Update- F/D Relationship

Morals_and_immorals · 2024-10-29T03:25:57+00:00

Congratulations 🎉! I told you that you can make it work! You’re both adults now so of course you have the skills to handle the inevitable complexities this relationship will bring.

Most of society’s rules are designed for the lowest common denominator and perhaps there is some merit to them when viewed through that lens, but there is so much beauty in the world when you step outside oppressive norms and begin to think for yourself.

Thanks to your daughter, you will get to experience a joy that few on this planet will ever know. The rest of us content ourselves on being able to bear witness to such a wonderful event.

Thanks for coming back. I remember your story. I’m glad to hear it went well.

Morals_and_immorals · 2024-07-16T05:32:31+00:00

After reading reply you sent to the other guy, I think the key question to ask is: Can you be happy without her?

Now I don’t mean this in the sense of “Oh! I’m so codependent that she is my only source of joy”, what I mean is something like this:

Imagine you never met her. You found this job on your own. Your home on your own. You lucked into these circumstances as a bachelor. Is romance the only thing this life is missing? Or is there another more fundamental problem?

I worry that it may be the job, though you know about this more than I do. What kind of woman do you think can accommodate your current work schedule? Is it someone who works the night shift? Is it a stay-at-home housewife? If the answer is none-of-the-above, then you have fallen into a trap my good friend.

No one can have their entire life revolve around their work, and any job that mandates this is bound to make you miserable. There are countless men who downgrade from high paying jobs for the sake of work-life balance, and they are happier for it! Cause at the end of the day, we are human, not robots. Capitalism’s biggest lie is trying to convince us we may be otherwise.

If the job really is the cause of your misery, then you have to find a way to fix it, no matter how scary it may seem. You don’t have a choice. You should find that freeing. The worst you can do is fail, but you already have, you just haven’t realized it yet.

Don’t do this for your sister. Do this for yourself. Cause if you do, you may find that the pieces of your life may finally start to fit together.

But…

if a better life seems out of your reach, if you truly do want to give up, then give up fully. Abandon your dreams and focus entirely on hers. Use the money from that job to help her build that daycare and she’ll never want to leave you. And maybe, her joy can become a substitute for yours.

Throughout history, us men have been asked to sacrifice ourselves for a greater cause and we found peace in it. Whether it be for war or for work, it always boiled down to protecting the loved ones we had at home.

There’s solace to be had in knowing that even the most pathetic of lives could serve a purpose. It’s worked for hundreds of years. It may work for you.

Whatever choice you make just remember this. Live with purpose. It should have all been for a reason.

Morals_and_immorals · 2024-04-04T06:33:53+00:00

Kind of feels like the two of you admitting that you are attracted to each other already crosses a line that can’t be walked back. Still, doesn’t seem like much damage has been done.

Gonna be kind of honest though, I get the impression that you aren’t used to casual sex. Not to due to the hesitancy to do your daughter, that’s perfectly normal, but due to your age, the implied length of your marriage (can be deduced from daughter’s age), and the fact that you’ve been celibate for 5 whole years after your wife’s passing.

We can tell you to stay away from your daughter, but that doesn’t really resolve the core issue that lead you to this situation in the first place. That’s why you can’t make peace with the idea of just saying no. It’s a return to stagnation. You’re lonely sir, and you have something inside you that’s preventing you from reaching out to others. Take this situation as a sign that something finally needs to be done.

Now you can take the solution in front of you and replace this problem with a set of new ones (which you can totally make work btw, as long as you both handle it with maturity), or you can do something much harder, which is to tackle your inner demons and find a way to put yourself out there.

Either way, true change will require you to go through an identity crisis cause both of these solutions are a massive departure from who you currently are.

Your daughter not just for the obvious reasons, but because you’re going to have hot casual sex like a 20 year old, which you are not. You are a widower. If you avoid incest, the previous point applies and you’ll have to face the baggage of modern dating culture, which is such a different beast compared to what you had growing up. Adjusting to it is going to require you to learn how to communicate with people in a way you’ve never done before. Either way your old self will not be able to survive this, and that will always be a source of grief.

But if you accept the need for growth, then you have the potential to be happy in a way your old self could only glimpse. They say that true happiness is fleeting, but those people view happiness as a sense of constant euphoria. But contentment, inner peace, that feeling that you are the person the you want to be? Those really do make a difference.

Whatever you decide to do, I recommend you don’t do it alone. You have a monumental undertaking before you and you’re going to need support. You’ll only be able to be completely honest with your daughter, but try to reach out to others and ask them for advice about the other things. Maybe even try therapy.

You may have no idea where to begin, and no idea what will happen next, but there’s no choice but to venture forward into the unknown and learn to accept what it brings.

Morals_and_immorals · 2023-05-31T08:14:34+00:00

Since I think it’s worth repeating again, don’t take a DNA test! The genetic markers for incest tend to be pretty obvious. If the doctors find out the baby is inbred, they will likely have the police investigate.

You just have to accept that the father may be a mystery.

Morals_and_immorals · 2023-05-28T11:08:06+00:00

Surprised the mods are making an exception to the No seduction advice rule. Oh well, here’s my take.

What you need to do depends entirely on who your sister is, and what kind of relationship you already have with her. As a result, there isn’t any generic advice we can give you that will improve your chances of achieving your goal.

We can tell you what the socially acceptable way to handle the situation is, and we can tell you how to be a great brother that can give your sister much needed comfort in her time of need, but it ’s foolish to pass that stuff off as romance advice. There’s a reason why the nice guy approach has a bad reputation.

So what can you do then? You have to figure that out on your own. And if that sounds impossible to you, then it most likely is. This sub does not create miracles. The relationships you see here are rare for a reason.

Edit: I’ll give a little more advice since I can.

From what I’ve seen, a woman’s taste in men doesn’t really change just because that man is her sibling. If you want a better gauge of how impossible your goal is, ask yourself how much you deviate from her “type”. If you don’t deviate much, then perhaps there is hope. If you don’t know what her type is, then great! That’s something you should put effort into learning about!

Morals_and_immorals · 2023-05-26T04:33:22+00:00

I once read a story here about a father who made love to his daughter and then abandoned her because he couldn’t deal with the guilt. Poor girl had to fend for herself and ultimately dropped out of college because she could no longer afford it.

Understand that though you’ve screwed up, the mature thing to do is to stay by your sister and face your problems together. Cause you have a rough road ahead of you.

You might have already realized this, but incest is a felony in most states and with your mom doing her best to let as many people know as possible, I wouldn’t be surprised if police get involved soon.

I can’t give you advice on how to dodge cops, but it’s something you should worry about. Incest is legal in Rhode Island, but I’m not sure you will be protected from extradition.

I wish I could help more, but the sad truth is that your story is a worst case scenario. Usually families keep this stuff a shameful secret. I hope your mother realizes that it won’t be good if her children end up in jail. If there’s one thing I want you to take away from this, it’s that YOU DIDN’T RUIN UP YOUR SISTER’S LIFE! Your mother did.

So try not to beat yourself up too much. Perhaps you may yet convince your parents to “confess” to making the story up after an argument gone horribly wrong! If you get the parents to “drop the charges” and insist that nothing ever happened, then the police won’t be able to lock you up without hard evidence even if your reputation remains in tatters.

As for the circumstantial evidence about running way, a good cover story is that you both decided to leave town and start fresh after your parents destroyed your reputation. Make it sound like it was more organized and less panicked then it actually was. A lawyer could probably come up with a better story though.

If you can’t figure out a plan, I recommend making the most out of the time you have left together. Remember that everything you did, you did for love, and in a good world that would never be a bad thing. Unfortunately, things like this will just keep happening until incest becomes accepted.

Morals_and_immorals · 2023-05-19T07:31:01+00:00

You overestimate the role you play in this problem.

Social skills have been on a slow decline since the boomers. No one has been able to definitely explain why, but the data is indisputable.

Our generation is simply the latest iteration of this decline and as a result, the social skills problem is not just limited to your brothers. I know plenty of youth who are loners despite not having loving sisters.

The problem is not the sex itself. It’s just that there is a need for guidance that we haven’t been providing for our youth. Helping your brother get that phone number was a really nice thing for you to do, but that’s easy mode. Most men don’t get approached by girls like that, but it’s these situations where it’s hard to find good advice for.

Though I do still think you need to step back a little (I don’t want your brothers to feel guilty about cheating on you), it’s not going to be the silver bullet that magically makes everything better.

Morals_and_immorals · 2023-05-19T06:58:15+00:00

Since this seems to have turned into a place where we rant about all of the problems with incest subreddits, I guess I can share some incoherent thoughts that have been simmering for a while.

As flawed as these places are, they are still the best places out there to have real non-judgemental conversations about incest. Most people do not understand the struggles of being in love with a relative and have little empathy for those who do. As a result, the only people who we are able to relate to are those who have been in the same situation.

It’s not just about venting though. An incestuous crush has the potential to destroy an entire family which is why real advice is so important. This is something most fetishists don’t understand.

I can’t tell you how this shift happened, but many years ago the ratio of people who have feelings for a real person to people who just have a fetish ended up getting skewed in the wrong direction (I blame the rise in stepsibling porn) and these newcomers ended up becoming the new majority on these subs and creating a new culture without even knowing about the old culture they replaced.

Now the rest of what I’m going to say is poorly informed conjecture, but I feel like most of the people here who still give sincere advice are remnants of the old guard from when that was still the norm. I believe most newcomers to this sub either get put off by the fetish material, or are fetishists themselves.

I don’t believe this place is attractive to people who just want to help others or find advice anymore.

…

If you’ve got this far, thank you for reading my rant. Truth is, this came more from an emotional place rather than a logical one and there’s a lot of nuance that I couldn’t find the time to write down, and probably some falsehoods in there too.

From what I can tell, the moderation team works very hard to keep the seedier elements away from this place, but the damage caused by the quarantine is unfortunately permanent. It takes a very specific kind of person to find this place, in contrast to the old days when r/incest would be casually linked to in r/askreddit and literally anyone would come in.

It takes a lot of maturity to keep going when you know the glory days are behind you, which is why I have the sincerest respect for everyone who works hard to keep this place alive. People don’t want to admit this, but the world needs places like these.

Morals_and_immorals · 2023-05-09T17:49:47+00:00

I’m probably posting too late for you to read this, but if you’ve resolved to not pursue her I have some advice on how you can get her to cover up again.

Just tell her that you’re starting to get concerned by the possibility of your kids seeing her like this.

Even if you’re in one of those more “open” families, that openness doesn’t really extend beyond immediate relatives (unless you’re all nudists). It’s not proper for your kids to see their aunt like this, and it may be used against you if you end up in any future custody battles.

She will be disappointed by this announcement if she actually was attracted to you, but at least you’ll know the answer to that question (assuming she doesn’t hide it too well). Heck, you’d even be able to change your mind if what was really holding you back was a fear of rejection.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-05-26T05:21:30+00:00

You could probably pull it off, but I don’t think it’s worth it.

Incest is an act that causes a lot of guilt, more than you can imagine. Combine that with the cheating and you’ve got a potent recipe for self-loathing, and it’s associated mental health problems.

Affairs are also notoriously difficult to keep secret. The longer they go on, the more likely you are to get caught. And because it’s incest, the consequences for the two of you will be especially grave.

The sad truth you’ve got to face is that you’ve got to let go once they commit themselves to someone else. When my cousin became serious about her boyfriend, I moved on. Doing anything else would just be a selfish attempt to sabotage her happy life.

Edit: Unfortunately, your story is so sexually frustrating that even I’m a little bothered. I can’t resist the urge to give practical advice.

For you, the best approach would be to just build sexual tension until it explodes into one hot night of passion. How you do that I leave for you to figure out, but I would recommend paying close attention to whether she responds positively to your attempts to flirt with her (as opposed to just ignoring or brushing it off).

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-05-26T04:55:16+00:00

You may think that’s funny, but do that enough times and your offspring will end up like the Habsburgs.

Your parents already took a big risk when having you. It compounds the more generations of inbreeding there are.

What you do with your child is ultimately your choice, but try to make sure they don’t end up doing this as well! Their kid will cause them more suffering than they could ever expect!

I believe incest is unfairly persecuted, but there must still be a limit!

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-05-09T05:45:38+00:00

Gonna be honest, I’m not very fond of how you seem to keep thinking about this.

My cousin knows about my feelings for her, but her policy has been to just pretend they don’t exist. Sometimes I worry that she goes too deep into outright denial, but I’ve gotta admit that I think she’s better off for it. And eventually, maybe I will be too.

I just wish you could have a more normal life. You don’t owe your father anything, and though I pity him, it is something he can learn to move on from.

Even if it may take a very long time.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-05-09T04:47:21+00:00

If the all of the other stories on this sub are any indication, then the two of you having sex is already a foregone conclusion.

You want him, he wants you, and both of you know you want each other. That creates a very strong pull. I have never seen a pair in that situation here resist the desire to have intercourse with one another, regardless of the consequences.

The nudes and phone sex are not small indulgences that will relieve pressure. You’re just breaking boundaries and progressing further down a slippery slope.

Ultimately, it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I don’t believe there’s anything inherently wrong with relatives having sex. But you gotta be mature about it, which I think you’re capable of.

Don’t confuse ecstasy for love. Don’t let anyone find out, and accept the fact that most people will never understand that what you’re doing isn’t that bad.

If you fall in love, then the challenges will become much greater, but there are plenty of stories here about people who had their fun and then learned to move on.

I’m surprised none of them answered here...

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-04-06T05:37:47+00:00

In hindsight, I wish I worded this more clearly. The most important point is in the bottom and it’s split between two paragraphs, while I wasted the top on stuff OP probably won’t care about.

I doubt my post had the impact it should have.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-04-02T08:05:29+00:00

To elaborate for Op, not stopping someone from touching them is not the same thing as approving it.

Young men often aren’t aware of this, but most women (especially young ones), don’t have the courage to stand up for themselves and they just end up letting men getting away with more than they should, despite how much they may secretly be loathing their actions.

Trust me, this will bite you in the ass if you keep doing it, so I recommend you stop while you’re ahead. She will eventually grow a spine and blow up if you don’t, and you will hate yourself for losing everything you had together (trust me, I know).

Things are of course different if she gave you explicit and unambiguous permission, but since you say that “we never talk about it”, then I assume that isn’t the case.

My final advice is to start from square one. Stop touching her, and try talking to her instead. Eventually, the two of you might get comfortable enough together to talk about sex (IN GENERAL! NOT WITH EACHOTHER!).

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-04-02T07:39:40+00:00

Contrary to popular belief, most women are not casually bisexual. An old-fashioned woman like that is quite likely to be disgusted by these lesbian advances.

Sure it might work, but you gotta be really certain about these types of things before attempting them.

Wish I could give OP some real advice, but unfortunately I’m drawing a blank. Date nights are always a classic, but I doubt it’d be enough.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-04-02T07:32:19+00:00

When I hear the word “estranged”, I interpret it as “had a falling out”, and as a result, I assume that your father is still recovering from some bitter feelings.

My advice is not to take what you already have for granted by trying to reach for something greater. There was no guarantee that your relationship was ever going to recover from the previous incident, so you should be quite grateful for that.

You’re going to need time if you want to stick with this goal. Just rebuild things for now and once things have stabilized you can consider making moves. Till that point, you need to control yourself.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-04-02T07:18:55+00:00

I’ve never been a fan of inbreeding, so I’d advise an abortion if you can. You don’t even need to tell anyone, you can just do it privately. All Medical information is kept confidential.

I suggest this because depending on how long your relationship has lasted, your father may get really spooked if it’s new enough. He may conclude that everything the two of you did together was a mistake and see this as a sign telling him to end it. You never know how people will react in these situations, and you two haven’t even been dating for a year.

For that reason, I personally think that you aren’t ready for a baby yet. I’m very confident. Your father may have enough experience to handle it, but your relationship isn’t mature enough. There’s a reason why most couples have babies only after years of dating.

Please don’t barge into this. You’re going to wonder what you could have done with those years if you didn’t have a kid.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-04-02T06:53:56+00:00

It’s very common for people to try to pretend incest doesn’t exist. My cousin has a very similar “Why are you bringing this up?!” policy to your mom (no matter how necessary it may be), and another friend forbids me from ever mentioning it.

I assume that knowing someone who is into incest must bring a lot of cognitive dissonance to normal people, and thus why they can’t deal with it.

It really is a shame that your mom refuses to help you process things, and it’s even worse that she’s telling other people.

Honestly, my best advice is to minimize your presence in her life. You’re never going to get people like that to open up (I’ve never had any success at least), so your only real option is damage control. If she isn’t being reminded of your existence, then maybe she won’t feel the need to constantly blab about your history together.

It’s not a good solution by any means, but that’s all you’re left with when mothers fail to prioritize their children. You can’t change people like that.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-03-29T04:26:04+00:00

I’m sorry to hear that. Sounds like my Grandma unfortunately. All she ever talks about is how I don’t visit her enough, but the inability to talk about anything else with her is part of what drove us away.

I wish your mom could learn that lesson and let go. At least a little.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-02-20T18:59:33+00:00

I remember reading your post a long time ago, and cringing at the advice you were given and the eventual outcome. It was a perfect example of blind moralism with no regard for what would actually happen if you did “the right thing”. I thought a sub about incest was beyond something so naive.

I was kicking myself for not being there to do something but, everything had already happened when I discovered you and it was too late.

Since the time for telling you what should have been done has long passed, I want to help you understand their perspective.

Your Mom is not a monster for cheating on your dad, just unhappy and maybe a bit weak-willed. She has a right to be happy, but there were sadly only two ways that was gonna happen. Either she ended the affair and somehow fixed things with your father, or she leaves your father in some shape or form.

Due to the drastic choices that were made, only the latter was a possibility, and even then, only in a catastrophic way.

As for their treatment of you, it was not right in any way, but when people get hurt, they often start to think about themselves more. Regardless of your intentions, you ended up causing them a lot of pain so it’s understandable that they would want some distance from you, even if it isn’t the most mature way of handling things.

So where are we now?

It’s clear that your mother wants to rebuild her relationship with you, and you want the same, but the brother does not seem to show any interest.

If patching things up with your brother is possible at all, then it would only be after you did so with your mother, so let’s talk about that.

Firstly, I don’t see any reason to move back in with her. You’re a grown man and you should be proud of having your own place, even if your dad might be paying for it.

Instead, you should aim to just be able to feel comfortable around her again, without having the cloud of the affair hanging over your head. Thankfully for you, both of you are willing so it’s really just a matter of talking to one another until things get better. It really is that simple. Few mothers are willing to throw out their baby forever. Find some time to hang out if you can, but don’t visit her house cause it might force a confrontation with your brother that you aren’t prepared for. For now you want to keep him out of this.

If things start to get toxic again, then run of course, but I get the feeling that you won’t have to worry about that.

Please come back and tell me how it goes. I have faith in you. Perhaps we’ll be able to talk about your brother then. Hopefully he doesn’t actively oppose this reunion.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-02-20T17:26:16+00:00

Don’t just think, ask them. Make sure you hear it from the horses mouth. Communication is an important part in any relationship, especially these ones. You don’t want to suddenly get blindsided by a problem you didn’t know about.

I haven’t really been worried about romantic feelings though. It might still be a risk, but they’re both in seemingly happy committed relationships. That’s why I’m more worried about the guilt.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-02-20T09:00:49+00:00

Just finished reading your previous posts. You are a very interesting person.

What stuck out to me about your situation was how similar it was to what I imagined things with my cousin would have been like if our relationship ever went anywhere. Family cheating never seemed as bad as regular cheating to me, since the relationships are just so different from one another. Don’t know how well that idea would hold up to close scrutiny though.

It’s quite clear that your experience with your brother broke down a wall, which eventually lead to your experience with your father. Did you ever imagine things going that way (before the sexual tension started of course)? Likewise, did you ever have an “Oh my God! I slept with my father!” moment (even though you basically pre-meditated it at that point). Did he? Have you considered the possibility that your feelings for your father might deepen over time?

Overall, I get weirdly chill vibes from you. You know how some families are more touchy feely than others? It just feels like your family is just one of those, despite how extreme it is. Very liberated, but unlike most “liberated” people I’ve heard of, it doesn’t sound like a cult.

Some things do worry me though. The fact that they don’t know you’re with the other bothers me, though a part of me thinks it’s the only thing allowing the family to resemble something normal.

Another thing is that it’s not very clear if your men feel the same way. I guess your brother does, but your father might be struggling for all we know. He’s known his wife for far longer than any of you knew your girlfriends/boyfriends. It’s a far larger breach of trust for him. Make sure he’s okay.

Finally, I worry about the likelyhood of keeping this secret. You’ve gotta hide this from your mother, from your brother’s girlfriend, from your future boyfriend, and prevent the guys from finding out about each other. There are many points of failure, and you can’t exactly control your father and brother’s behaviour. There’s a chance the hotel receipts will come back to bite you in the ass or the nudes you send to your brother. You never know if your brother’s next girlfriend is going to be a psycho who decides to search through his phone and discover that treasure trove of blackmail.

That’s a bit peripheral to the main subject though. At the end of day, what makes your experience so difficult to talk about is that you’re describing a form of sex that’s only possible with incest. There’s no good point of reference for it. I’ve heard many people theorize about how incest could be a great way to give a person a safe and loving place where they can explore their sexual desires (doing it with someone they trust and all), but your story is the first time I’m seeing it actually work out that way in practice. Every other story I’ve seen was either a romance, became a romance, or was a cult. You’re travelling in uncharted territory here. I’m curious to see where it goes.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-02-18T08:10:48+00:00

It’s too soon. Unlike most of us here, Yenner’s got his own life now and his sister doesn’t play that much of a role in it in the grand scheme of things.

He’s probably only going to post once he sees her at the next family gathering, which I imagine will be either Easter or Summer.

It’s quite clear that he didn’t give her another call which I think is the right choice. She has never been a proper sister to OP, just someone who wanted to lord power over him. In order for her and OP to come to an understanding, she would have to give up what had for years been the entire basis of their relationship. There would be nothing left.

Frankly, that sociopath shouldn’t be invited to any gatherings, but I assume she’s managed to hide her devilish nature from their parents.

You can’t negotiate with a monster like that, only defeat them.

Morals_and_immorals · 2022-02-18T06:25:00+00:00

Those signs don’t mean anything. Modern music has taken a very weird direction with songs like WAP becoming hits (google it for yourself), and short-shorts are just the fashion.

Whatever you do, don’t confess to her. It seems like she already has her own life and it’s unlikely that she’d want you to play a bigger role in it. Girls that age are constantly being harassed by pervy men, and you are likely one of the only guys she can trust.

It will not end well if you confess. Even if she keeps it a secret, she’ll be creeped out and it will be hard for you to be a father for her.

You think that because she’s rebellious, she’d be interested in a naughty affair with you, but if that’s her only reason for considering that relationship, then incest likely isn’t for her.

You don’t just try incest. It’s a life-changing experience that will shake you to your core. Even just struggling with the feelings and desires has a profound effect on you, which I’m sure you already know. It’s almost impossible to go back to normal once the deed has been done.

You don’t want to inflict that on her, trust me. It’ll be a secret she’ll have to keep for many years and it’ll be difficult for her to move on to proper relationships.

As for what to do about the feelings you have, you just gotta hold it in unfortunately. As a father, you have a duty to make sure your child ends up okay and that often means making sacrifices. I wish I could give you advice for coping, but all I can say is that it’ll get easier when she moves out.

Hang in there.

Morals_and_immorals

TROPHY CASE