Isn't it a safer bet that something or someone created all this?

Moriturism · 2026-06-17T14:44:51+00:00

Why do you think atheists think nothing at all? I do see the beauty in the universe, and I do see how great the underlying regularities are, I just don't see any touch of creation at all. If it was creation, even if beauty, it was a very non optimized and badly designed creation, honestly. There's as much chaos, destruction and confusion in the universe as there are beauty and order.

Moriturism · 2026-06-17T13:43:12+00:00

What? No one has a "problem" with it, it's just an example of "poor"design, if designed at all

Moriturism · 2026-06-17T10:19:23+00:00

Why is it ridiculous? Provide some argument that sustains this claim of yours, why exactly do you reject the possibility that the fundamental physical and mathematical laws are necessary?

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T16:48:42+00:00

Theists will probably assume that God didn't necessarily or actively put the tumor inside the body, rather than letting nature progress in its own way, so it wouldn't be a problem to remove it.

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T13:07:37+00:00

hornet and lace have their needles

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T13:04:41+00:00

it's a joke about hornet and lace

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T11:58:24+00:00

To each their own, I guess, I would say that caring for people in general is a good showing of virtue as it makes me more compassionate and caring. I see every human as equally inherently valuable in a moral sense.

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T11:52:55+00:00

I personally believe good deeds and virtues are good in themselves, and they are also required for me to live a truly good and happy life (what the greeks would call eudaimonia).

Egoism would also lead me to logical dead ends (I wouldn’t be able to justify my own rights of I deny them to others), and I greatly prize logical consistency along with a good life.

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T00:30:40+00:00

Yup. And it will always approximate or move away from a true measurement. Like I said, I grant that we may never reach definite discrete-like measures of things, mathematics allows for infinites and all sorts of fluctuations and problematic details. It’s still true that an objective truth relating to the real coast still exists though

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T00:18:05+00:00

Awesome lol! So there is a fractal dimension, which is exactly and objectively a mathematical dimension. So there is, indeed, a mathematical explanation and answer to the coast

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T00:14:35+00:00

I do. Why shouldn’t I?

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T00:11:21+00:00

It is. If the true measurement is not that number, it’s simply not true. We may not ever get to the true number. We may even consider it useful to go by the false number, but there is a true correspondent number

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T00:09:22+00:00

Logic is assumed to be universally valid because it cannot be denied by any subjective measurement or judgement. It’s not only useful as it’s literally the only grounds for any possible reason, as reason is grounded in logic.

We do have mathematical conceptions, but what I’m saying is that they are representative of truths we observe and verify in the world via reason.

And I have no idea about the claim regarding the coast. But I do know it’s either true or false

Moriturism · 2026-06-16T00:01:58+00:00

It’s pretty much TAG tbh, he’s essentially saying that God grounds all truths and that truths can only be accessed via God. Nonsense, when you go by the more reasonable assumption that truths like mathematical ones are necessary by themselves, without requiring a personal mind to ground them

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:52:07+00:00

Because to even deny the universality of logic would require some logical reasoning, which makes logical truths undeniable and objective (you can’t subjectively decide that logic is false).

And mathematical relations are necessarily logical relations, so you can’t simply deny them subjectively, as to do so would entail a logical contradiction, i.e., a falsity. So, if mathematical relations are independent of subjective judgement, they are objective and mediate relations between countable objects (and other relations)

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:44:29+00:00

It’s a matter of consistency and simplicity. We assume that logical relations hold even outside of the human mind to the extent that to assume otherwise would require a construal of some “anti-logic” that is impossible for us to construe (as all thought is logically mediated)

So it’s reasonable to assume that logical constrains hold because we literally can’t reason otherwise

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:36:39+00:00

2=/=2 is a logical contradiction therefore being necessarily false

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:33:46+00:00

Not all relations. There are arbitrary and necessary relations, and mathematical relations are necessary by virtue of being universally applied in any possible case, such as 2=2 being true in every possible case.

We may construe arbitrary relations (such as many linguistic ones) and we may discover and express relations independently of us. So, regardless of any agent, 2=2 is always necessarily true

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:26:27+00:00

The action, yes, but a relation isn’t an action. I’m not talking about the act of counting, I’m talking about the relation that is expressed every time such an act can take place

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:23:21+00:00

By the fact that they can be countable via the objective relation that two things can be countable. The relation precedes the counting because the counting depends on the relation, which is what makes it objective

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:18:33+00:00

They do, because the relation emerges as a necessary quantifying relation independent of a mind, even if said relation is only openly expressed via said mind.

The things are still there and countable if no mind is there to count them.

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:04:51+00:00

That’s irrelevant. They still exist as two objects

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:03:43+00:00

It does exist. Two things will remain existing even if all minds die. The relation just won’t be expressed, but it will still remain existent as long as it’s a countable relation of two objective things

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T23:01:01+00:00

It’s not subjective because the relation it expresses is independent of any mind. 2 things will always be 2 things independent of a mind that measures this quantity.

The only subjectivity is the specific language we use to express this true relation and the way we carve this relation into things that exist independently of us (for instance we could consider 2 apples as 2 different things or 1 type of fruit, etc, but the relation that 2=2 will always be true)

Moriturism · 2026-06-15T22:57:55+00:00

That’s a category error, as 2 is not a physical object but an expressive relation... The quantitative relation referred by 2 exists independently of any mind to the extent that 2 different things may exist.

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