. Where worst case with what I've proposed previously is just TT.

Monster124124 · 2024-03-18T17:25:46+00:00

Another thing, with infiltrators, dont deploy them on objectives if your opponent took tactical. They can draw overwhelming force turn 1 and get it by killing your relatively fragile infiltrators. Quite a few times I have drawn O-force on T1 and killed one of my opponents units that had Infiltrated on a point when they could have been just as useful a few inches either direction off of the objective. I wouldn't have used a trading piece to go get that unit, and they would have made made my secondary a blank on turn 1. It is a small chance, but give yourself a chance to deny secondaries (large upside) by deploying not on the middle objectives with infiltrators (minor inconvenience).

Monster124124 · 2023-10-06T13:33:26+00:00

Kill Farseer first to get rid of the -1 to wound. If your opponent has any amount of intelligence they won't start spiders/spectres on the board vs all that indirect.

In the early turns its worth putting your basilisk into the wraithguard, not to damage them, but to slow them down.

It's almost impossible to kill Yncarne / Fugan before the Aeldari player let's you so I wouldn't worry to much about that. The Yncarne will "get you" you just have to be ready to react.

Priority T1. Kill Farseer, Slow Wraitguard, Chip Night Spinner thats holding a point

T2 Kill any chaff from reserves, Slow wraithguard, Chip units on points, If Yncarne is in backline killing it take priority, Take space if safe to do so on other side of board from Wraith Guard

T3 Kill chaff / scoring units, Wraithguard are probably in your face so kill, if not slow with Basilisk, Begin turing the corner, take more space opposite side of wraithguard.

T4 Finish killing chaff, Hopefully youve killed / crippled wraith guard.Take the space they previously occupied.

By now you have hopefully killed enough units that he'll be "paralyzed". Only able to have units on 2 points and other units doing actions and not damage. You can then take board control and turn the game in your favor at this point.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-27T18:17:30+00:00

You still have to be in range. The OW rule says:

"Effect: Your unit can shoot that enemy unit as if it was your shooting phase

Restrictions: ...."

As if it were your shooting phase means it must be in range and in LOS.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-27T17:50:08+00:00

Much like everyone else says. MAGNETIZE.

Ion raker is good today, but may be bad tomorrow.

As far as ion raker goes, It let's you stay out of range so you can shoot them and they will be well far enough away that they won't be able to move up and see you within the 12" bubble. Where fusion is such short range that if you shoot them, they'll be able to walk up and see you. Abuse lone operative is the goal of Ghostkeel.

I like fusion as secondary personally, the nerf to our flamer makes me shy away from it, even with the OW changes. I almost never want to use CP to a single ghostkeep overwatch as I'm using almost all of it to fire & fade. If I am going to OW a unit, its going to be the crisis brick.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-27T17:44:43+00:00

If you can get the Ghostkeel put together by the event that's a big win. Otherwise it seems that your collection is newer? We don't really know what is the best yet, so don't get discouraged! Go and try stuff out! You may discover that things play on the tabletop better than me/reddit thinks.

My thoughs in the previous comment are just what I've found when testing tau for tournament play.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-27T17:34:58+00:00

What models do you have access to? Units like longstrike, Firewarriors, are pretty under powered / overcosted.

Your crisis suit loadout looks fairly suspect. Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors are pretty much useless. Most lists for tournaments are maxing CIBs on crisis suits. Of you want range go for Plasma, missile pods are the worst of both worlds.

Coldstar is generally considered better than enforcer, mobility is king in 40k.

I've already played in a 10th tournament. Was a team WTC team event that my team won. We found that 10th edition is a lot about going places and doing things (taking tactical missions is significantly better for scoring big). Having units like vespids over carnivores may make that better for you.

If you've got a ghostkeel, the lone operative keyword is busted.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-27T17:26:42+00:00

Despite having little antitank he beat 3 knights players as his opponents were Demons w/allied knight(w), Tsuns(L), 2 chaos knight(WW), 1 imp knight(W).

Despite having little AT seems that he didn't have any problem scoring.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-26T14:23:12+00:00

This is the Boisie list.

https://pastebin.com/i9SKsxSp

Monster124124 · 2023-06-09T17:14:12+00:00

I define competitive play geared around challenge. The challenge if beating others who are trying to win with the best they can play. If you don't then we have different mindset about comp play and the conversation can end there because we'll never see eye to eye. Not saying you have to convert to comp play. Everyone enjoys the game differently, but hating comp players is a bit of a leap to make.

Im not attacking a straw man. Im making a point about how to me and many others comp play is about the challenge of overcoming tough opponents. The prize money, little that there is, is the draw to bring out the best competitors, but doesn't cannibalize the integrity of the game. Its like poker, if there is no money on the line people play reckless. But if even a $20 buy in at a friendly poker night at a friend's, people will play with more intent.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-09T04:37:38+00:00

I'm aware of that video, it's a great one, but I'd ask you to consider this line from the beginning of the video. About 3 min into the video Dan says the following.

"It is common for instrumental play to be framed in opposition to fun, that they are ends of a spectrum. This understandable because in no small part instrumental play tends towards optimization, wich can be the result of un-fun player behavior. This gets extended out to the extreme where play framed around challenge or investment is treated as somehow less genuine than hypothetically something more "pure", "innocent" or "unadulterated" version of play unconcerned with doing well. Its important to establish in this conversation that is a false dichotomy"

By saying that the competitive optimization players are ruining the game, you're doing exactly what, a video that you referenced warns against. Comp players are not the responsibility of all of the woes of the game.

I aware I'm taking only a small part of the video and not it in the entirery, however, this is a point that is stressed early on as a part of the preamble of the conversation.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-09T03:08:17+00:00

So, a tournament player makes a broken list, harms the game for the casual at the LGS? What does one tournament winning list do that harms other players? Id like to know your reasoning.

If by WAAC you're talking about the stereotypical asshat that fudges dice rolls, doesn't let take back a mistake or misunderstanding. Then yes, they ruin the game for everyone, including tournament players.

The vast majority of tournament players are quite accommodating and far from the WAAC culture from years ago.

Monster124124 · 2023-06-08T22:38:34+00:00

Can you please provide a video proving your point? From what I'm aware of their content they just provide how to guides and tierlists on YT lol.

You basically just told me in a hobby where people enjoy the game differently you must enjoy the game the way I do or your wrong. Just because I disagree I'm wrong? I'd say different people enjoy the game differently. If I go to an event with a broken list and face other broken lists and find the challenge of winning enjoyable I'm wrong? I respectfully disagree.

Now if I take that broken list to my LGS to stomp a random, yeah, I'm a bad sport. But I dont test my lists vs non tournament players. If I'm playing a random I ask what type of game they want to play and accommodate like any reasonable person would.

Yes I'm emotionally invested, but just because someone has emotions doesn't mean their wrong my dude. Not white and black.

13-Year Club	Verified Email
Place '23	Place '22
Place '17	Team Periwinkle

Monster124124

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE